LNER Kings Cross to Leeds services

[Gaz55]

Hi guys

Just been having a quick look on the LNER timetable, It showed that a majority of London to Leeds services don't seem to be being run by Azuma's. Does anyone know why, or if this is actually the case?

 

[yorksrob]

I understand that there's a plan to use the mk 4's on Leeds - London services for a few years yet !

 

[Gaz55]

Thanks for the reply. I remember reading somewhere that the route would be primarily used by Mk 4's, I was surprised by how many of the services are being run right now by Mk 4's, given the limited numbers.

 

[yorksrob]

Before lockdown, most seemed to have been turned over to Azumas, so I don't know whether they've reshuffled things since then.

Perhaps the mk4's are the new, old order

 

[westv]

Before lockdown, most seemed to have been turned over to Azumas, so I don't know whether they've reshuffled things since then.

That's what I remember too.

 

[Gaz55]

Perhaps the mk4's are the new, old order
[/QUOTE]
Not an unwelcome development , though I had got used to new stock on the route.

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps the mk4's are the new, old order

Not an unwelcome development , though I had got used to new stock on the route.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'd been getting used to them as well. And to be fair, I don't find the Azumas bad trains as a passenger, although the seats could obviously be softer (their family members have been a boon on trans-pennine) - but it will be nice to have the mk4's back for a bit longer !

 

[43094]

The significant majority are being (and will be) run by the Azuma fleet.

There are (and will be) a small number of services still diagrammed for the MK4 fleet.

 

[Tetchytyke]

LNER always intended to keep a handful of MkIVs, and I think the current plan is to keep them on the Leeds and York semi-fasts.

I imagine Covid has thrown everything in the air. Maybe for now its cheaper to run the MkIVs than pay Hitachi for Azuma.

 

[800001]

LNER always intended to keep a handful of MkIVs, and I think the current plan is to keep them on the Leeds and York semi-fasts.

I imagine Covid has thrown everything in the air. Maybe for now its cheaper to run the MkIVs than pay Hitachi for Azuma.

Confirmed internally at lner today that from 4th or 11th September Mk4s will be only working Leeds/York services.

 

[rebmcr]

Confirmed internally at lner today that from 4th or 11th September Mk4s will be only working Leeds/York services.

Alongside Azumas, or alone?

 

[4REP]

Alongside Azumas, or alone?

With the exception of Harrogate services mostly the rest will be even Bradford FSQ/Skipton

 

[Fuzzytop]

Would have surely thought Skipton unlikely, now that's splitting off to form the Huddersfield?

I'm a regular on Leeds services so would be very happy to have the Mk4s back, even if from a passenger perspective they appear more suited to Edinburgh fasts ...

 

[rebmcr]

With the exception of Harrogate services mostly the rest will be even Bradford FSQ/Skipton

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[4REP]

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

225 stock can't work the Harrogate services as its not electrified but they can go to Bradford/Skipton on the Leeds extensions.
So A London to Leeds service that goes beyond Leeds to Bradford/Skipton could be a 225 and a bi mode Azuma would have to work London/Leeds to Harrogate.

 

[D365]

I imagine Covid has thrown everything in the air. Maybe for now its cheaper to run the MkIVs than pay Hitachi for Azuma.

They might just be rotating the trains so that each rake/unit gets a fair amount of mileage.

 

[greyman42]

LNER always intended to keep a handful of MkIVs, and I think the current plan is to keep them on the Leeds and York semi-fasts.

Do you mean the York stoppers?

 

[800001]

Alongside Azumas, or alone?

Alongside Azumas

 

[800001]

Do you mean the York stoppers?

Yes it will be the York Terminators

 

[Kieran1990]

If they are only keeping around 10 sets it won’t be enough to cover Leeds and York turns plus maintenance.
Leeds 12 diagrams include Harrogate extensions
York stoppers requires 3. So I feel plenty of Azuma’s will still pop up fairly often

 

[Tetchytyke]

Do you mean the York stoppers?

Yeah, the York terminators that stop pretty much everywhere north of Peterborough.

 

[Starmill]

225 stock can't work the Harrogate services as its not electrified but they can go to Bradford/Skipton on the Leeds extensions.
So A London to Leeds service that goes beyond Leeds to Bradford/Skipton could be a 225 and a bi mode Azuma would have to work London/Leeds to Harrogate.

An IC225 cannot work to Huddersfield for the same reason it cannot work to Harrogate. This makes it unlikely that it would work the Skipton service.

 

[Gaz55]

Presumably, the Mk4s will be run as full length sets?

 

[IanXC]

An IC225 cannot work to Huddersfield for the same reason it cannot work to Harrogate. This makes it unlikely that it would work the *northbound* Skipton service.

Slight clarification. Theres only portion working proposed on the northbound Skipton/Huddersfield as far as I know.

 

[_toommm_]

Presumably, the Mk4s will be run as full length sets?

It'll be 7 coaches so they can keep up to the Azuma timings.

 

[clagmonster]

LNER always intended to keep a handful of MkIVs, and I think the current plan is to keep them on the Leeds and York semi-fasts.

I imagine Covid has thrown everything in the air. Maybe for now its cheaper to run the MkIVs than pay Hitachi for Azuma.

I think there was a spell when the plan was to withdraw 91s and mark 4s with increased 5 car running in Dec 2021. Thankfully sense has prevailed and the plan has now reverted to retaining some hauled sets with minimal use of 5 car 800/801s.

I understand that Hitachi are paid whether the units are used or not, both on the ECML and for the original IET order on the Western. Hitachi also maintain the hauled sets under contract - I have no idea what the payment arrangements are for that. I imagine though that even if there are enough units to run the temporary timetable, there will have been a desire to have some hauled diagrams both to keep the locos and stock warm and to keep the traincrew competent on them.

 

[4REP]

An IC225 cannot work to Huddersfield for the same reason it cannot work to Harrogate. This makes it unlikely that it would work the Skipton service.

Does the Huddersfield link up with the Skipton service at Leeds then with 2 5 car azumas?

 

[Fuzzytop]

Does the Huddersfield link up with the Skipton service at Leeds then with 2 5 car azumas?

I believe that's the intention once things get going again, as it was in the May timetable change - the 1803 from London on Mon-Sat to have portions for Skipton and Huddersfield, dividing at Leeds.

Skipton and Huddersfield are still to be separate services southbound to London. I believe the leg from Huddersfield to Leeds is to be a 5-car 800, joining in Leeds to another 5-car that's fresh from the depot.

The diagram posted in another thread for the new timetable show the Huddersfield service spurring off the new service via Hambleton Jn to Harrogate, so perhaps that's the plan long term.

 

[YorksLad12]

As I read it, the 225s will run London-Leeds and London-Leeds-Bradford FS 'regular' services, while the Azumas will run the London-Leeds-Harrogate 'regular' service, and the peak-time extensions to Huddersfield, Harrogate, Skipton.

 

[Class 170101]

225 stock can't work the Harrogate services as its not electrified but they can go to Bradford/Skipton on the Leeds extensions.
So A London to Leeds service that goes beyond Leeds to Bradford/Skipton could be a 225 and a bi mode Azuma would have to work London/Leeds to Harrogate.

I doubt they will go to Skipton either as certain coaches have to be locked out for Skipton working as I recall reading somewhere on this board previously.