LNWR service from Liverpool to Birmingham and London.

[RealTrains07]

It's getting one, it is part of First-Trenitalia's franchise bid for the former VTWC service.

Cause that’s cheaper than LNR

 

[notlob.divad]

There are some ridiculous comments on here. Totally unsurprising. For the record, I would much rather walk between Lime Street and Central than experience the same between Euston and St. Pancras. I would have had everything Camden experienced before I reached Euston Road. - Anyway, enough of that.

It appears to me that in their infinite wisdom, the TOCs and DfT have failed to learn from the mistakes they made in Manchester and have applied exactly the same failed solution to Birmingham. In theory it is a good idea, link trains from opposite sides to form cross services, keep the platforms empty and better utilise the resouces. Whilst simultaneously increasing the number of services that can run.

However, as with every wonderful theoretical solution it fails miserably when it meets the cold hard truth of reality. Minor delays in one part of the network previously would easily have been compensated for at the following turnaround, insteead they snowball and cause knock-on effects across the entire network. To have made the mistake once, is an error. To make the same mistake again seems to me to be inexcuseable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the record, I would much rather walk between Lime Street and Central than experience the same between Euston and St. Pancras.

Walking via the "back route" (round the back of the British Library and through the courtyard of one of the estates) I've never experienced anything like that. But that said it does feel a bit dodgy being in backstreet central London late at night.

But really, it's just a city, they're all the same. If you don't like cities you'd best use the Loop or look for a different way to make the journey. But to those of us who are used to cities, it's really not a great issue. I have done it hundreds of times without issue.

Is it a bit rough? Yes. Are you going to get stabbed, thumped, shot or get your wallet nicked? Almost certainly not.

 

[urbophile]

You would have made a fantastic photographer the way you enlarge everything.

Its a 5 minute walk from Central station to Lime street, you cross Ranelagh street then along to Great Charlotte street then over Lime street to the station. Its a very well trodden walk and none of anything you mentioned at all!

At night it isn't pleasant. But too many people around (albeit many of them p***ed) for there to be any real danger. Drunk scousers are fine if you humour them. During the day (up to 19.00) it's better to walk straight through the Clayton Square mini-mall (immediately opposite Central station) then turn right to take the ramp which leads from Aldi up to the bus stops, Sainsbury's, and the pedestrian crossing on Lime Street.

If HS2/NPR or anything remotely like it ever comes to pass, Central and Lime Street should be more integrated and there could well be a travelator or two. After all, as has been said, it's not much further than getting to 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly, and a lot nearer than getting between terminals at Manchester Airport.

 

[frodshamfella]

So is it likely that LNW will keep this as a through service or revert back ? They must be aware of problems.

 

[sufian123]

So is it likely that LNW will keep this as a through service or revert back ? They must be aware of problems.

seems like they are going to keep it this way. It hasn’t got complaints compared to Rugeley to Euston via Birmingham has. No MPs or local residents involved as far as I know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

seems like they are going to keep it this way. It hasn’t got complaints compared to Rugeley to Euston via Birmingham has. No MPs or local residents involved as far as I know.

It certainly has got complaints from us on the south WCML as it's messed up what was a very reliable service into one that simply can't be relied on in any form.

 

[gazzaa2]

Yeah understand you, I was just picking up someone at Runcorn who had got off a Delhi flight at Birmingham, so not having to change at New Street with luggage is a bonus.

That's true, although a lot of the extra passengers using the service tend to be going to International. There's far more luggage on board now and given it's a busy train and not the best rolling stock for luggage etc it makes the journey a bit more claustrophobic at times.

 

[sufian123]

It certainly has got complaints from us on the south WCML as it's messed up what was a very reliable service into one that simply can't be relied on in any form.

That’s not enough compared to Rugeley ones not being terminating on time. If MPs gets involved and press meetings takes place then off course something will be done .

 

[gazzaa2]

Don't speak to me like that.

FYI I last did the walk last night at 9pm.

I was accosted for change before I even descended the steps at Lime Street (and verbally abused for ignoring), crossed the road to Sainsbury's, walked past the smelly bus stops where more down and outs were hanging around, round the bend to see two people dossing in sleeping bags in an alcove (again the place smelling of pee), again asked for money by other tramps/alkies/druggies, walked past the entrance to a car park where there were three such individuals engaged in furtive meeting, one of who glowered at me making it clear I'm to carry on walking. Past the various pubs of inequity containing various middle aged/old men crooning their addled hearts out (into the street), finally crossing the street to central, past two final down and outs (and amid a cacophany of druggie shouting coming from further down the street at the Church Street intersection).

Rancid, is what I'd call that, and embarrassed is what you should be.

There's no way I'd suggest anyone walk that route, if they had a choice. And if it was an old person I would actually tell them not to, whether that offends your inverse snobbery or not.

Concentrate your anger on those who have the power to clean your city up, not someone who simply has eyes, ears and a working sense of smell.

Being from the city myself it isn't the most pleasant as I do the same walk every day and you get the same characters hanging around that you would by another major station. I think that's just the way cities are now. Councils have been cut to the bone and social problems have arisen. There's tramps, beggars and addicts in the vicinity of most major train stations and at various other vantatge points. London is probably the worst of all for it.

I've walked from Euston to Kings Cross and had a similar experience or Oxford Road to Victoria.

 

[HLE]

That would be an idea, they'd have to make it all the way to Liverpool first though. Ha ha.

I guess crewing issues could come in to it but I would say the fact it is a four hour journey from Euston to Lime Street stopping at some ridiculous places like Canley. Why does it stop at Canley and not West Allerton or Mossley Hill. (I'm not seriously asking for it to stop at those stations of course. Ha ha).

It stops at Canley because the Virgin and Crosscountry services don't! Back in May a lot of services from Euston used to terminate at New Street, now they carry onto Rugeley and Lime Street. It's joined up 2 long distance but still predominantly 'local' services.

Through trains - recipe for disaster if not thought out through properly. Look at the Rugeley's, always terminating early at hednesford. The Liverpool's suffer the same as you've alluded to above. The new Leamington - Nuneaton through service now suffers delays where the old shuttle didn't.

It might benefit a handful of passengers to have through services, but it inconveniences the many when they're late or terminated early. In my opinion, there's too many people interfering with the railway trying to score points. These joined up services might look good in the papers but they've caused a downturn in reliability. On all routes.

Doesn't help that morale is low and WMT finds themselves short of staff daily.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Don't speak to me like that.

FYI I last did the walk last night at 9pm.

I can only assume then that things have gone downhill dramatically since I last did the journey on Thursday.

Is it a bit rough? Yes. Are you going to get (...) shot (...)? Almost certainly not.

Merseyside now provides doorstep delivery of this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.li.../several-shots-fired-city-street-17018881.amp

 

[fowler9]

Regarding the stroll from Central to Lime Street it certainly isn't the most pleasant in the world but I have had equally bad if not worse in London, Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow etc.

 

[Kestral HS4000]

X Country use New st to make time up for late trains if on time they can sit at a platform for 15 mins

 

[sufian123]

X Country use New st to make time up for late trains if on time they can sit at a platform for 15 mins

For CrossCountry it’s a major hub is new st. It’s a core route for them

 

[scotrail158713]

Regarding the stroll from Central to Lime Street it certainly isn't the most pleasant in the world but I have had equally bad if not worse in London, Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow etc.

Yeah. I remember walking with my Dad from Glasgow Central to Queen Street at approximately 10.30pm one Saturday when I was 12. That opened my eyes to all sorts of things.

 

[trainophile]

Yeah. I remember walking with my Dad from Glasgow Central to Queen Street at approximately 10.30pm one Saturday when I was 12. That opened my eyes to all sorts of things.

How late do the shuttle buses run between the two?

 

[AndrewE]

Yeah. I remember walking with my Dad from Glasgow Central to Queen Street at approximately 10.30pm one Saturday when I was 12. That opened my eyes to all sorts of things.

Not as much fun as being flashed by a hen party in the middle of Glasgow on a Friday afternoon though! Another memory/reminiscence prompted... I must be getting old...

 

[causton]

How late do the shuttle buses run between the two?

https://bustimes.org/services/398-glasgow-inter-station-service
Only until 8pm.

 

[trainophile]

https://bustimes.org/services/398-glasgow-inter-station-service
Only until 8pm.

Oh that's a shame. Can't expect a 24 hour service though.

 

[scotrail158713]

Not as much fun as being flashed by a hen party in the middle of Glasgow on a Friday afternoon though! Another memory/reminiscence prompted... I must be getting old...

Oh that's a shame. Can't expect a 24 hour service though.

I did the same change a few months ago and walking was quicker for me anyway. And to be honest the type of people who use that bus probably aren’t in central Glasgow at 10.30pm anyway.

 

[LowLevel]

Regarding the stroll from Central to Lime Street it certainly isn't the most pleasant in the world but I have had equally bad if not worse in London, Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow etc.

Ranelagh Street McDonalds is somewhat akin to the Wild West at certain times but I wouldn't call the general area particularly threatening.

Oh for the good old days of the 24/7 cafe and San San Chinese, both traincrew staples and now just a memory. 5am in the 24/7 cafe attracted every type of person in the world.

 

[Matt_pool]

I've just walked from Central to Lime Street. In fact I do it several times a week.

If you ignore the "homeless" beggars (people asking for funds to pay for their heroin/spice addiction) the biggest danger is tripping on the uneven paving stones that Liverpool City Council can't be arsed repairing (plenty of money to waste on that useless bus hub at Old Haymarket though!).

And once you dodge the Deliveroo and Uber Eats cyclists/bikers next to McDonald's and the monkeys (I mean bouncers!) outside the faux Irish pubs it's not a bad walk!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ranelagh Street McDonalds is somewhat akin to the Wild West at certain times but I wouldn't call the general area particularly threatening.

Oh for the good old days of the 24/7 cafe and San San Chinese, both traincrew staples and now just a memory. 5am in the 24/7 cafe attracted every type of person in the world.

I remember getting scalding coffee in a polystyrene cup from there long before the Costa started flogging fancy stuff by the barrier line.

 

[frodshamfella]

It stops at Canley because the Virgin and Crosscountry services don't! Back in May a lot of services from Euston used to terminate at New Street, now they carry onto Rugeley and Lime Street. It's joined up 2 long distance but still predominantly 'local' services.

Through trains - recipe for disaster if not thought out through properly. Look at the Rugeley's, always terminating early at hednesford. The Liverpool's suffer the same as you've alluded to above. The new Leamington - Nuneaton through service now suffers delays where the old shuttle didn't.

It might benefit a handful of passengers to have through services, but it inconveniences the many when they're late or terminated early. In my opinion, there's too many people interfering with the railway trying to score points. These joined up services might look good in the papers but they've caused a downturn in reliability. On all routes.

Doesn't help that morale is low and WMT finds themselves short of staff daily.

I would usually travel Acton Bridge to Lime Street, fortunately I have the option of Frodsham to Lime Street, which I've pretty much switched to because the service is much more reliable than the LNW one. Transport for Wales is also cheaper, and you get to travel over the Halton Curve which is still a novelty for me.

 

[Horizon22]

However, as with every wonderful theoretical solution it fails miserably when it meets the cold hard truth of reality. Minor delays in one part of the network previously would easily have been compensated for at the following turnaround, insteead they snowball and cause knock-on effects across the entire network. To have made the mistake once, is an error. To make the same mistake again seems to me to be inexcuseable.

London has the same problem (hello Thameslink). Great in practice, horrible to resolve in disruption. To me cutting out New St seems like an ideological move, rather than anything operational. Sure it could get a bit confusing at times, but broadly the permissive working was just fine a few years back when I was commuting that way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

London has the same problem (hello Thameslink). Great in practice, horrible to resolve in disruption. To me cutting out New St seems like an ideological move, rather than anything operational. Sure it could get a bit confusing at times, but broadly the permissive working was just fine a few years back when I was commuting that way.

Does TL have the same level of interworking between the branches? I thought they were much simpler diagrams, which even with the long through services and congested centre must make it easier to unpick problems.

IOW, the problem is less that there are through services and more that units and crews are coming and going to all sorts of destinations so you can't simply bring everything back on time by cancelling a round trip and stepping up.

 

[gazzaa2]

London has the same problem (hello Thameslink). Great in practice, horrible to resolve in disruption. To me cutting out New St seems like an ideological move, rather than anything operational. Sure it could get a bit confusing at times, but broadly the permissive working was just fine a few years back when I was commuting that way.

The key is though Thameslink is a good idea in principle. This service extension isn't.

 

[Horizon22]

Does TL have the same level of interworking between the branches? I thought they were much simpler diagrams, which even with the long through services and congested centre must make it easier to unpick problems.

IOW, the problem is less that there are through services and more that units and crews are coming and going to all sorts of destinations so you can't simply bring everything back on time by cancelling a round trip and stepping up.

Not aware of exactly how much interworking there is, fairly sure its on the low side though. Decoupling stock and crew to such an extent as you ascribe always leads to problems. The length of a TL stock diagram can be about 2-3 hours though

 

[frodshamfella]

Was waiting at Crewe today for 13.33 to Lime St, im going to Acton Bridge. Service was nearly 30 mins late, in fact loads of delays being announced.
When i did get on the train it was announced the service will terminate at South Parkway.