Intercity110
On Moderation
i’m asking this after TFW extend the 67’s to manchester (and i beleve TPE are extending 68’s but i’m not sure), but have loco hauled srevices resurged in recent years? (This is just my own opinion)
Agree with everything you've said, but on a pedantic note Chiltern moved from 67s to 68s in 2014.The one loco hauled service that has lasted beyond the short term has been the Chiltern 67s, which are still clogging up the Marylebone air some years later. But their polluting days may soon be over as government cutbacks “encourage” Chiltern to ditch their non-standard stock
Wasn't TPE's purchase because of a really strange condition in the Franchise agreement?Only because DMUs were unobtainable, and redundant Mk3/4 stock was available.
The trend is towards new bi-mode units (Hitachi, Stadler).
TPE's purchase of new coaching stock was an aberration - they should have gone for more 802s.
The only condition I remember was about introducing new services by a specific date, which could apparently only be met by the CAF Mk5a build.Wasn't TPE's purchase because of a really strange condition in the Franchise agreement?
Agree with everything you've said, but on a pedantic note Chiltern moved from 67s to 68s in 2014.
Only because DMUs were unobtainable, and redundant Mk3/4 stock was available
TPE's purchase of new coaching stock was an aberration - they should have gone for more 802s.
Wasn't TPE's purchase because of a really strange condition in the Franchise agreement?
The particular date will have been a franchise commitment and might have been about releasing existing stock.
They ended up briefly hiring in and running some Mk3’s to ‘hack’ the loco hauled stock in service date anyway, which was fairly ridiculous.The only condition I remember was about introducing new services by a specific date, which could apparently only be met by the CAF Mk5a build.
But of course that date was fanciful anyway, and the Nova 3 fleet has spent most of its life in sidings since then, while 185s are retained in service.
The 802s were delivered close to schedule, and being clones of GWR/Hull Trains units had no introduction issues.
Then we've had the saga of noisy class 68s being expelled from Scarborough, and the TPU project will require an electric/bi-mode solution.
It also made TPE a 4-fleet operation (805, 397, Mk5a, 185), with only the existing 185 fleet being of reasonable size.
Again, TPE use 68sIn hindsight, a couple of dozen more 802s would have been a lot better than mucking about with 67s and 397s (maybe even a few more to remove all 185s from the Leeds route?)
I suspect it was a case of one TT Change date or the next one 6 months later.But who at the Government decided this silly deadline? Have TPE been forced into the problems of several small fleets because a Civil Servant decided that an artificially early date would free up dozens of 185s (even though TPE have all of them still)
Only TFW USE 67'S in the WTT, all others are either:Again, TPE use 68s
I suspect it was a case of one TT Change date or the next one 6 months later.
There was a requirement in the TPE tender docs to use 5-car loco hauled formations. DfT were trying to push bidders towards hauling 442s around, but the winning bid had new build. Entirely compliant with the tender docs, but not what DfT really wanted!The only condition I remember was about introducing new services by a specific date, which could apparently only be met by the CAF Mk5a build.
But of course that date was fanciful anyway*, and the Nova 3 fleet has spent most of its life in sidings since then, while 185s are retained in service.
The 802s were delivered close to schedule, and being clones of similar GWR/Hull Trains units had no introduction issues.
Then we've had the saga of noisy class 68s being expelled from Scarborough, and the TRU project will require an electric/bi-mode solution.
It also made TPE a 4-fleet operation (805, 397, Mk5a, 185), with only the existing 185 fleet being of reasonable size.
*wasn't the commitment actually met by a few late-December runs from Manchester Airport-Piccadilly using a Mk3 set?
66? They’re for freight onlyOnly TFW USE 67'S in the WTT, all others are either:
68
92
73
66
91's.
Well, DB do run passenger services with them in WTT pathsOnly TFW USE 67'S in the WTT, all others are either:
In actual fact the 68s are right at the end of the platform and cause way less pollution within the station than all of the bog units sitting under the station roof with their engines chugging away.clogging up the Marylebone air
I hope Chiltern don't get rid of their loco hauled services, I find them very good to travel on.Agree with everything you've said, but on a pedantic note Chiltern moved from 67s to 68s in 2014.
The point at the time was to procure new stock for the December 2017 timetable change which was thought to be unattainable with a new build of multiple units (there were serious proposals in the industry to use 67s+442s, First was the only bidder not to propose that). In the event it was a moot point as not only the stock was late but the timetable change happened late too...But who at the Government decided this silly deadline? Have TPE been forced into the problems of several small fleets because a Civil Servant decided that an artificially early date would free up dozens of 185s (even though TPE have all of them still)?
They ended up briefly hiring in and running some Mk3’s to ‘hack’ the loco hauled stock in service date anyway, which was fairly ridiculous.
Again, TPE use 68s
In actual fact the 68s are right at the end of the platform and cause way less pollution within the station than all of the bog units sitting under the station roof with their engines chugging away.
The point at the time was to procure new stock for the December 2017 timetable change which was thought to be unattainable with a new build of multiple units (there were serious proposals in the industry to use 67s+442s, First was the only bidder not to propose that). In the event it was a moot point as not only the stock was late but the timetable change happened late too...
Add 66 and 67 to Caledonian Sleeper.Well, DB do run passenger services with them in WTT paths
57 - GWR Night Riviera
68 - Chiltern and TPE,
73,92 - Caledonian Sleeper
91 - LNER (Not sure if they would still swap in a 90 if needed).
66s don't run passenger WTT services.
Well, DB do run passenger services with them in WTT paths
57 - GWR Night Riviera
68 - Chiltern and TPE,
73,92 - Caledonian Sleeper
91 - LNER (Not sure if they would still swap in a 90 if needed).
66s don't run passenger WTT services.
66? They’re for freight onlyand gatwick express haven’t used 73’s since early 2000’s(forgot about caledonial sleeper)
Thanks Tom, that's what I meant.GBRf 66s regularly haul the diesel portions of the Caledonian Sleeper, to and from Edinburgh
Tom
I had my first ride on a Chiltern 68 a few months ago however I found the 168's more comfortable. Although who cares, ITS A LOCO HAULED SERVICE!!!I hope Chiltern don't get rid of their loco hauled services, I find them very good to travel on.
Just out of interest, why is this such a big deal? I'm not trying to be obtuse or rude or anything, it's interesting to understand the emotional attachment people have to different parts of the railway.Although who cares, ITS A LOCO HAULED SERVICE!!!
Novelty, people are drawn to the more obscure parts of railway operation.Just out of interest, why is this such a big deal? I'm not trying to be obtuse or rude or anything, it's interesting to understand the emotional attachment people have to different parts of the railway.
90s last worked for LNER in 2019. They were the first to go after the 80x introduction, even NL65 outlasted the 90s by a few weeks (albeit not with any diagrammed work).91 - LNER (Not sure if they would still swap in a 90 if needed).
Those were 68's as well on the Fife Circle.I think it’s a “dead cat bounce” (The term given to something dropping so low then appearing to bounce back slightly), we could have had this thread a few years ago when the 67s on the Fife Circle and 37s on the Cumbrian Coast made it look like a loco hauled resurgence…
Just out of interest, why is this such a big deal? I'm not trying to be obtuse or rude or anything, it's interesting to understand the emotional attachment people have to different parts of the railway.
I'm not sure it's quite that- or else why would enthusiasts have been attracted to chasing locos and avoiding DMUs when the former were commonplace prior to the 90s?Novelty, people are drawn to the more obscure parts of railway operation.
yes, but the locals complaining live near the country end of the platforms.In actual fact the 68s are right at the end of the platform and cause way less pollution within the station than all of the bog units sitting under the station roof with their engines chugging away.
Partly, not sharing a vehicle with several hundred horsepower of traction equipment (especially if it's a diesel engine) has some attractionJust out of interest, why is (loco haulage) such a big deal? I'm not trying to be obtuse or rude or anything, it's interesting to understand the emotional attachment people have to different parts of the railway.
Not scheduled, but more often than not 66's can be found at the head of the Caledonian Sleeper - but didn't I read somewhere that 67s were returning to that role?66? They’re for freight onlyand gatwick express haven’t used 73’s since early 2000’s(forgot about caledonial sleeper)
GBRF have bought a couple of 67s and one has been running on the Inverness portion at least.Not scheduled, but more often than not 66's can be found at the head of the Caledonian Sleeper - but didn't I read somewhere that 67s were returning to that role?