LNER to pilot removal of Off-Peak tickets

[AlterEgo]

I'd be alright with Anytime and Advance as the only options. No different to flying.

That is very different to flying, which has a fare structure vastly more complex than the railways; it's just that most casual users will not notice that. The impression of simplicity is more important than anything else.

Here are the fare rules for a simple round trip ticket in low fare economy, London to New York:

General notes
ECONOMY RT UNBUNDLED FARES T
APPLIES FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
RESERVATION BOOKING DESIGNATOR
EXCEPTIONS
CHART 1
FARE LOCATIONS/FLIGHTS MKTG RBD NOTE
IDENTIFIER CXR
------------- ----------------------- --- ---------- ------
O- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS O T R/DA
N- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS N T R/DA
X- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS X T R/DA
Q- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS Q T R/DA
E- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS E T R/DA
M- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS M T R/DA
U- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS U T R/DA
L- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS L T R/DA
R- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS R T R/DA
B- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS B T R/DA
Y- TYPE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS Y T R/DA
ANY FARE EACH FLT SEGMENT. VS T NRBD
Category 3: Seasonal restrictions
OUTBOUND -
PERMITTED ON 18APR FOR EACH TRIP.
INBOUND -
PERMITTED ON 25APR FOR EACH TRIP.
Category 4: Flight restrictions
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
VS FLIGHT 45.
Category 5: Advanced reservation/ticketing restrictions
RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS.
WHEN RESERVATIONS ARE MADE AT LEAST 96 HOURS BEFORE
DEPARTURE TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 72 HOURS
AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 72 HOURS BEFORE
DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
OR - RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS.
TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED THE DAY RESERVATIONS ARE
MADE.
Category 6: Minimum stay requirements
TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST COMMENCE NO
EARLIER THAN THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL AT TURNAROUND.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN
24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT TURNAROUND.
Category 7: Maximum stay requirements
TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN 12
MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
Category 8: Stopover restrictions
NO STOPOVERS PERMITTED.
Category 9: Transfer restrictions
UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT
FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED AND EMBEDDED
SURFACE SECTORS PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT.
Category 10: Combinability
END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED
APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN
MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
OPEN JAWS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS WHICH CONSISTS OF NO MORE THAN
2 INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS AND THE OPEN SEGMENT AT
ORIGIN MUST BE IN ONE COUNTRY. THE OPEN SEGMENT AT
DESTINATION HAS NO RESTRICTIONS.
A MAXIMUM OF TWO INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS
PERMITTED.
MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN
MILEAGE OF THE LONGEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM DOUBLE OPEN JAWS WHICH CONSISTS OF NO MORE THAN
2 INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS AND THE OPEN SEGMENT AT
ORIGIN MUST BE IN ONE COUNTRY. THE OPEN SEGMENT AT
DESTINATION HAS NO RESTRICTIONS.
A MAXIMUM OF TWO INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS
PERMITTED.
THE MILEAGE FOR AN INTERNATIONAL OPEN SEGMENT IS EQUAL
TO OR LESS THAN THE MILEAGE FOR THE LONGEST FLOWN FARE
COMPONENT. THERE IS NO MILEAGE RESTRICTION ON AN OPEN
SEGMENT WITHIN ONE COUNTRY.
OPEN JAWS NOTE -
FOR NORMAL FARES THE MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT
MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN THE MILEAGE OF THE
OUTBOUND SEGMENT
PROVIDED -
THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE
-BETWEEN AREA 1 AND FRENCH POLYNESIA.
-WITHIN AREA 1 OR WITHIN FRENCH POLYNESIA.
-WITHIN ANY ONE COUNTRY IN EUROPE.
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER KL/AF/DL/
AZ/VS BETWEEN EUROPE/AREA 1
OR FOR CARRIER KL/AF/DL/AZ BETWEEN EUROPE/FRENCH
POLYNESIA
OR FOR CARRIER VS BETWEEN EUROPE/MEXICO
OR FOR CARRIER VS BETWEEN EUROPE/NORTH AMERICA IN ANY
RULE IN TARIFF
APFRRPV - BETWEEN AREA 2-AREA 3 VIA ATLANTIC/PACIFIC
ATDLR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2
FBRA12 - BETWEEN AREA 1 AND AREA 2 EXCEPT US/CA
FBRA12P - BETWEEN AREA 1 AND AREA 2 EXCEPT US/CA
FBRA23P - BETWEEN AREA 2 AND AREA 3
FBRIN - US/CA-AREA 1/AREA2/AREA 3 EXCLUDING US
TERRITORIES
FBRINPV - BETWEEN USA/CA-AREA 1/2/3
IPRA - USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRAI - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA ATLANTIC
IPRAP - BETWEEN AREA 2-AREA 3 VIA ATLANTIC/PACIFIC
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
SAR2RPV - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
TAPVCR - BETWEEN CA/US-AREA 2/3 VIA ATLANTIC
TAPVR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2.
ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM ROUND TRIPS
-TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS
A MAXIMUM OF TWO INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS
PERMITTED.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER KL/AF/DL/AZ/
VS BETWEEN EUROPE/AREA 1
OR FOR CARRIER KL/AF/DL/AZ BETWEEN EUROPE/FRENCH
POLYNESIA
OR FOR CARRIER VS BETWEEN EUROPE/MEXICO
OR FOR CARRIER VS BETWEEN EUROPE/NORTH AMERICA IN ANY
RULE IN TARIFF
APFRRPV - BETWEEN AREA 2-AREA 3 VIA ATLANTIC/PACIFIC
ATDLR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2
FBRA12 - BETWEEN AREA 1 AND AREA 2 EXCEPT US/CA
FBRA12P - BETWEEN AREA 1 AND AREA 2 EXCEPT US/CA
FBRA23P - BETWEEN AREA 2 AND AREA 3
FBRIN - US/CA-AREA 1/AREA2/AREA 3 EXCLUDING US
TERRITORIES
FBRINPV - BETWEEN USA/CA-AREA 1/2/3
IPRA - USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
IPRAI - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA ATLANTIC
IPRAP - BETWEEN AREA 2-AREA 3 VIA ATLANTIC/PACIFIC
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
SAR2RPV - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATLANTIC
TAPVCR - BETWEEN CA/US-AREA 2/3 VIA ATLANTIC
TAPVR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2.
Category 15: Sales restrictions
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL WITHIN EUROPE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY A3 FLIGHT
ANY AZ FLIGHT
ANY BA FLIGHT
ANY EI FLIGHT
ANY FB FLIGHT
ANY FI FLIGHT
ANY IB FLIGHT
ANY JU FLIGHT
ANY KM FLIGHT
ANY LO FLIGHT
ANY OK FLIGHT
ANY OU FLIGHT
ANY RO FLIGHT
ANY SK FLIGHT
ANY SU FLIGHT
ANY TK FLIGHT
ANY TP FLIGHT
ANY UX FLIGHT
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON VS.
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED BY ELECTRONIC TICKETING.
NOTE -
EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY MAY BE PERMITTED IN
SOME CIRCUMSTANCES. REFER TO CONDITIONS OF
CARRIAGE ON OUR WEBSITE FOR FULL DETAILS.
OTHERWISE
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON VS OR DL.
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED BY ELECTRONIC TICKETING.
NOTE -
EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY MAY BE PERMITTED IN
SOME CIRCUMSTANCES. REFER TO CONDITIONS OF
CARRIAGE ON OUR WEBSITE FOR FULL DETAILS.
OR - TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON VS OR AF.
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED BY ELECTRONIC TICKETING.
NOTE -
EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY MAY BE PERMITTED IN
SOME CIRCUMSTANCES. REFER TO CONDITIONS OF
CARRIAGE ON OUR WEBSITE FOR FULL DETAILS.
OR - TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON VS OR KL.
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED BY ELECTRONIC TICKETING.
NOTE -
EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY MAY BE PERMITTED IN
SOME CIRCUMSTANCES. REFER TO CONDITIONS OF
CARRIAGE ON OUR WEBSITE FOR FULL DETAILS.
Category 16: Penalties
CHANGES
ANY TIME
CHARGE GBP 200.00.
NOTE -
CHANGE FEES APPLY PER PASSENGER/PER TRANSACTION
FOR ADULTS/CHILDREN AND INFANT OCCUPYING A SEAT.
INFANTS WITHOUT A SEAT CHARGE 10 PERCENT OF FEE.
CHANGE FEES APPLY FOR ANY CHANGES TO RESERVATIONS
INCLUDING TO FLIGHTS/DATES/ROUTINGS AND CLASSES.
--------------------------------------------------
REPRICING AND REISSUE MUST BE COMPLETED AT THE
SAME TIME THE RESERVATION IS CHANGED
--------------------------------------------------
CHANGES MUST BE MADE PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OF THE
FLIGHT - CHANGES MADE AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE
FLIGHT WILL BE CONSIDERED A NO-SHOW AND THE
APPLICABLE NO-SHOW POLICY WILL APPLY
--------------------------------------------------
BEFORE DEPARTURE OF THE FIRST FLIGHT WHEN THERE
IS NO CHANGE TO THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT -
REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING HISTORICAL FARES IN
EFFECT ON THE PREVIOUS TICKET DATE OR USING
CURRENT FARES IN EFFECT AT THE TIME OF THE
REISSUE WHICHEVER IS LOWER.
WHEN THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT IS CHANGED -
REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING CURRENT FARES IN
EFFECT AT THE TIME OF REISSUE.
--------------------------------------------------
AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE FIRST FLIGHT REPRICE THE
ITINERARY USING HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE
PREVIOUS TICKET DATE. NEW FARE MUST BE EQUAL OR
HIGHER THAN ORIGINAL FARE.
--------------------------------------------------
THE NEW ITINERARY MUST MEET ALL THE RULE
CONDITIONS OF THE NEW FARE E.G APEX/MIN/MAX STAY
--------------------------------------------------
NO SHOW - IN THE EVENT OF NO SHOW THE TICKET IS
NON REFUNDABLE AND NON CHANGABLE AND MAY NOT BE
USED AS CREDIT TOWARDS THE PURCHASE OF ANY OTHER
FARES.
--------------------------------------------------
MULTIPLE CHARGES
CHANGE FEES ARE APPLICABLE FOR ANY CHANGED FARE
COMPONENTS. WHERE ONE FARE COMPONENT IS CHANGED -
THE APPLICABLE FEE FOR THAT CHANGED FARE
COMPONENT WILL APPLY. WHEN MULTIPLE FARE
COMPONENTS ARE CHANGED - THE HIGHEST FEE OF ANY
OF THE CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS WILL APPLY. WHERE
A NON-CHANGEABLE FARE COMPONENT IS COMBINED WITH
A CHANGEABLE FARE COMPONENT ONLY THE CHANGEABLE
FARE COMPONENT MAY BE CHANGED THE NON CHANGEABLE
FARE COMPONENT REMAINS NON CHANGEABLE.
--------------------------------------------------
WAIVERS - CHANGE FEES MAY BE WAIVED FOR
DEATH OF THE PASSENGER/TRAVELLING COMPANION OR
IMMEDIATE FAMILY AS EVIDENCED BY A DEATH
CERTIFICATE
--------------------------------------------------
UPGRADES TO HIGHER BRAND / CABIN OR FULLY
FLEXIBLE FARES THAT ALLOW FREE OF CHARGE CHANGES
ARE PERMITTED WITH NO CHANGE FEE. RESULTING FARE
MUST BE EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN THE ORIGINAL FARE.
ANY NON-REFUNDABLE AMOUNTS WILL REMAIN NON-
REFUNDABLE IF FARES ARE UPGRADED.
CANCELLATIONS
ANY TIME
CHARGE GBP 300.00.
NOTE -
REFUNDS ARE NOT PERMITTED OUTSIDE THE PERIOD OF
VALIDITY OF THE TICKET IN ACCORDANCE WITH OUR
GENERAL CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE
--------------------------------------------------
REFUND PENALTY APPLIES TO ADULTS / CHILDREN AND
INFANTS OCCUPYING A SEAT. INFANTS WITHOUT A SEAT
CHARGE 10 PERCENT.
--------------------------------------------------
PARTIALLY USED TICKETS
REFUND THE DIFFERENCE IF ANY BETWEEN THE FARE
PAID AND THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR THE JOURNEY
TRAVELLED.
--------------------------------------------------
WAIVERS
REFUND RESTRICTIONS MAY BE WAIVED FOR DEATH OF
THE PASSENGER/TRAVELLING COMPANION OR IMMEDIATE
FAMILY AS EVIDENCED BY A DEATH CERTIFICATE
--------------------------------------------------
MULTIPLE CHARGES
THE MOST RESTRICTIVE CONDITIONS OF EACH OF THE
PRICING UNITS WILL APPLY.
CHARGE THE HIGHEST FEE OF EACH CANCELLED PRICING
UNIT. WHEN COMBINING A NON REFUNDABLE FARE WITH A
REFUNDABLE FARE THE AMOUNT PAID ON THE REFUNDABLE
FARE COMPONENT WILL BE REFUNDED LESS ANY
APPLICABLE PENALTIES. THE AMOUNT PAID ON ANY NON
REFUNDABLE FARE COMPONENTS WILL NOT BE REFUNDED
--------------------------------------------------
TAXES AND SURCHARGES
UNUSED GOVERNMENT AND AIRPORT TAXES AND CARRIER
IMPOSED SURCHARGES/YQ WILL BE REFUNDED
--------------------------------------------------
NO SHOW
IN CASE OF A NO SHOW WITHIN A FARE COMPONENT THAT
FARE COMPONENT BECOMES NON REFUNDABLE.
--------------------------------------------------
INDIA SERVICE TAXES MAY BE APPLICABLE ON
CANCELLATION FEES CALCULATED IN INR
Category 17: HIP exceptions
THE HIGHER INTERMEDIATE POINT RULE DOES NOT APPLY FOR
CONNECTIONS.
AND - THE HIGHER INTERMEDIATE POINT RULE DOES NOT APPLY
FOR STOPOVERS.
Category 19: Discounts
ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 75 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS C.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME COMPARTMENT
BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER
OR - ACCOMPANIED CHILD 12-15 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS Y.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS BY ADULT 16 OR
OLDER
OR - GBE 12-15 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS Y.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS BY ADULT 16 OR
OLDER
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - CHARGE 10 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS I.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 75 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS C.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER.
NOTE -
ALL CHILDREN AGED 13 AND UNDER MUST BE
ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME CABIN BY
AN ADULT 16 YEARS OR OLDER.
CHILDREN AGED 14 AND 15 MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON
THE SAME FLIGHT BY AN ADULT 16 YEARS OR OLDER.
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN 15 YEARS AND UNDER ARE NOT
PERMITTED TO TRAVEL AT THESE FARES.
PNRS MUST BE CROSS REFERENCED IF ADULT PASSENGERS
ARE BOOKED INTO A DIFFERENT PNR TO A CHILD.
Category 23: Miscellaneous Fare Tags
THIS FARE MUST NOT BE USED FOR ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION. THIS
FARE MUST NOT BE USED AS THE HIGH OR THE LOW FARE WHEN
CALCULATING A DIFFERENTIAL. THIS FARE MUST NOT BE USED AS
THE THROUGH FARE WHEN PRICING A FARE COMPONENT WITH A
DIFFERENTIAL.
Category 31: Voluntary changes
IN THE EVENT OF CHANGES TO TICKETED FLIGHTS
BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY - APPLIES WITHIN TKT VALIDITY
CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY
THOSE OF VS INTERNATIONAL FARES
CHARGE GBP 200.00 OR HIGHEST FEE OF ALL CHANGED FARE
COMPONENTS - INFANT W/O SEAT DISCOUNTS APPLY AND
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO 1ST FARE COMPONENT
2. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST
BE DOMESTIC
3. CHANGE IS BEFORE ORIGINAL SCHEDULED FLIGHT
4. VS FARE TYPE EOU/ERU/PRU ARE USED
5. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
6. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
7. TKT REISSUE RESTRICTED TO VS
OR -
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT TODAY
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST
BE DOMESTIC
2. CHANGE IS BEFORE ORIGINAL SCHEDULED FLIGHT
3. VS FARE TYPE EOU/ERU/PRU ARE USED
4. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE
OF PRICING UNIT
5. TKT REISSUE RESTRICTED TO VS
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE IGNORE RESIDUAL THEN
ADD-COLLECT
ENDORSEMENT BOX- HIGHER NON-REF AMT AND NEW ENDORSEMENTS.
OR -
AFTER DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY - APPLIES WITHIN TKT VALIDITY
CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY
THOSE OF VS INTERNATIONAL FARES
CHARGE GBP 200.00 OR HIGHEST FEE OF ALL CHANGED FARE
COMPONENTS - INFANT W/O SEAT DISCOUNTS APPLY AND
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST
BE DOMESTIC
2. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT
3. CHANGE IS BEFORE ORIGINAL SCHEDULED FLIGHT
4. VS FARE TYPE EOU/ERU/PRU ARE USED
5. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
6. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
7. TKT REISSUE RESTRICTED TO VS
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE IGNORE RESIDUAL THEN
ADD-COLLECT
ENDORSEMENT BOX- HIGHER NON-REF AMT AND NEW ENDORSEMENTS.
OR -
BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY - APPLIES WITHIN TKT VALIDITY
CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY
THOSE OF VS INTERNATIONAL FARES
NO CHARGE OR HIGHEST FEE OF ALL CHANGED FARE
COMPONENTS- INFANT W/O SEAT DISCOUNTS APPLY AND
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO STOPOVERS AND CONNECTIONS/1ST FARE
COMPONENT/FLIGHT NUMBERS/FARE BREAKS
2. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST
BE DOMESTIC
3. CHANGE IS BEFORE ORIGINAL SCHEDULED FLIGHT
4. VS ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU/PRU ARE USED
5. NEW FARE IS EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS FARE
6. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
7. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
8. TKT REISSUE RESTRICTED TO VS
OR -
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT TODAY
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO STOPOVERS AND CONNECTIONS/FLIGHT
NUMBERS/FARE BREAKS
2. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST
BE DOMESTIC
3. CHANGE IS BEFORE ORIGINAL SCHEDULED FLIGHT
4. VS ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU/PRU ARE USED
5. NEW FARE IS EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS FARE
6. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE
OF PRICING UNIT
7. TKT REISSUE RESTRICTED TO VS
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE IGNORE RESIDUAL THEN
ADD-COLLECT
ENDORSEMENT BOX- HIGHER NON-REF AMT AND NEW ENDORSEMENTS.
OR -
AFTER DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY - APPLIES WITHIN TKT VALIDITY
CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY
THOSE OF VS INTERNATIONAL FARES
NO CHARGE OR HIGHEST FEE OF ALL CHANGED FARE
COMPONENTS- INFANT W/O SEAT DISCOUNTS APPLY AND
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO STOPOVERS AND CONNECTIONS/FLIGHT
NUMBERS/FARE BREAKS
2. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST
BE DOMESTIC
3. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT
4. CHANGE IS BEFORE ORIGINAL SCHEDULED FLIGHT
5. VS ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU/PRU ARE USED
6. NEW FARE IS EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS FARE
7. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
8. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
9. TKT REISSUE RESTRICTED TO VS
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE IGNORE RESIDUAL THEN
ADD-COLLECT
ENDORSEMENT BOX- HIGHER NON-REF AMT AND NEW ENDORSEMENTS.
Category 33: Voluntary cancellations
REFUND REQUEST REQUIRED BEFORE ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FLIGHT
OF FIRST UNUSED TICKET COUPON.
CHARGE GBP 300.00 PER PRICING UNIT. IF ALL PENALTIES IN
PRICING UNIT ARE PER PRICING UNIT COLLECT HIGHEST. IF MIX
OF PER FARE COMPONENT AND PER PRICING UNIT CALCULATE EACH
AS PER PRICING UNIT AND COLLECT HIGHEST. DISCOUNT APPLIES
TO INFANT WITH OR WITHOUT SEAT.
REFUND REQUEST MUST BE LESS THAN ONE YEAR AFTER TICKET
ISSUANCE. FORM OF REFUND - ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT. ONLY
VALIDATING CARRIER MAY REFUND TICKET.
REPRICE FLOWN PORTION USING FARES IN EFFECT ON TICKET
ISSUANCE DATE. FOR FULLY FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS FARE BREAK
POINTS MAY NOT BE CHANGED. FOR PARTIALLY FLOWN FARE
COMPONENTS ONLY DESTINATION FARE BREAK POINTS MAY BE
CHANGED. REPRICE USING NORMAL/SPECIAL ONE WAY FARES/ANY
RULE/FARE CLASS/EQUAL OR HIGHER RBD. PUBLIC FARES ARE
USED IF TICKETED FARE IS IN PUBLIC TARIFF. QUALIFIED
PRIVATE FARES OR PUBLIC FARES ARE USED IF TICKETED FARE
IS IN PRIVATE TARIFF. NEW FARE FOR FULLY FLOWN FARE
COMPONENTS MUST BE EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN TICKETED FARE.
OR -
FARE AND TAXES ARE NONREFUNDABLE ANYTIME AFTER ORIGINALLY
SCHEDULED FLIGHT OF FIRST UNUSED TICKET COUPON.
IF MIX OF PER FARE COMPONENT AND PER PRICING UNIT
CALCULATE EACH AS PER PRICING UNIT AND COLLECT HIGHEST.
REFUND REQUEST MUST BE LESS THAN ONE YEAR AFTER TICKET
ISSUANCE.
Category 35: Negotiated Fares
IF THIS FARE IS VALID FOR A SPECIFIED ACCOUNT CODE.
CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
OR - THIS FARE IS VALID FOR A SPECIFIED ACCOUNT CODE.
CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
SALE IS RESTRICTED TO SPECIFIC AGENTS
SALE IS RESTRICTED TO SPECIFIC AGENTS
OR - SALE IS RESTRICTED TO SPECIFIC AGENTS
OR - SALE IS RESTRICTED TO SPECIFIC AGENTS
OR - SALE IS RESTRICTED TO SPECIFIC AGENTS
OR - SALE IS RESTRICTED TO SPECIFIC AGENTS
Category 50: Application
VIRGIN ATLANTIC SPECIAL FARES
APPLICATION
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR BUSINESS/PREMIUM ECONOMY/ECONOMY
CLASS SERVICE.
TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION
THIS RULE GOVERNS ROUND-TRIP FARES.
FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE CAN BE USED TO CREATE
ROUND-TRIP JOURNEYS.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
THE CARRIER SHALL LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS CARRIED
ON ANY ONE FLIGHT AT FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE AND SUCH
FARES WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE AVAILABLE ON ALL FLIGHTS.
THE NUMBER OF SEATS WHICH THE CARRIER SHALL MAKE
AVAILABLE ON A GIVEN FLIGHT WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE
CARRIERS BEST JUDGMENT

 

[GoneSouth]

Here are the fare rules for a simple round trip ticket in low fare economy, London to New York:

Yeah, that’s clear enough, looking forward to seeing this across Great British Railways soon.

 

[Angmering1974]

Explain why you can't get one of the tickets even if you're willing to stand? I didn't think reservations were actually compulsory?

Perhaps it’s that it reduces capacity, which can perversely justify higher ticket prices?

At those sort of prices I'll end up paying a tenner to National Express instead who will take a couple of hours longer to get me there but then I can spend the savings on a night in The Ritz!

Gov are probably quite happy for passengers to do this. It “privatises” public transport and reduces demand, thus reduces their costs. They will likely welcome any uptick in coach journeys.

 

[stephy]

Moral argument: is the state duty-bound to provide accessible public transport? I would argue yes.
I thought we were all supposed to be ditching our cars?
I can think of lots of scenarios in which not booking 12 weeks in advance is normal.
Visiting friends who don't know their plans the far in advance
Unpredictable children or babies.
Work! No one at work books that far in advance! Maybe businesses will pay but actually many won't - they'll say don't travel or do the meeting on Zoom.

 

[island]

Most people will suspect this change to the fare system is just a ploy to increase prices. But it could be just another nail in the railway's coffin.

I think you're mistaken on how close the views of the general public are to the views of people on this forum.

The vast majority of people travelling long distance from London to Newcastle/Edinburgh just on online (probably to Trainline ), search for their ticket, book it, and pay. They just want a seat, ideally a good value one. They plan and choose a specific train to travel on, and travel on it they do.

The eyes of a member of the general public glaze over when you start talking about a ticket that they can use before 14:59 and after 18:58, except on Fridays when it's 18:15, but if they go from St Pancras Kings Cross rather than Kings Cross St Pancras that's 18:48.

A ticket that you can use on the 19:00, or 70 minutes earlier or later if you have a slight change of plans, though? Now that's easy to understand and use.

 

[py_megapixel]

It doesn't appear to be a fixed £20 supplement to the Advance fare, as claimed by David Horne of LNER.

These fares are for London-Newcastle on 22 Feb.

View attachment 150564

A screenshot of a price grid showing 4 LNER trains and the prices available on them. For one train, the Semi-flexible price is £20 higher than the Advance. For two trains, it's £26.50 higher than the Advance.

There's a couple of weird things in that screenshot actually

Firstly the LNER site appears not to be providing the option of the Lumo-only Anytime Return at all, presumably because it doesn't fit properly into any of the three categories they're using. Though maybe it's buried under that "View all fares" button.

Secondly, that's a rather large price difference between the semi-flex fares for the 14:30 and the 15:00 given that the one for the 14:30 is in fact also valid on the 15:00!

Thirdly, is a semi-flex ticket for e.g. the 15:30 valid on that 15:27 itinerary with a change? (I'm not familiar enough with the ECML service pattern to know where the change is or how it manages to save 9 mins on the journey time)

 

[Joe Paxton]

One of the very big question marks re this plan is the extent to which there will be (very) short notice availability of Advances and Semi-Flex 70 tickets when trains are busy - specifically thinking about the non-peak periods when off-peak walk-up tickets are currently valid.

I'm guessing Advance and Semi-Flex 70 tickets will only be sold with stay reservations - if so, once all seats allocated to those ticket types are taken, no more such tickets will be sold.

LNER do state they are committed to a walk-up railway, but if the only fundamental guarantee of this is through an Anytime ticket then it's going to be an expensive walk-up railway.

 

[bakerstreet]

I think you're mistaken on how close the views of the general public are to the views of people on this forum.

The vast majority of people travelling long distance from London to Newcastle/Edinburgh just on online (probably to Trainline ), search for their ticket, book it, and pay. They just want a seat, ideally a good value one. They plan and choose a specific train to travel on, and travel on it they do.

The eyes of a member of the general public glaze over when you start talking about a ticket that they can use before 14:59 and after 18:58, except on Fridays when it's 18:15, but if they go from St Pancras Kings Cross rather than Kings Cross St Pancras that's 18:48.

A ticket that you can use on the 19:00, or 70 minutes earlier or later if you have a slight change of plans, though? Now that's easy to understand and use.

You will be pleasantly surprised to see from this twitter (x) feed the general public are not being fooled by this either.

https://x.com/lner/status/1747199992131973334?s=46

There has been a conscious effort here to bury the important details of these tickets, and it stinks

why is an on the day ticket SO much more expensive than an advance?

Train travel is well and truly dead in the wind. This is a BAD move!

The cost of a flexible single on weekends between Newcastle and Kings Cross more than doubles under this, up from £83.80 to £192.80. Often this is the only ticket available even several weeks in advance.
This is completely unacceptable and will lead to more people flying.

Hi, why are you more than doubling the cost of walk-up fares that aren't subject to availability, or that allow a break of journey?

You're "proud" to make ticketing even more complicated and expensive than it already is? Please make way for people who actually support the railways

That's a really bad move. The new 70 minute advance tickets are just a fig leaf to cover the flexibility that is lost by abolishing off-peak and super off-peak fares. It is a fare hike by any other name.

Axing off peak fares is not something to be proud of !
It will make travel more expensive for many.
Walk up fares should not be unaffordable.

Could have been a win, but no - it’s a hidden price rise on flex fares.

You are basically just increasing fares - the cost of a single "semi flexible" ticket London-EDB for 5th or 6th Feb is already more than what an off-peak single used to cost.

If this goes ahead, me and most people I know will stop using trains and instead get in their cars. Please don't do this.

This is a completely unfair price hike. Why would anyone go for an ‘anytime’ ticket at an off-peak time currently unless they really had to? Short answer, they wouldn’t

You’d need more money than sense to do this. Ripoff.

I drove London to York and back last weekend for my aunt's funeral, I would have preferred the train but your fares a week before (once I knew the date) were extortionate. So much for carbon reduction

And many many more.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I think you're mistaken on how close the views of the general public are to the views of people on this forum.

The vast majority of people travelling long distance from London to Newcastle/Edinburgh just on online (probably to Trainline ), search for their ticket, book it, and pay. They just want a seat, ideally a good value one. They plan and choose a specific train to travel on, and travel on it they do.

The eyes of a member of the general public glaze over when you start talking about a ticket that they can use before 14:59 and after 18:58, except on Fridays when it's 18:15, but if they go from St Pancras Kings Cross rather than Kings Cross St Pancras that's 18:48.

A ticket that you can use on the 19:00, or 70 minutes earlier or later if you have a slight change of plans, though? Now that's easy to understand and use.

I think that's a reasonable counterpoint to many of the arguments on this thread.

(That doesn't mean I agree with these changes, but it's always worthwhile trying to understand other (opposing) points of view.)

 

[island]

I think that's a reasonable counterpoint to many of the arguments on this thread.

(That doesn't mean I agree with these changes, but it's always worthwhile trying to understand other (opposing) points of view.)

I also don't agree with the changes, for the record, but it's a mistake to think that the views of posters here, or vocal X users, necessarily correspond with those of the general public.

 

[Smidster]

I think you're mistaken on how close the views of the general public are to the views of people on this forum.

The vast majority of people travelling long distance from London to Newcastle/Edinburgh just on online (probably to Trainline ), search for their ticket, book it, and pay. They just want a seat, ideally a good value one. They plan and choose a specific train to travel on, and travel on it they do.

The eyes of a member of the general public glaze over when you start talking about a ticket that they can use before 14:59 and after 18:58, except on Fridays when it's 18:15, but if they go from St Pancras Kings Cross rather than Kings Cross St Pancras that's 18:48.

A ticket that you can use on the 19:00, or 70 minutes earlier or later if you have a slight change of plans, though? Now that's easy to understand and use.

The average person may not fully understand the intricacies of the system but they are also not completely stupid.

When people who are used to paying say £80 for a ticket are turning up and being charged £190 then they will notice!

Can't be easy for some of the LNER folk - They are being trotted out to defend and proclaim something that they must also know is detrimental to 100% of people - they are also not complete idiots.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I think you're mistaken on how close the views of the general public are to the views of people on this forum.

The vast majority of people travelling long distance from London to Newcastle/Edinburgh just on online (probably to Trainline ), search for their ticket, book it, and pay. They just want a seat, ideally a good value one. They plan and choose a specific train to travel on, and travel on it they do.

The eyes of a member of the general public glaze over when you start talking about a ticket that they can use before 14:59 and after 18:58, except on Fridays when it's 18:15, but if they go from St Pancras Kings Cross rather than Kings Cross St Pancras that's 18:48.

A ticket that you can use on the 19:00, or 70 minutes earlier or later if you have a slight change of plans, though? Now that's easy to understand and use.

Eyes may glaze over when you start talking about complicated restrictions, but people will notice that the ticket they used to buy for a weekend trip (where by and large off peak time restrictions don't usual;ly apply) is now either much more expensive or they now have to actually decide what time they are going to retun in advance. That may be how people plan longer distance journetys, but LNER are the fare setters for many short distance journeys too, and I bet you that someone who lives in London visiting their parents in Peteborough for the weekend is not going to plan which train they specifically want to get back to London in advance - they may know a rough timing, but certainly not within an hour of the exact train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But my point remains - for long distance travel, tomorrow is relatively last minute. I’d be happy if the fare went up on the day before to the same as the off peak return providing I was guaranteed a seat (which LNER do, iirc)

No, I'm afraid you're missing the point. The point is that without the Super Off Peak Single, it will go up much more than that at some times of the week. Probably £150+.

Considering only 1/9 of passengers used off peak tickets anyway, it’s fair to say that there’s room to innovate without annoying too many people.

The actual ticket is/was less important than the cap on fares it provided. That affects the other 8/9 as well (other than those travelling at times when only the Anytime was valid before).

I'd have less of an objection (though I'd still object) if it was the case that the cap would remain in place and regulated, i.e. the maximum 70 minute Advance fare at the old Super Off Peak times was the old Super Off Peak fare. But they haven't done that, and they won't, because the reason to do this is to increase fares, which is the key point you're missing when you talk about flexibility being needed or not as the primary issue, which it isn't.

Eyes may glaze over when you start talking about complicated restrictions, but people will notice that the ticket they used to buy for a weekend trip (where by and large off peak time restrictions don't usual;ly apply) is now either much more expensive or they now have to actually decide what time they are going to retun in advance. That may be how people plan longer distance journetys, but LNER are the fare setters for many short distance journeys too, and I bet you that someone who lives in London visiting their parents in Peteborough for the weekend is not going to plan which train they specifically want to get back to London in advance - they may know a rough timing, but certainly not within an hour of the exact train.

Certainly the likes of WMT, Chiltern and GTR would benefit from this sort of thing for the short distance services, assuming they remained walk-up, which seems likely as contactless seems to be their future. If Avanti do this but WMT don't, I think the WMT Crewe service will be busier than ever.

 

[mad_rich]

Thirdly, is a semi-flex ticket for e.g. the 15:30 valid on that 15:27 itinerary with a change? (I'm not familiar enough with the ECML service pattern to know where the change is or how it manages to save 9 mins on the journey time)

The 1527 departure is LNER + Crosscountry, so that's why the semi-flex option is not offered on it.

 

[AlterEgo]

You will be pleasantly surprised to see from this twitter (x) feed the general public are not being fooled by this either.

https://x.com/lner/status/1747199992131973334?s=46

And many many more.

Those are mostly enthusiasts and power users of tickets. I follow most of them, or they follow me. I’d caution against it being representative.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The quotas mean the end of affordable walk up fares. Even if the flex tickets are potentially on sale until departure, they may sell out - so a walk up passenger may find they are paying £70 or £200, and won't know which until they get to the station.

Some time in the near future I am going to have to travel to Newcastle - I don't know when, but when I do know, I will have to go immediately or, at best, with a few hours notice. (People entering or leaving this world do not operate to any kind of pre-planned schedule)


And how would this work if it gets extended to all LNER-set fares? say I buy a Flex from Stirling to London, connecting at Edinburgh for a train at 1500. (Times are illustrative, not necessarily in the current timetable) But I choose instead to leave Stirling an hour later (as the Flex is supposed to allow you to do) and catch a 1600 departure from Edinburgh instead.

But the train from Stirling is delayed, so I have to take the next train from Edinburgh at 1630, outside the 70 minute window. Would that be allowed?

Or the 1600 is cancelled, so I have to take the 1630.

In both cases, the train ran for which the ticket is nominally valid, so the usual rules about "next available service" if a connection is missed may not apply, or at least it may be difficult to persuade the Revenue Men.

 

[island]

And how would this work if it gets extended to all LNER-set fares? say I buy a Flex from Stirling to London, connecting at Edinburgh for a train at 1500. (Times are illustrative, not necessarily in the current timetable) But I choose instead to leave Stirling an hour later (as the Flex is supposed to allow you to do) and catch a 1600 departure from Edinburgh instead.

But the train from Stirling is delayed, so I have to take the next train from Edinburgh at 1630, outside the 70 minute window. Would that be allowed?

Or the 1600 is cancelled, so I have to take the 1630.

In both cases, the train ran for which the ticket is nominally valid, so the usual rules about "next available service" if a connection is missed may not apply, or at least it may be difficult to persuade the Revenue Men.

As it stands, these new ticket types apply only to journeys entirely on LNER. They will have to announce and apply different sets of rules for when they start applying to connections.

 

[yorkie]

Moral argument: is the state duty-bound to provide accessible public transport? I would argue yes.

As far as the DfT is concerned, accessible only means in terms of wheelchair provision, hearing/visual impairments etc. It does not mean affordable.

LNER launched a new mascot going on about "freedom" but LNER's idea of "freedom" means being able to read a book or watch a video, rather than be able to take any train.

The people who make up these rules don't consult with ordinary people like us and don't look at things in the same way as the majority of people, and it's all about PR and image. Unfortunately for LNER they are struggling to control the image as they are getting battered on social media.

I thought we were all supposed to be ditching our cars?

That's a theoretical concept, not based in reality; the Government is continuing to invest in roads, but any further discussion on this point would be best placed in a separate thread.

I can think of lots of scenarios in which not booking 12 weeks in advance is normal.

Yes but DfT/LNER want to charge a premium for it.

Visiting friends who don't know their plans the far in advance
Unpredictable children or babies.
Work! No one at work books that far in advance! Maybe businesses will pay but actually many won't - they'll say don't travel or do the meeting on Zoom.

Yep all of these mean you are fair game to be charged a premium.

As it stands, these new ticket types apply only to journeys entirely on LNER. They will have to announce and apply different sets of rules for when they start applying to connections.

Indeed; when there are engineering works requiring the use of LNER, the only flexible fares are Anytime (as mentioned upthread).

The forum's site can reduce the cost of a flexible ticket from Newcastle to London on a Saturday next month fom £195 to about £85. LNER are very keen for ticket offices to only offer the through fares and have reminded their staff of this.

Ticket office staff are under strict instructions to issue Newcastle to London Anytime fares in these instances, not Metrocentre to London or splitting at York.

If you don't want to pay Anytime then you don't get to travel flexibly, on any journey where Flex is unavailable, if booking direct.

LNER are very unhappy with us because we "distort" the market, however the rules do not allow them to prevent us from doing this, so we will continue to do so.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Are walk-on off-peak fares not regulated? That SHOULD mean they must be made available at no more than RPI (or whatever the figure is) more than last year. Abolishing them is effectively an infinite price increase, or at least an increase to the Anytime fare which in this case is more than 100%

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are walk-on off-peak fares not regulated? That SHOULD mean they must be made available at no more than RPI (or whatever the figure is) more than last year. Abolishing them is effectively an infinite price increase, or at least an increase to the Anytime fare which in this case is more than 100%

For the non franchised TOCs, regulation is meaningless...

 

[yorkie]

Are walk-on off-peak fares not regulated? That SHOULD mean they must be made available at no more than RPI (or whatever the figure is) more than last year. Abolishing them is effectively an infinite price increase, or at least an increase to the Anytime fare which in this case is more than 100%

"Regulated" by the DfT who have now decided they can be abolished. The DfT are keen to increase revenue and reduce the "burden" on taxpayers. LNER do as they are told by DfT, and this includes putting out spin to say how great the changes are.

The 1527 departure is LNER + Crosscountry, so that's why the semi-flex option is not offered on it.

Yep and if you ask for that at an LNER ticket office, the staff are under strict instructions to only sell an Anytime. They are explicitly told not to split.

We offer splits; DfT/LNER don't like us doing this, but they can't stop us. Unfortunately most passengers are hoodwinked by their desperate "book direct" advertising, so won't consider booking through us. I believe we are growing the market because otherwise people who book with us could drive or go by plane, however DfT do not want the market to grow too much as that would increase their costs, as providing more capacity above a certain point would be expensive.

But my point remains - for long distance travel, tomorrow is relatively last minute.

Many LNER journeys are not really "long distance" travel.

Considering only 1/9 of passengers used off peak tickets anyway, it’s fair to say that there’s room to innovate without annoying too many people.

1/9 passengers from Edinburgh to London? If so, you're probably right.

But not the shorter journeys, for which LNER's roadmap includes, if this trial is deemed successful!

 

[D6700]

Am I understanding correctly in (theoretical at the moment as not one of the 'trial' routes) that a one way off peak single flexible Leeds to London trip on LNER would literally shoot up from £67.00 to...£160.30

Sadly, that is exactly what would happen. This is one of the biggest cons the railway has seen. The deception is clear.

The loss of these tickets is (significant) collateral damage to enable them to hike the price of Advance tickets, which means most travellers will ultimately lose out. And when those fares sell out, which they will, anyone else needing to travel will be forced to buy an exhorbitantly priced Anytime ticket.

This scheme seemingly evades regulated fares by simply doing away with those protected fares. At best, unaffordable Anytime tickets would now become the regulated fares.

The last vestiges of the concept of public transport are being thrown away in favour of pure greed.

David Horne calls this "exciting". Funnily enough, criminals also often talk about the excitement of their acts! He says LNER "look forward to hearing feedback from our customers" and that jacking up fares massively is "introducing value for money". Well, this customer believes you are a bunch of con merchants.

 

[quantinghome]

You will be pleasantly surprised to see from this twitter (x) feed the general public are not being fooled by this either.

https://x.com/lner/status/1747199992131973334?s=46

Twitter isn't the general public, and especially not rail twitter.

 

[yorkie]

Twitter isn't the general public, and especially not rail twitter.

True; the average person is likely to simply be hoodwinked into getting worse value and not realise what's happened.

 

[bakerstreet]

True; the average person is likely to simply be hoodwinked into getting worse value and not realise what's happened.

That’s a shame

 

[quantinghome]

The last vestiges of the concept of public transport are being thrown away in favour of pure greed.

David Horne calls this "exciting". Funnily enough, criminals also often talk about the excitement of their acts! He says LNER "look forward to hearing feedback from our customers" and that jacking up fares massively is "introducing value for money". Well, this customer believes you are a bunch of con merchants.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of these proposals, this is looking at the past with BR blue tinted spectacles. Long distance fares have been set at commercial rates since 1968, in other words whatever the market can bear. BR regularly jacked up fares in the face of high demand rather than increase capacity. Savers and supersavers were introduced by BR, but pretty late on in its existence, and then only to gain extra revenue by encouraging more off peak travel.

Does anyone on here believe that a government-controlled railway would forego the opportunity of increasing income from the farebox? Particularly given the other pressing demands on treasury funds?

 

[Dan G]

Moral argument: is the state duty-bound to provide accessible public transport? I would argue yes.
I thought we were all supposed to be ditching our cars?
I can think of lots of scenarios in which not booking 12 weeks in advance is normal.
Visiting friends who don't know their plans the far in advance
Unpredictable children or babies.
Work! No one at work books that far in advance! Maybe businesses will pay but actually many won't - they'll say don't travel or do the meeting on Zoom.

You can book advance fares up until a few minutes before travel (if any are left)

 

[Fuzzytop]

You can book advance fares up until a few minutes before travel (if any are left)

And if they aren't?

 

[Tester]

You can book advance fares up until a few minutes before travel (if any are left)

At what price?

 

[rheingold103]

Is this so-called 'trial' the thin end of a national wedge? Won't its alleged success be used to justify roll-out on not only all LNER journeys but also other routes and operators where Advance tickets are available?