LNER/EMR + Connections using Elizabeth Line

[DeeGee]

I've just put together an itinerary for November with some splits, travelling between Grimsby and Heathrow.

I have a query involving the long distance advance tickets, particularly the + Connections part.

Outward is Doncaster to Hayes and Harlington, LNER Advance.

"Only valid on booked London North Eastern Railway services and required connecting services."

The itinerary requires a change at Stevenage onto Thameslink to Farringdon and thence on the Elizabeth Line onto Hayes.

To what extent am I obligated onto that particular route? The only reserved part is DON-SVG. I figure that if I can make an earlier connection, that's fine? What I'm wondering is whether I can take an alternative route using non-reservable trains to Hayes and Harlington? Could I use the Underground (I'm presuming that this wouldn't necessarily make the journey any quicker, though?)

Similarly, my return (Hayes and Harlington to Sheffield, EMR Advance Single) involves an unreserved trip from Hayes and Harlington to St Pancras via Farringdon, to pick up the EMR service to Sheffield. The EMR train is reserved, and is booked as an EMR +connections advance.

"Only valid on booked EMR services and required connecting services."

Can I use any unreserved service to do the Hayes-STP bit? If I'm through security nice and early, for instance, can I go straight to STP?

 

[island]

I've just put together an itinerary for November with some splits, travelling between Grimsby and Heathrow.

I have a query involving the long distance advance tickets, particularly the + Connections part.

Outward is Doncaster to Hayes and Harlington, LNER Advance.

"Only valid on booked London North Eastern Railway services and required connecting services."

The itinerary requires a change at Stevenage onto Thameslink to Farringdon and thence on the Elizabeth Line onto Hayes.

To what extent am I obligated onto that particular route?

You’re obligated to use all the reserved trains, but may take a different route involving non-reservable trains to your destination as long as you don’t break your journey.

The only reserved part is DON-SVG. I figure that if I can make an earlier connection, that's fine?

Yes.

What I'm wondering is whether I can take an alternative route using non-reservable trains to Hayes and Harlington?

Yes.

Could I use the Underground (I'm presuming that this wouldn't necessarily make the journey any quicker, though?)

Yes, if the ticket has the Maltese Cross marker, which I assume it does.

Similarly, my return (Hayes and Harlington to Sheffield, EMR Advance Single) involves an unreserved trip from Hayes and Harlington to St Pancras via Farringdon, to pick up the EMR service to Sheffield. The EMR train is reserved, and is booked as an EMR +connections advance.

"Only valid on booked EMR services and required connecting services."

Can I use any unreserved service to do the Hayes-STP bit?

Yes.

If I'm through security nice and early, for instance, can I go straight to STP?

I am not clear where you would be going “through security” on the described journey, but you can travel on any train that day from Hayes & Harlington, as long as you do not break your journey.

 

[DeeGee]

I am not clear where you would be going “through security” on the described journey, but you can travel on any train that day from Hayes & Harlington, as long as you do not break your journey.

Apologies. I'm travelling from Heathrow, and I meant "Immigration" and "Baggage Return", rather than "Security".

Basically, if I'm landside at Heathrow earlier than planned, I can make my own way to STP to wait there for my "big" train.

 

[Hadders]

Apologies. I'm travelling from Heathrow, and I meant "Immigration" and "Baggage Return", rather than "Security".

Basically, if I'm landside at Heathrow earlier than planned, I can make my own way to STP to wait there for my "big" train.

Yes, that is absolutely fine.

 

[Watershed]

In theory, you're obliged to take the exact trains specified in your itinerary, including for trains without reservations (note that many Thameslink services are now reservable). The only bit where you have flexibility is in any fixed links in the itinerary (i.e. the Underground, DLR, walking etc.) where obviously no specific train departure time will be specified.

In practice, unless the non-reservable trains are specified on your ticket - which is unlikely to be the case with most ToD tickets - you will get away with taking reasonable alternative services. Similarly, I can't imagine most RPIs on Thameslink or the Elizabeth line would really know the exact rules on this topic (or most other topics, for that matter...). But you are less likely to get away with taking a reservable service for the non-reserved sections of your journey, since this is likely to make clear to any RPI/conductor etc. that you're not following your booked itinerary.

 

[DeeGee]

I've picked the tickets up. There's a Maltese cross.

However, on the outbound (Doncaster to Hayes and Harlington), I've got a counted place reservation on the Thameslink to Farringdon. No reservation whatsoever on the Lizzy Line.

I don't have any such restriction on the return (Hayes and Harlington to Sheffield), though.

I don't imagine that, given that the changing point is Farringdon, that there's be any chance of leaving the station prior to my Elizabeth Line leg, is there?

 

[island]

I've picked the tickets up. There's a Maltese cross.

However, on the outbound (Doncaster to Hayes and Harlington), I've got a counted place reservation on the Thameslink to Farringdon. No reservation whatsoever on the Lizzy Line.

I don't have any such restriction on the return (Hayes and Harlington to Sheffield), though.

I don't imagine that, given that the changing point is Farringdon, that there's be any chance of leaving the station prior to my Elizabeth Line leg, is there?

An advance ticket is not valid to break your journey (leave a station) part way through, other than when doing so is necessary to make a connection or stay overnight, or you have been instructed to do so by staff.

What precisely is it you're trying to achieve?

 

[DeeGee]

Nothing that can't wait. Just thinking of food/drink/PNB.

If I can't leave the station, then I can't leave the station.

 

[island]

Nothing that can't wait. Just thinking of food/drink/PNB.

If I can't leave the station, then I can't leave the station.

Just take the first available Thameslink to St Pancras, plenty of outlets and free loos there. Nobody will bat an eyelid about you being early on the one-stop trip.

 

[Hadders]

It’s legitimate to exit at Farringdon because there are two separate gatelines and if you follow the signs from the Elizabeth Line to the Underground they direct you out and back in.

While a break of journey isn’t allowed popping to the Sainsbury’s Local across the road isn’t going to be a problem.