LNER missed connection with two separate tickets

[Denzo]

I’m planning to take the train from Edinburgh to London King’s Cross next month and bought an advance single ticket for the journey. In order to get to Edinburgh I need to take a local ScotRail train.

I absent mindedly just bought a ticket from Edinburgh to London rather than buying a single ticket from my local station (Falkirk High)

Am I right in saying if the ScotRail train is late causing me to miss my connection, I’m screwed?

 

[yorkie]

I’m planning to take the train from Edinburgh to London King’s Cross next month and bought an advance single ticket for the journey. In order to get to Edinburgh I need to take a local ScotRail train.

I absent mindedly just bought a ticket from Edinburgh to London rather than buying a single ticket from my local station (Falkirk High)

Am I right in saying if the ScotRail train is late causing me to miss my connection, I’m screwed?

You may make one journey using two or more tickets.

You don't have to buy the tickets from the same retailer and/or at the same time.

Just check that it's a valid itinerary; I would obtain an itinerary for the through journey with NRE and print/download a copy of that, and then book the additional ticket (ideally with the same retailer but this is not essential).

Split ticketing is perfectly legitimate and the forum now has a website (through a partnership with Trainsplit) which will look at whether it is cheaper to "split" and issue tickets accordingly; you would get one itinerary with one PDF (the PDF would consist of a page per ticket) for the entire journey, which makes any claims in the event of a delay occuring very easy indeed. But anyone can do split ticketing themselves and it still counts as one journey, with all the protections still in place, providing sufficient interchange time is allowed at any interchange points.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Minimum connection time at Edinburgh Waverley is 10 minutes. Departures for London Kings Cross leave from a variety of platforms, so I'd be inclined to avoid an overly tight connection when travelling in from Falkirk High.

 

[yorkie]

Minimum connection time at Edinburgh Waverley is 10 minutes. Departures for London Kings Cross leave from a variety of platforms, so I'd be inclined to avoid an overly tight connection when travelling in from Falkirk High.

Agreed.

Although 10 minutes is absolutely fine contractually, if the arrival time into London is important to the passenger, who may want to minimise the chance of missing the connection, additional interchange time can be selected by either using National Rail Enquiries or any of the Trainsplit sites (such as the forum's site).

On the forum's site this is done by specifying advanced options, then under 'change at', type EDB and then type in the required additional interchange time (which will be added to the existing 10 minute minimum).

 

[danm14]

To simplify the above:

If the train you choose to travel from Falkirk High on is scheduled to arrive at Edinburgh 10 minutes or more before the train is due to depart, you have the same rights as if you had a through ticket, including Delay Repay compensation.

If the train you choose to travel from Falkirk High on is scheduled to arrive at Edinburgh less than 10 minutes before the train to London is due to depart, it's your own tough luck.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I’m planning to take the train from Edinburgh to London King’s Cross next month and bought an advance single ticket for the journey. In order to get to Edinburgh I need to take a local ScotRail train.

I absent mindedly just bought a ticket from Edinburgh to London rather than buying a single ticket from my local station (Falkirk High)

Am I right in saying if the ScotRail train is late causing me to miss my connection, I’m screwed?

You’d be correct when using two airlines but fortunately so far that hasn’t made it to the rails

 

[Denzo]

Minimum connection time at Edinburgh Waverley is 10 minutes. Departures for London Kings Cross leave from a variety of platforms, so I'd be inclined to avoid an overly tight connection when travelling in from Falkirk High.

The connection time is 24 minutes. My train is due to get into Edinburgh Waverley at 17.06 and then the LNER train leaves at 17.30

My question is basically if the ScotRail rail is heavily delayed or cancelled, will I be allowed to jump on the next London bound train despite the fact that my ticket is an advanced one.


Seems like I’m in the clear.

 

[danm14]

The connection time is 24 minutes. My train is due to get into Edinburgh Waverley at 17.06 and then the LNER train leaves at 17.30

My question is basically if the ScotRail rail is heavily delayed or cancelled, will I be allowed to jump on the next London bound train despite the fact that my ticket is an advanced one.


Seems like I’m in the clear.

Yes, you will - and you'll be able to claim Delay Repay compensation just as you would be with a single through ticket.

However, your right is to take the next LNER train, not the next train full stop.

 

[island]

You shouldn't have a problem in that you're entitled to make a journey this way according to railway documentation. You may find railway staff put obstacles in your way and it's potentially possible you may find yourself having to purchase a new ticket and look to claim the amount back later. So if you'd be unable to front up the £84 for a new ticket on the day, or didn't want to risk having to deal with an obstructive LNER train manager, then you may wish to decide, for your convenience, to take an earlier train in from Falkirk.

Also, please bear in mind that 17:30 is the last LNER train from Edinburgh to London on certain days, so there may not be a next LNER train to take.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Also, please bear in mind that 17:30 is the last LNER train from Edinburgh to London on certain days, so there may not be a next LNER train to take.

But of course if that happens, the railway (i.e. any TOC) is obliged to get OP to London regardless - in practice, this could involve (for example, next Saturday) allowing OP to travel on the 17:56 Lumo service to London King’s Cross instead.

 

[AlbertBeale]

But of course if that happens, the railway (i.e. any TOC) is obliged to get OP to London regardless - in practice, this could involve (for example, next Saturday) allowing OP to travel on the 17:56 Lumo service to London King’s Cross instead.

Does this "any TOC must help of you'd otherwise be stranded" rule apply to an Open Access service like Lumo, or are they a law unto themselves even in this situation?

 

[185143]

Does this "any TOC must help of you'd otherwise be stranded" rule apply to an Open Access service like Lumo, or are they a law unto themselves even in this situation?

I suspect the fact that there was a recent thread about someone being booted off a Lumo train at Doncaster and then subsequently being met with BTP at King's Cross, and issued subsequently with an Unpaid Fares Notice. This was despite it being an RMT strike day and them having valid tickets for a cancelled LNER service, goes a long way to answer that point!

 

[methethpropbut]

If I remember correctly - another issue is that Edinburgh has separate gatelines between the west-facing bays that the Falkirks use, and the rest of the station which LNER use, so there is a risk of the first ticket being swallowed if you put it through a barrier. In case of delays it may be prudent to get staff to let you out and retain your Falkirk - Edinburgh ticket so you have evidence of the first part of the journey.

 

[3rd rail land]

If I remember correctly - another issue is that Edinburgh has separate gatelines between the west-facing bays that the Falkirks use, and the rest of the station which LNER use, so there is a risk of the first ticket being swallowed if you put it through a barrier. In case of delays it may be prudent to get staff to let you out and retain your Falkirk - Edinburgh ticket so you have evidence of the first part of the journey.

I was delayed travelling from Dunblane - London, starting short at Stirling due to cancellations, and didn't retain my Dunblane - Edinburgh ticket. Scotrail accepted my delay repay claim without question. I think I uploaded the itinerary I received when I booked the tickets for the journey.

 

[Haywain]

Does this "any TOC must help of you'd otherwise be stranded" rule apply to an Open Access service like Lumo, or are they a law unto themselves even in this situation?

I would suggest that if the last LNER service were to be missed the OP should approach Scotrail staff to make the necessary arrangements to use the Lumo service.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The connection time is 24 minutes. My train is due to get into Edinburgh Waverley at 17.06 and then the LNER train leaves at 17.30

My question is basically if the ScotRail rail is heavily delayed or cancelled, will I be allowed to jump on the next London bound train despite the fact that my ticket is an advanced one.

Seems like I’m in the clear.

Has @Denzo clarified which day of the week they are planning on travelling on?

 

[fandroid]

If I remember correctly - another issue is that Edinburgh has separate gatelines between the west-facing bays that the Falkirks use, and the rest of the station which LNER use, so there is a risk of the first ticket being swallowed if you put it through a barrier. In case of delays it may be prudent to get staff to let you out and retain your Falkirk - Edinburgh ticket so you have evidence of the first part of the journey.

As an extra piece of insurance the OP could take a photo of the ScotRail ticket

 

[island]

Does this "any TOC must help of you'd otherwise be stranded" rule apply to an Open Access service like Lumo, or are they a law unto themselves even in this situation?

Both.

 

[Hadders]

Also, please bear in mind that 17:30 is the last LNER train from Edinburgh to London on certain days, so there may not be a next LNER train to take.

I think this is generally only the case on Saturday's. On weekdays there's LNER trains to Kings Cross at 18:30 and 19:06, on SUnday's there's normally an 18:30 and 19:00.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Does this "any TOC must help of you'd otherwise be stranded" rule apply to an Open Access service like Lumo, or are they a law unto themselves even in this situation?

Lumo are in the National Rail Conditions of Travel (as per Appendix A) so this also applies to them. Although in practice, I’m not too sure!

The only operator it doesn’t apply to (other than of course Eurostar) is Heathrow Express, which isn’t actually a party to the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

 

[plugwash]

Does this "any TOC must help of you'd otherwise be stranded" rule apply to an Open Access service

My understanding is that there are serveral different categories of open-access services.

Lumo, Grand Central and Hull Trains are national rail TOCs and are at least in theory bound by the national rail conditoins of travel.

Heathrow express seem to be in a similar position to London Underground and many ferry services they take some national rail tickets, but they aren't a national rail TOC per-se so presumablly aren't bound by it's requirement to assist.

And then there are services that don't participate in national rail at all despite running on network rail metals. Mostly charter/railtour type services, but also some that are sheduled somewhat regularly like the Jacobite and the NYMR.

Regarding Eurostar do they actually run on network rail tracks at all anymore since the construction of HS1?

 

[Haywain]

Regarding Eurostar do they actually run on network rail tracks at all anymore since the construction of HS1?

They use the same tracks as Southeastern as far as Ashford. However, their standing as far as being a National Rail operator is rather irrelevant as they do not have any (set down/pick up) calls other than St Pancras so would not be able to provide an alternative service.

 

[317 forever]

If I remember correctly - another issue is that Edinburgh has separate gatelines between the west-facing bays that the Falkirks use, and the rest of the station which LNER use, so there is a risk of the first ticket being swallowed if you put it through a barrier. In case of delays it may be prudent to get staff to let you out and retain your Falkirk - Edinburgh ticket so you have evidence of the first part of the journey.

Part of the reason I have been convinced to go over to e-tickets is to avoid paper tickets being swallowed up at the ticket gates.