Loco Hauled trains in Scotland

[Shaw S Hunter]

Another less expected run in the early/mid 1970s was Deltics through to Aberdeen. General wisdom was they were confined to Edinburgh to Kings Cross, but they did make periodic appearances at Aberdeen, often going Down in the afternoon and returning with the sleeper. Colleague lived within earshot of the line at Stonehaven and said their distinctive noise always got his attention. Must have been turns with Haymarket crews throughout, though it was still common then to change crews at Dundee.

Even just a cursory look through the pages of the Napier-chronicles site suggests that Deltics were fairly common visitors to Aberdeen from very early in their careers. But accurate logging of such events is very patchy with such enthusiasts as there were in that part of the country probably more concerned with things like A4s on Aberdeen-Glasgows, etc. It also appears that the most reliable turns to Aberdeen were late evening turn-rounds there so less likely to be noticed in any case. Although my railway interest only started in 1975 I always had the impression that Deltics working north of Edinburgh was wholly unremarkable but relatively few enthusiasts ventured that way once steam had finished.

 

[Taunton]

Even just a cursory look through the pages of the Napier-chronicles site suggests that Deltics were fairly common visitors to Aberdeen from very early in their careers.

That seems a bit misleading, for it doesn't cover loco changes. For example, in the 1973 one it shows the Edinburgh-Paignton, and v.v. service, but I don't think even they think the Deltics got down to Devon. And likewise the loco changes I recall at Edinburgh Waverley are notable by their absence. Deltic off, Class 47 on. And if Haymarket didn't have one to hand, a Class 40. Which they occasionally continued to do, despite their lack of ETH, when there was air conditioned stock. I suspect a few non-ETH Class 47 got roped in as well.

That Paignton train, running via York and Birmingham, was a new service that year. I was amused to hear it being jocularly referred to in Edinburgh as the "Torbay Express". At a time when WCML daytime services were still very sparse due to electrification works, it was immediately successful. I never actually used it from Edinburgh to Taunton. A friend from Rugby started to use it from Edinburgh, changing at Birmingham. But in the several times I saw her off on it, it was always a Class 47.

 

[randyrippley]

Until the 47/7 came to the Push-Pull in 1980 there were no Class 47 allocated in Scotland. However, there were plenty around, operated from depots south of the border on extended diagrams. Glasgow-Aberdeen and Inverness were commonly Crewe locos, and Edinburgh-Aberdeen were ECML locos, many from Gateshead. Crewe locos even turned up on Glasgow-Kilmarnock-Carlisle and Glasgow-Stranraer services.

Not true.
I've got a 1972 Ian Allen locoshed book and it shows 1968-1976 allocated to 64B - Haymarket

 

[randyrippley]

Were any XCs services in Scotland operated by 47s ?

Most of the XC services which came down from Scotland via Lancaster were 85 or 81 hauled, replaced by 86 when the earlier models were finally withdrawn


edit- corrected 83 to 85

 

[randyrippley]

Yes, this discussion could ramble on for a long time quoting the oddities. Unfortunately the OP was not very discriminating with their initial query as "on Scotrail" is somewhat ambiguous. I will however add my most unexpected working, that of Inverness based 47541, in full Highland Rail regalia, on a Waterloo-Salisbury in September 1986!

When the 50's were in their final state of collapse, almost any 47 that moved was pressed into service on Waterloo-Exeter.

 

[route101]

Most of the XC services which came down from Scotland via Lancaster were 83 or 81 hauled, replaced by 86 when the earlier models were finally withdrawn

What about the ECML ?

 

[randyrippley]

What about the ECML ?

No idea..........they didn't come through Lancaster so I never saw them...........

More seriously, the 8x locomotives were never rostered on the ECML. Any XC flows heading that way would mainly have terminated in the Newcastle / Teeside areas and not gone to Scotland, so would have been diesel all the way. Peaks initially, later 47/4 then 47/8.
Remember that prior to the arrival of Transpennine, virtually all the XC services to Scotland went up the WCML via the Carstairs-Edinburgh route, though whether that was true before the Carstairs electrification I don't know

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

No idea..........they didn't come through Lancaster so I never saw them...........

More seriously, the 8x locomotives were never rostered on the ECML. Any XC flows heading that way would mainly have terminated in the Newcastle / Teeside areas and not gone to Scotland, so would have been diesel all the way. Peaks initially, later 47/4 then 47/8.

There was but one long-standing cross-country working north of Newcastle: the Edinburgh-Plymouth & return, which was famously a booked Deltic working north of York. The timings were such that the same loco worked the southbound and northbound legs. It was also used on at least one occasion to return a freshly refurbished 50 back to Laira from The Plant.

Remember that prior to the arrival of Transpennine, virtually all the XC services to Scotland went up the WCML via the Carstairs-Edinburgh route, though whether that was true before the Carstairs electrification I don't know

Very true. Many a basher has found themselves making a long journey north with gen about something unusual working "the portions", ie the diesel-hauled working from Carstairs-Edinburgh of a portion detached from a Glasgow train from Birmingham or Manchester. Some of the latter originally had a portion from Liverpool so between Preston and Carstairs trains were effectively two different trains coupled together, never a a common method of working though some multiple-unit services in Belgium and Holland follow a similar pattern.

 

[USRailFan]

From 1990 - 1992 Inverness depot operated a small and unreliable fleet of class "47/6s" with an increased ETH index (For working the Inverness sleeper), numbered 47671 - 677, which worked some daytime services on the Highland main line. From 1992 class 37s took over on this route (Including in pairs with a generator car on the sleeper), and Inverness - Aberdeen, and remained in use into 1994.

Wouldn't Inverness still have some 37/4s for the Kyle of Lochalsh? At least during the summer of 91 there seems to have been loco hauled trains operating here, based on Flickr pictures and Youtube vids?

 

[Far north 37]

Wouldn't Inverness still have some 37/4s for the Kyle of Lochalsh? At least during the summer of 91 there seems to have been loco hauled trains operating here, based on Flickr pictures and Youtube vids?

The class 37/4s did not have the eth capabilities for hauling the inverness sleepers.

 

[USRailFan]

The class 37/4s did not have the eth capabilities for hauling the inverness sleepers.

They definately operated on the Kyle line in 1991 tho: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwbphotos/23221840582

 

[Far north 37]

They definately operated on the Kyle line in 1991 tho: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwbphotos/23221840582

Yes operated on the kyle linefrom there introduction till the mid 90s.

 

[sprinterguy]

Wouldn't Inverness still have some 37/4s for the Kyle of Lochalsh? At least during the summer of 91 there seems to have been loco hauled trains operating here, based on Flickr pictures and Youtube vids?

There certainly were class 37s operating the Kyle line into the nineties, although from 1990 onwards these were mostly no-heat class 37s rather than 37/4s, the latter having been largely transferred south by the end of that year following Sprinterisation of Scotrail services. As the initial question regarded class 47s, I didn't feel it necessary to elaborate in my initial response.

There were around forty class 37s allocated to Inverness circa 1992/1993, which could be called upon to work a couple of Kyle line diagrams, Aberdeen - Inverness, a selection of Highland Mainline turns and the Aberdeen and Inverness sleepers (The latter in pairs). Regular daytime loco hauled passenger workings of this type bowed out in 1994, leaving the sleepers (Which were taken over by RES 47s at this point), the Royal Scotsman and charter work.

 

[Far north 37]

There certainly were class 37s operating the Kyle line into the nineties, although from 1990 onwards these were mostly no-heat class 37s rather than 37/4s, the latter having been largely transferred south by the end of that year following Sprinterisation of Scotrail services. As the initial question regarded class 47s, I didn't feel it necessary to elaborate in my initial response.

There were around forty class 37s allocated to Inverness circa 1992/1993, which could be called upon to work a couple of Kyle line diagrams, Aberdeen - Inverness, a selection of Highland Mainline turns and the Aberdeen and Inverness sleepers (The latter in pairs). Regular daytime loco hauled passenger workings of this type bowed out in 1994, leaving the sleepers (Which were taken over by RES 47s at this point), the Royal Scotsman and charter work.

There was 6 class 37/4s based at inverness during the early 90s in the rajp passenger pool 37402 404 427 428 430 431 the majority of which were else welsh locos.
But as you say quite a lot of the loco hauled services were formed from the sleeper and engineer pools

 

[47827]

There was a service leaving Inverness at 1030 to Edinburgh arriving about 1410. It then returned at 1540 from Edinburgh to Inverness arriving about 1915. In the summer timetable 1995 it was mostly still booked a 158 unit but for several weeks during the summer holidays Waterman Railways hired a set of 6 musty smelling in refurbished mk2d/e carriages off Derby to BR Scotrail sector. A second RES 47 was stationed at Inverness which would swap over with the sleeper loco if required or sometimes on the long break at Edinburgh as per 1 day I recall when 47760 switched to 47747. The diagram ran 6 days a week (Monday to Saturday).

Another time I was up there southbound train had met with delay at Aviemore with brake issues on the stock. I had got off an 86 from the Midlands at Haymarket for the inbound train but landed up reaching Kirkcaldy where 47717 (ex push pull loco in early 90s parcels sector livery) rolled in over 90 mins late. This resulted in a post 4pm departure from Waverley of the return train and a spirited run north. I made the sleeper back to London which was 47785 to Edinburgh for an 87 south.

This was in fact the last regular Scotrail loco hauled service in the daytime prior to the Fife Circle 67/68 workings that lasted until last week but are now currently suspended. 1994 was the final year of workings the entire summer timetable. Since about 1991/92 winter timetable workings were scarce as the big fleet of early Mk2 vac braked stock in Scotland was generally stored over the winter then. In 1994 I think it was sent to MOD property at Carlisle and stored for a few years with it being cheaper to use Derby railtour stock in 1995 given the poor condition of much of the stored vehicles and reactivation costs for just 1 school holiday train.

Round about the end of August 1995 I think was the final booked 1030 ex Inverness 47781/760/747 all featured in the last full week. It was a Saturday and dozens of us showed up to say farewell to Highland Mainline daytime workings. This was only to find there was no loco on the set and the sleeper was running a few hours late from London. The first arrival after the northbound sleeper in the mid 90s was just after 1030 and booked a 158. With a delayed departure it was decided to form the service of that instead.

With no info on whether the set would be used on a later train and having got soaked by heavy rain in the campsite (due to leaks in the tent) we reluctantly boarded the 158 as our plan to get south was via a railtour from Edinburgh to Huddersfield for onward units home.

On arrival at Edinburgh we spoke to someone on the phone who had confirmed that the sleeper class 47 had left Inverness with the 1215 to Aberdeen on the Waterman set as we had apparently robbed the unit off that service. Whoops ! I don't know what time it was booked to return to Inverness from Aberdeen but guess mid to late afternoon. Had we stayed at Inverness we could have still got to Edinburgh in time via the 1455 KX hst which made the railtour by about 5-10 minutes.

So that's the end story for the daytime trains prior to the Fife sets.

 

[Cowley]

There was a service leaving Inverness at 1030 to Edinburgh arriving about 1410. It then returned at 1540 from Edinburgh to Inverness arriving about 1915. In the summer timetable 1995 it was mostly still booked a 158 unit but for several weeks during the summer holidays Waterman Railways hired a set of 6 musty smelling in refurbished mk2d/e carriages off Derby to BR Scotrail sector. A second RES 47 was stationed at Inverness which would swap over with the sleeper loco if required or sometimes on the long break at Edinburgh as per 1 day I recall when 47760 switched to 47747. The diagram ran 6 days a week (Monday to Saturday).

Another time I was up there southbound train had met with delay at Aviemore with brake issues on the stock. I had got off an 86 from the Midlands at Haymarket for the inbound train but landed up reaching Kirkcaldy where 47717 (ex push pull loco in early 90s parcels sector livery) rolled in over 90 mins late. This resulted in a post 4pm departure from Waverley of the return train and a spirited run north. I made the sleeper back to London which was 47785 to Edinburgh for an 87 south.

This was in fact the last regular Scotrail loco hauled service in the daytime prior to the Fife Circle 67/68 workings that lasted until last week but are now currently suspended. 1994 was the final year of workings the entire summer timetable. Since about 1991/92 winter timetable workings were scarce as the big fleet of early Mk2 vac braked stock in Scotland was generally stored over the winter then. In 1994 I think it was sent to MOD property at Carlisle and stored for a few years with it being cheaper to use Derby railtour stock in 1995 given the poor condition of much of the stored vehicles and reactivation costs for just 1 school holiday train.

Round about the end of August 1995 I think was the final booked 1030 ex Inverness 47781/760/747 all featured in the last full week. It was a Saturday and dozens of us showed up to say farewell to Highland Mainline daytime workings. This was only to find there was no loco on the set and the sleeper was running a few hours late from London. The first arrival after the northbound sleeper in the mid 90s was just after 1030 and booked a 158. With a delayed departure it was decided to form the service of that instead.

With no info on whether the set would be used on a later train and having got soaked by heavy rain in the campsite (due to leaks in the tent) we reluctantly boarded the 158 as our plan to get south was via a railtour from Edinburgh to Huddersfield for onward units home.

On arrival at Edinburgh we spoke to someone on the phone who had confirmed that the sleeper class 47 had left Inverness with the 1215 to Aberdeen on the Waterman set as we had apparently robbed the unit off that service. Whoops ! I don't know what time it was booked to return to Inverness from Aberdeen but guess mid to late afternoon. Had we stayed at Inverness we could have still got to Edinburgh in time via the 1455 KX hst which made the railtour by about 5-10 minutes.

So that's the end story for the daytime trains prior to the Fife sets.

Very interesting. Thanks for that @47827 and welcome to the forum too.