LNER were seriously proposing airline style check-in for rail travel?!

[midland1]

You get to York from Malton going to Peterborough your train you were to catch is late, but the one before that which would have gone already is also late so you just get on that on. That is how works here, if you want to reserve a seat you CAN do buts its up to you. If you got to where you are going and say you are an hour late getting there to might decide to stop an hour longer and come back on a later train, you cannot do that with reservations you would have to come back on the earlier train and have a shorter day out.

 

[nwales58]

Uk rail long distance checkin clearly is about capacity management, between softish LNER or hard for HS2. Airline practices are irrelevant.

Once in use it will 'prove' that compulsory reservations a) work and b) are A Good Thing. Check-in will commit you to using your flexible ticket on the train you reserved provisionally. Fail to check in by the 5-10 minute threshold and your seat goes to the next person on the waitlist, very fair if you are that person. Unfair if you have not bought the changeable-AFTER-departure premium ticket.

To see that boarding checks can be made to work look at France, Spain (where 1-2 people handle a full 350 seat train at Atocha or Sants) and especially China where a 1200 seat train gets loaded in about 10 minutes at Beijing West (albeit with Chinese shoutiness and people walking over one another).

I don't like it, but it is the future.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it's reservation only, no standing allowed, and we assume that all services are at a fairly high occupancy (say 80%) how could they recover after a cancellation? (How do Ryanair do it?)

Largely by telling people to eff off, often for very long periods.

To be fair if HS2 is running 400m units then there's a LOT of capacity and it's unlikely all trains will be sold out, though it may be an issue on e.g. 24/12.

Once in use it will 'prove' that compulsory reservations a) work and b) are A Good Thing. Check-in will commit you to using your flexible ticket on the train you reserved provisionally. Fail to check in by the 5-10 minute threshold and your seat goes to the next person on the waitlist

None of the European compulsory reservation operators do waitlists or standby. That's a US airline/Indian railways practice. Even European airlines don't do it.

Check-in has nothing whatsoever to do with compulsory reservations. You can have either without the other.

 

[158747]

I've an idea this was due to concern about the effect of tilting on standing passengers.

I don’t think that would be the case, as the tilting action of the APT eliminated the lateral g-force when on bends, so standing on an APT would have been similar to standing on a non tilting train.

 

[Topological]

Uk rail long distance checkin clearly is about capacity management, between softish LNER or hard for HS2. Airline practices are irrelevant.

Once in use it will 'prove' that compulsory reservations a) work and b) are A Good Thing. Check-in will commit you to using your flexible ticket on the train you reserved provisionally. Fail to check in by the 5-10 minute threshold and your seat goes to the next person on the waitlist, very fair if you are that person. Unfair if you have not bought the changeable-AFTER-departure premium ticket.

To see that boarding checks can be made to work look at France, Spain (where 1-2 people handle a full 350 seat train at Atocha or Sants) and especially China where a 1200 seat train gets loaded in about 10 minutes at Beijing West (albeit with Chinese shoutiness and people walking over one another).

I don't like it, but it is the future.

Chinese stations benefit from large waiting areas and only allow people to go to the platform for the specific train. They are more like airports in that way.

The closest I saw to potential confusion is when two trains are booked within 10 minutes of each other from the same island. That happened a few times at one station I used regularly. No doubt people bought tickets for the cheaper "D" and took the "G" (G are the fastest set and more expensive per km than the D).

I didnt see any walking over each other though, mostly people just lined up next to the number for the coach they were reserved in.

We just do not have the station sizes for such a system in the UK though.

 

[chris_in_salop]

It will be quicker to drive.

(As well as cheaper, more comfortable and door-to-door)

 

[edwin_m]

It's a lot faster for most journeys. For London to Edinburgh it really comes down to where you're going to or from in either city, but for anything further (e.g. London to Aberdeen) let alone journeys where CrossCountry is the alternative (e.g. Southampton to Manchester, Bristol to Edinburgh), the plane wins hands down.

I regularly find flying between London and Manchester the fastest option, too. Of course that only works if you're connecting to or from another flight - if you were heading to central London the train would win.

It may be faster for most journeys where there is a decent air service provided. There are many journeys where flying can't really compete with the train, so there are unsurprisingly few or no flights available. The number where flying is quicker overall is pretty small as a proportion of the total number of rail plus air journeys.

 

[Falcon1200]

Avanti at Glasgow come close to a check in at Platforms 1 and 2. People queue up and tickets often checked before boarding.

That is not a check in, just a ticket check.

 

[Tester]

Arguably LNER already operate a check in at King's Cross, as do Avanti at Euston.

The check in time is 2 minutes.

 

[irp]

That is not a check in, just a ticket check.

If that. Experienced that a few weeks ago. No ticket check, just a long queue past the still closed Beer Engine, until the barriers were removed

 

[dk1]

Thank goodness none of this squit was ever taken seriously. Long live a proper walk up railway in the UK.

 

[greyman42]

To see that boarding checks can be made to work look at France, Spain (where 1-2 people handle a full 350 seat train at Atocha or Sants) and especially China where a 1200 seat train gets loaded in about 10 minutes at Beijing West (albeit with Chinese shoutiness and people walking over one another).

I don't like it, but it is the future.

Not in this country.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not in this country.

Boarding checks aren't check in. They are done at Euston.

 

[greyman42]

Boarding checks aren't check in. They are done at Euston.

I can't see it becoming common for rail travel in this country.

 

[route101]

That is not a check in, just a ticket check.

Yes, but it has been in place since Covid and still here.

 

[Benjwri]

Well precisely, which is why I doubt HS2 has actually done this

HS2 tunnels are not designed to only evacuate seated passengers. The design parameters specify the number of seated passengers for doubled up train, 1,100, but extra standing passengers are then taken into account. HS1 was specified for 800 passengers, but has no capacity restrictions on a Javelin, and Class 374’s pass through every day with 902 seats. There is room in the standards to allow standing passengers, if the services are reservation only it will be for other reasons.

 

[PeterC]

I can see value in some form of regulated boarding on long distance services but the existing infrastructure isn't designed to support it. As the old saying goes "if I was going there I wouldn't start from here".

 

[Benjwri]

I can see value in some form of regulated boarding on long distance services but the existing infrastructure isn't designed to support it. As the old saying goes "if I was going there I wouldn't start from here".

Not to mention this would cause restrictions on ticket sales, and therefore for a number of TOCs a reduction in sales, therefore prices would increase in some cases significantly to make up for loss of revenue.

 

[Krokodil]

Not to mention this would cause restrictions on ticket sales, and therefore for a number of TOCs a reduction in sales, therefore prices would increase in some cases significantly to make up for loss of revenue.

Avanti already restrict ticket sales (you can still buy a walk-up ticket if you know how and just get on without a reservation but Joe Public may see "no tickets available" and believe it).

 

[Benjwri]

Avanti already restrict ticket sales (you can still buy a walk-up ticket if you know how and just get on without a reservation but Joe Public may see "no tickets available" and believe it).

Yeah Avanti do, however HS2’s business case would be built on no standing anyways, and I was thinking of many other long distance TOCs who do not, GWR, XC, TPE, all of whole have a large amount of routes with trains usually leaving with standing passengers.

 

[Krokodil]

Yeah Avanti do, however HS2’s business case would be built on no standing anyways, and I was thinking of many other long distance TOCs who do not, GWR, XC, TPE, all of whole have a large amount of routes with trains usually leaving with standing passengers.

Well you know that my answer in the case of XC would be "run proper length trains" and in the case of TPE would be "run a full timetable". Those two would have difficulty with compulsory reservations anyway as they don't have dedicated gatelines for each platform at most stations, unlike those operators who run out of London terminals.

 

[PeterC]

Not to mention this would cause restrictions on ticket sales, and therefore for a number of TOCs a reduction in sales, therefore prices would increase in some cases significantly to make up for loss of revenue.

Seat regulation was used on some routes by British Railways. We aren't talking about anything new.

 

[Benjwri]

Seat regulation was used on some routes by British Railways. We aren't talking about anything new.

Yes but the issue is the DfT is not going to approve a change which decreases revenue when they already are having budget cuts demanded by the treasury. This would great decrease ticket revenue on some TOCs, and cost money for staffing to police it.

 

[philthetube]

To see that boarding checks can be made to work look at France, Spain (where 1-2 people handle a full 350 seat train at Atocha or Sants) and especially China where a 1200 seat train gets loaded in about 10 minutes at Beijing West (albeit with Chinese shoutiness and people walking over one another).

I don't like it, but it is the future.

additionally staff needed at at Stevenage and all stations to Scotland

50+

 

[Oxfordblues]

Seat regulation was used on some routes by British Railways. We aren't talking about anything new.

Yes, I worked at Blackpool North in the early-1970s and on summer Saturdays many trains required regulation tickets, the number of which was limited by the seating capacity of each train. (This was during the "Glorious Years"!)

 

[HSTEd]

I can see value in some form of regulated boarding on long distance services but the existing infrastructure isn't designed to support it. As the old saying goes "if I was going there I wouldn't start from here".

We don't really have long distance services as they exist elsewhere.

I honestly cannot see any reason at all for compulsory reservations. A lot of people seem to want them because they are something "proper" railways on the Continent or elsewhere have. They provide no benefits in the British context at all.

 

[midland1]

We don't really have long distance services as they exist elsewhere.

I honestly cannot see any reason at all for compulsory reservations. A lot of people seem to want them because they are something "proper" railways on the Continent or elsewhere have. They provide no benefits in the British context at all.

If say you lived in Wigan and wanted to see a friend in Wolverhampton for the day, you go down to the station and are told there is a seat on say the 12.30 but nothing before you just would not go.

 

[HSTEd]

If say you lived in Wigan and wanted to see a friend in Wolverhampton for the day, you go down to the station and are told there is a seat on say the 12.30 but nothing before you just would not go.

Well I would go back to my house and take the car to Wolverhampton and be done with it.

Passengers aren't captive to the railway, other transport methods are available. If the railway doesn't want the passengers the motorway system will hoover them up.

 

[Jozhua]

I strongly agree with the sentiment of preserving 'walk up' fares as much as possible. I worry this is getting eroded with booking apps getting people accustomed to booking specific trains, even when buying open returns.

Our rail system should be moving towards being able to turn up without even checking a timetable, nevermind needing to book a ticket in advance!

On the 'check in' thing, obviously there is the airline comparison, although airlines are trying to ditch check in where possible, in favour of self-bag drop and online check in. Ultimately I think it's mistaking the addition of process as progress in and of itself.

To stop crush loading, ECML wiring needs to be renewed, because right now wires are coming down with every storm event, which isn't good enough. That's NR remit, but needs fixing. Increasing 9 car sets to 10 cars would also help.

ECML is otherwise a bit snookered on capacity, unfortunately, without major upgrades or diversion via full HS2.

 

[zero]

Check in for airlines is generally because they need to verify you admissibility to the destination country, have time to load larger bags to the hold and for the pilots to obtain a rough weight of what's on board. None of which are needed for domestic train journeys (yet??)

Because of the reservation thing I dislike travelling by (high-speed) train in the Romance-speaking countries and much prefer it in the German-speaking countries.