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LNER to resume full pre-virus timetable from 14th February. Will other operators follow suit?

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Bessie

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No, it was due to the speed that the timetable had to be put in, which precluded the planners being able to do it in time - the DfT wanted “COVID secure” timetables in by the 17th. So a previous one was just “taken off the shelf” and implemented.

These timetables were supposed to run to the 21st of February, when, if the COVID situation improved, they would revert to the December 2021 timetable, as long as the TOC resources were there and there wasn’t any IR issues. Last week the DfT told the TOCs (& NR) to bring it forward and the current plan is to do this on the 14th with TOCs under instructions to try and limit overcrowding in the meantime, by inserting trains back, if possible.
Thank you. It will be interesting to see if any IR issues develop in the meantime. LNER have a good PR team so have got in early with their announcement. You would think other TOCs would do the same and have a start date of 14 February - who knows there could be a joined up PR campaign - fall back in love with the railways! OK I know that will be thrown back at them pretty quickly :p
 
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Starmill

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Goodness doesn’t time fly.
As @JonathanH says most were introduced in October, and one final round trip to make up a two-hourly service was added at the following December timetable.

It was more commuter services. I saw comments saying ‘oh it won’t go back to how it was’, I think it will. Or very close too.
That's fair enough but of course it's all a very different situation to what is mainly happening at LNER isn't it.
 

Class 466

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I’ve always thought people on here saying ‘things won’t go back, everyone will work from’ blah blah was wrong. I have loads of friends who are wanting to go back to the office as they find it more productive. Sure, many will work from home, but plenty still want to travel. I live with SWR so not holding out hope
LNER (mainly leisure travel) can't really be compared to a commuter TOC like SWR.
 

HST43257

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I think the news about LNER returning to the pre-covid timetable isn't saying loads, whilst it is good news. To me, they operate what is really a fairly core service, although I do doubt the need for 2 hourly Harrogates at this time in the pandemic recovery (?)
 

Nicholas Lewis

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No, it was due to the speed that the timetable had to be put in, which precluded the planners being able to do it in time - the DfT wanted “COVID secure” timetables in by the 17th. So a previous one was just “taken off the shelf” and implemented.

These timetables were supposed to run to the 21st of February, when, if the COVID situation improved, they would revert to the December 2021 timetable, as long as the TOC resources were there and there wasn’t any IR issues. Last week the DfT told the TOCs (& NR) to bring it forward and the current plan is to do this on the 14th with TOCs under instructions to try and limit overcrowding in the meantime, by inserting trains back, if possible.
That is very informative insight and at least gives us confidence that this wasn't a smokescreen to permanently reduce service levels although I suspect some operators will take the easy option to ensure they don't risk there bonus earn out metrics.
 

Jamesrob637

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Great news. Gives people flexibility. Hope more companies follow suit in the coming weeks.

Who are currently operating less than half their pre-Covid service - 4tph out of Euston in the standard hour vs 9tph.

In combination with other operators' cancellations and reductions, it is leaving numerous flows with massive gaps between fast services - or services at all, in some cases.

Similarly over at XC, where the roughly halved Voyager timetable has been further reduced since 29 November as a result of the withdrawal of Rest Day Working by ASLEF.

It's like night and day.

XC can't even be bothered to put double Voyagers on all their Manchesters let alone reinstate the Bristols/Exeters! Obviously 2tph and double sets would be the most ideal but we have to make do.
 

Horizon22

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Perhaps, but Southeastern who are a commuter TOC are now committing to restoring their Dec 21 timetable by next week.

Which is NOT the same as a Dec '19 (i.e pre-Covid) timetable. I doubt any commuter TOCs will go fully back to that when you consider all the peak extras and strengthened services.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Which is NOT the same as a Dec '19 (i.e pre-Covid) timetable. I doubt any commuter TOCs will go fully back to that when you consider all the peak extras and strengthened services.
Very unlikely but Dec21 was best service level since Mar20 so its good that SE are just getting on with it unlike their neighbour SWR which is dire.
 

Huntergreed

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I agree that this is good news. The demand on many of the LNER services I have travelled on has indeed shown that a full return to the 2019 timetable was a necessary move in the near future.

I truly do hope that Avanti and Scotrail follow suit fairly soon. Comparing ECML services form Scotland (2-3 per hour) to WCML services (1 per hour from Glasgow, 1 per 2 hours from Edinburgh), it's quite abysmal.

I also hope to see the Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham Avanti services restored (although I am concerned that Blackpool will replace Glasgow as the terminus for these and that change may become permanent)
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I agree that this is good news. The demand on many of the LNER services I have travelled on has indeed shown that a full return to the 2019 timetable was a necessary move in the near future.

I truly do hope that Avanti and Scotrail follow suit fairly soon. Comparing ECML services form Scotland (2-3 per hour) to WCML services (1 per hour from Glasgow, 1 per 2 hours from Edinburgh), it's quite abysmal.

I also hope to see the Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham Avanti services restored (although I am concerned that Blackpool will replace Glasgow as the terminus for these and that change may become permanent)
It also shows that the aborted May 22 TT change should be implemented from May 23.
 

Horizon22

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Very unlikely but Dec21 was best service level since Mar20 so its good that SE are just getting on with it unlike their neighbour SWR which is dire.

High Speed users may beg to differ. But yes certainly more positive than their neighbours at SWR or GTR.
 

43055

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XC can't even be bothered to put double Voyagers on all their Manchesters let alone reinstate the Bristols/Exeters! Obviously 2tph and double sets would be the most ideal but we have to make do.
That's because there is not enough to double up every service. Partly made worse by HST's only being used on Sundays. If you think the Manchester route is bad then look at the South West - North East route. 8 out of 15 services between Birmingham and Leeds today are 4 cars!
 

Mag_seven

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Avanti are only operating an hourly service to Manchester and Birmingham at the moment when it should be 3 per hour. Do they really have that many staff self isolating that that is the best they can provide?
 

infobleep

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No, it was due to the speed that the timetable had to be put in, which precluded the planners being able to do it in time - the DfT wanted “COVID secure” timetables in by the 17th. So a previous one was just “taken off the shelf” and implemented.

These timetables were supposed to run to the 21st of February, when, if the COVID situation improved, they would revert to the December 2021 timetable, as long as the TOC resources were there and there wasn’t any IR issues. Last week the DfT told the TOCs (& NR) to bring it forward and the current plan is to do this on the 14th with TOCs under instructions to try and limit overcrowding in the meantime, by inserting trains back, if possible.
What does IR stand for? I will miss having three fast trains an hour from Guildford to Clapham Junction. Not that I travel on them all the time but they are handy when I want to vers just 1 fast train an hour.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Avanti are only operating an hourly service to Manchester and Birmingham at the moment when it should be 3 per hour. Do they really have that many staff self isolating that that is the best they can provide?
Case rates have declined considerably in all English regions since first week of January so you would have expect there to have been more of an issue a few weeks ago. As @Clarence Yard quotes above operators are supposed to be reinstating what they can to deal with overcrowding although I suspect that wasn't the case on AWC outside of Fri-Sun as many trains ran around half empty even pre covid during the middle of the day.
 

NSE

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As @JonathanH says most were introduced in October, and one final round trip to make up a two-hourly service was added at the following December timetable.


That's fair enough but of course it's all a very different situation to what is mainly happening at LNER isn't it.
No of course there are differences, but people use Avanti to commute from Milton Keynes and LNER from Peterborough for example, plus Birmingham New Street to Euston is quicker than Littlehampton to Victoria or Weymouth to Waterloo which are commuter services. Totally agree there are big differences but I think there is some overlap
 

Class83

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Avanti are only operating an hourly service to Manchester and Birmingham at the moment when it should be 3 per hour. Do they really have that many staff self isolating that that is the best they can provide?
Case rates peaked at 5-10% testing positive (ONS data, just after New Year, varied a bit by region) and vaccinated contacts can now do testing rather than isolate. The Birmingham & Manchester cut to 1/hour is the biggest percentage, but it does seem a lot more than the likely percentage of covid related absence, and even with other services which are hourly or less and more difficult to reduce, the overall service reduction must be much more than 10%.

Has anyone been on these trains to notice how heavily loaded they are?
 

Chester1

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Which is NOT the same as a Dec '19 (i.e pre-Covid) timetable. I doubt any commuter TOCs will go fully back to that when you consider all the peak extras and strengthened services.

I hope ToCs do not go back to their pre covid timetables. They should return to their pre covid standard frequencies but abandon the vast majority of peak time extras. They are not necessary for the forseeable future and are responsible for many of the reliability issues.
 

Horizon22

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I hope ToCs do not go back to their pre covid timetables. They should return to their pre covid standard frequencies but abandon the vast majority of peak time extras. They are not necessary for the forseeable future and are responsible for many of the reliability issues.

Indeed - a small reduction in services may have have a disproprtionately benefical impact on reliability & punctuality due to a potentially large reduction in reactionary delays.
 

Toby268

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I agree that this is good news. The demand on many of the LNER services I have travelled on has indeed shown that a full return to the 2019 timetable was a necessary move in the near future.

I truly do hope that Avanti and Scotrail follow suit fairly soon. Comparing ECML services form Scotland (2-3 per hour) to WCML services (1 per hour from Glasgow, 1 per 2 hours from Edinburgh), it's quite abysmal.

I also hope to see the Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham Avanti services restored (although I am concerned that Blackpool will replace Glasgow as the terminus for these and that change may become permanent)
Glasgow services via brum was planned to restart next timetable change, wether it be a 2 hourly service or not like it used to be is unknown although had heard it was the plan. Likelihood of that happening is now unlikely, for various reasons, crew resources being a big one, non covid related. I believe the franchise commitment is only for a certain amount of west mids to Scotland services to run anyway and currently this is all covered by just the Edinburgh services. The current once daily northbound service to Glasgow via the west mids can be relatively busy, especially on a Saturday.
 

Bald Rick

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Has anyone been on these trains to notice how heavily loaded they are?

Yes - and not busy at all. Nowhere near as busy as in November, for example, when there were twice as many.

A significant factor here is that both LNER and Southeastern are under direct Government control.

Also LNER is a very ‘Revenue positive’ operator, ie almost all LNER services bring in more cash than they cost to run, even now, in stark contrast to most other services.
 

infobleep

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Indeed - a small reduction in services may have have a disproprtionately benefical impact on reliability & punctuality due to a potentially large reduction in reactionary delays.
Well, it didn't happen in the Brighton mainline tonight. Train from Littlehampton was delayed due to a speed restriction. It should depart Haywards Heath at 17:42 but it departed at 17:49. This held up the 17:46 to Bedford that also got held up behind the 17:50 train to London Bridge that was also late but had now overtaken it. So Bedford train departed 10 minutes late, having only been 2 minutes late departing Brighton.

Perhaps these trains are not spaced out enough.
 

Falcon1200

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Glasgow services via brum was planned to restart next timetable change, wether it be a 2 hourly service or not like it used to be is unknown although had heard it was the plan. Likelihood of that happening is now unlikely, for various reasons, crew resources being a big one, non covid related. I believe the franchise commitment is only for a certain amount of west mids to Scotland services to run anyway and currently this is all covered by just the Edinburgh services.

Admitting to a vested interest as I use, or rather used, the service regularly, the almost complete absence of direct trains between Scotland's largest city and England's second city, both via the WCML and the slower ECML, really is a total disgrace. If Avanti do not re-instate the Glasgow via West Midlands services they should, as an absolute minimum, add a call at Crewe to the Euston/Glasgow fasts every other hour (when there is no Edinburgh service).
 
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