Locos that never hauled a passenger train

[LMS 4F]

A class 58 hauled a failed HST once.

I saw 58 009 coming into Leeds on a train from Brum some time in the late 1980s. It was a summer afternoon so heating not required. I was on a train going the other way.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I would expect all class 24s to have worked passenger trains too. Most if not all started at depots where they would have been used in passenger service.





Unfortunately there is no summary table like for the class 25s.

The first 20 of what became class 24 were on loan to the Southern specifically for passenger work because they had steam heat boilers. I think it was because S.R. coaching stock wasn't being converted to electric heating sufficiently quickly. They were on the S.E. Division, I think.

//

Pre electrification, Sulzer 2s were the mainstay of semi fasts Euston - Northampton - Birmingham, and the D1 -10 'Peaks' were used quite intensively on the W.C.M.L. when new. The Devons Road EE1s were also used on passenger work, mostly on Trings, but I saw a pair on a Euston - Northampton once.

 

[Trackman]

I saw 58 009 coming into Leeds on a train from Brum some time in the late 1980s. It was a summer afternoon so heating not required. I was on a train going the other way.

Just some more digging about, they were used on Brum-Nuneaton drags, but in their own right worked Brum-Cambridge services a few times.

 

[xotGD]

I should think that most of the 14, 15, 16 and many 17, together with some 20 probably never hauled a passenger train

I remember seeing a magazine article quite a few years ago that listed the last known passenger working of every class 20. There were no gaps, though for one loco there was a note "Only known passenger working".

 

[Mag_seven]

The freight 90s appeared on passenger work quite a lot before full sector dedication came in. There was also a Freightliner hire in Anglia to support the 86 fleet which 90050 worked on.

Yes I appreciate that I just wondered as it appeared to be the first withdrawn Class 90 that it might qualify. @Peter Mugridge has now confirmed otherwise anyway!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am not sure if the Class 16 fleet of 10 locomotives have been mentioned which after evaluation tests were all sent to the Stratford ( Eastern Region) shed. They suffered badly with inadequate ventilation and all the fleet were taken out of service after ten years and scrapped.

 

[anothertyke]

Classes 15 and 16 did do excursions from Liverpool St to the south coast, Brighton etc, via the East London Line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A question that I meant to raise some years ago. The MR 0-10-0 Lickey Banker, final running number 58100, obviously had a supplementary task of aiding but did it evet feature as a sole haulage traction on any passenger train?

 

[lyndhurst25]

The ten Class 97/7 battery electric locomotives? Although they would have all carried passengers in their previous lives as Class 501 EMU vehicles.

 

[Bevan Price]

Yes every single TOPS numbered 47 will have worked passenger trains at some point. Even the non boilered 47/3s were used on summer Saturday services. I had at least four or five of them on scheduled services just in 1988.

I was hauled by 509 Class 47s, including all the non-boilered locos - all on scheduled services. (I missed 3 early accident victims)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes I appreciate that I just wondered as it appeared to be the first withdrawn Class 90 that it might qualify. @Peter Mugridge has now confirmed otherwise anyway!

I've just checked back through my old combined volumes; I have it marked as haulage in the 2002 edition but not the 2001 edition - therefore it was some point between March 2002 and March 2003 when I had it. At the time it was running as 90 150, so I suspect it may have been on the Birmingham - Manchester run, I'm just having a quick look through my notes from that time to see if I can locate it... I'll edit this post if I find it...

Edited... found it... it was back as 90 050 ( despite what the 2003 combined volume says ) on 30th November 2002, when I had it from Ipswich to Liverpool Street, having earlier had 86 232 from Liverpool Street to Norwich and 90 045 from Norwich to Ipswich.

I can go further... the rake it was attached to was:

3334
3379
1219
5950
5964
5921
6822
6829
6828
9701

 

[D7666]

The freight 90s appeared on passenger work quite a lot before full sector dedication came in. There was also a Freightliner hire in Anglia to support the 86 fleet which 90050 worked on.

Indeed they did, summer 1990 when they were still churning out new 90s from Crewe Works it was already known the high-er numbers were going to be dedicated to freight but not yet, and almost as soon as these came out, they were 'fixed' almost immediately; Sunday afternoons from Crewe was a good time, you could get 2-3 brand new newbies within a couple of hours, as they tended to head towards Euston or Birmingham; I only missed 3 before they were removed from passenger; one of those I missed at that time was 90050 though.
_

I should think that most of the 14, 15, 16 and many 17, together with some 20 probably never hauled a passenger train

I would argue with 15s and 16s a larger proportion of the class worked passenger than did not.

15s did quite a lot in their time, especially in their early days; I'd guesstimate well over half of them did

16s - as posted already - claim to fame was the ER to SR via ELL excursions - there are something like 6 different D8400 recorded on them

17s - maybe not in the same proportion but many did - there were summer SO workings over the Waverley route that produced two pairs each weekend between Edinburgh and Carlisle in at least one timetable, and they had normal and boat train working to the different Ardrossan stations; then add all the miscellaneous stuff thy must have done; they were also used at Tebay for Shap banking only briefly - a few months only - but nonetheless they worked there are photos even of 17s banking 50s.
_

Yes every single TOPS numbered 47 will have worked passenger trains at some point. Even the non boilered 47/3s were used on summer Saturday services. I had at least four or five of them on scheduled services just in 1988.

I know of two bashers from the Southampton / Eastleigh area who started this game in steam days who both claim 510 D1500s but IIRC one missing loco is the same for both, but the other loco is different for each other. Both bashers are still around although neither to my knowledge have any web presence and won't see this to deny or confirm their 510.

 

[Bevan Price]

Indeed they did, summer 1990 when they were still churning out new 90s from Crewe Works it was already known the high-er numbers were going to be dedicated to freight but not yet, and almost as soon as these came out, they were 'fixed' almost immediately; Sunday afternoons from Crewe was a good time, you could get 2-3 brand new newbies within a couple of hours, as they tended to head towards Euston or Birmingham; I only missed 3 before they were removed from passenger; one of those I missed at that time was 90050 though.
_


I would argue with 15s and 16s a larger proportion of the class worked passenger than did not.

15s did quite a lot in their time, especially in their early days; I'd guesstimate well over half of them did

16s - as posted already - claim to fame was the ER to SR via ELL excursions - there are something like 6 different D8400 recorded on them

17s - maybe not in the same proportion but many did - there were summer SO workings over the Waverley route that produced two pairs each weekend between Edinburgh and Carlisle in at least one timetable, and they had normal and boat train working to the different Ardrossan stations; then add all the miscellaneous stuff thy must have done; they were also used at Tebay for Shap banking only briefly - a few months only - but nonetheless they worked there are photos even of 17s banking 50s.
_

In 1965, I saw a Class 17 arrive at Stirling with the Edinburgh portion of a Glasgow to Oban service (via the now closed route via Callander)

 

[Strathclyder]

Just to 100% confirm the above posts about 90050 being used on Anglia hire-ins, I found two images of it on Flickr (both copyright of Keith Partlow) at work on such trains with the '90050 Anglia' search term, one from November 2002 and the other from January 2003. Both taken at Ipswich.

90050 at Ipswich

Class 90 No.90050 on hire to Anglia Railways at Ipswich on 9th November 2002 on the 09:40 Norwich - Liverpool Street .New on 12th September 1990 after being built at Crewe Works and renumbered to 90150 from 23rd July 1991 until 7th August 2002 when it reverted back to 90050.Caught fire on 30th...

www.flickr.com

90050 at Ipswich

Class 90 No.90050 on hire to Anglia Railways at Ipswich on 11th January 2003 on the 09:00 Norwich - Liverpool Street.New on 12th September 1990 after being built at Crewe Works and renumbered to 90150 from 23rd July 1991 until 7th August 2002 when it reverted back to 90050.Caught fire on 30th...

www.flickr.com

In 1965, I saw a Class 17 arrive at Stirling with the Edinburgh portion of a Glasgow to Oban service (via the now closed route via Callander)

David Christie (also on Flickr) has two pics of Claytons (in fact, both are of Rolls-Royce powered D8586 dating from late August 1965) on passenger work in Scotland, both in/around the Stirling area.

B130 Clayton D8586 nr Dunblane Aug'65

The next dozen or so shots were taken in Scotland , during a weeks family holiday , staying at Bridge of Allan caravan site,right by the station. Alongside , ran the river and the railway , with its 1/100 bank . This Clayton was on an early morning service from Edinburgh to Callander and Oban...

www.flickr.com

Clayton Type 1 D8586 arr. Stirling 1965

I noticed quite a few of these Claytons around on passenger trains. D8586 (Haymarket) is arriving at Stirling Station due for Edinburgh -25/8/65.

www.flickr.com

 

[The exile]

Indeed they did, summer 1990 when they were still churning out new 90s from Crewe Works it was already known the high-er numbers were going to be dedicated to freight but not yet, and almost as soon as these came out, they were 'fixed' almost immediately; Sunday afternoons from Crewe was a good time, you could get 2-3 brand new newbies within a couple of hours, as they tended to head towards Euston or Birmingham; I only missed 3 before they were removed from passenger; one of those I missed at that time was 90050 though.
_


I would argue with 15s and 16s a larger proportion of the class worked passenger than did not.

15s did quite a lot in their time, especially in their early days; I'd guesstimate well over half of them did

16s - as posted already - claim to fame was the ER to SR via ELL excursions - there are something like 6 different D8400 recorded on them

17s - maybe not in the same proportion but many did - there were summer SO workings over the Waverley route that produced two pairs each weekend between Edinburgh and Carlisle in at least one timetable, and they had normal and boat train working to the different Ardrossan stations; then add all the miscellaneous stuff thy must have done; they were also used at Tebay for Shap banking only briefly - a few months only - but nonetheless they worked there are photos even of 17s banking 50s.
_


I know of two bashers from the Southampton / Eastleigh area who started this game in steam days who both claim 510 D1500s but IIRC one missing loco is the same for both, but the other loco is different for each other. Both bashers are still around although neither to my knowledge have any web presence and won't see this to deny or confirm their 510.

Guessing the one they both missed was 1734 or 1671.

 

[Peter0124]

On the inverse of that question, has a class 91 ever hauled a freight train? Running by themselves doesn't count.

 

[The exile]

On the inverse of that question, has a class 91 ever hauled a freight train? Running by themselves doesn't count.

Do you include NPCCS under freight?

 

[Cowley]

Obviously the brief said

Loco must have survived long enough to carry TOPS number - though use while still carrying the old number still counts.

, but even going back before that, of all the diesel classes from 15 (so main line locos with bogies) up to class 58. The only class that I can think of where there would probably be gaps would be the class 17s wouldn’t it?

 

[gg1]

A question that I meant to raise some years ago. The MR 0-10-0 Lickey Banker, final running number 58100, obviously had a supplementary task of aiding but did it evet feature as a sole haulage traction on any passenger train?

All photos I've seen show her lacking vacuum pipes which would preclude any passenger haulage.

 

[The exile]

Obviously the brief said , but even going back before that, of all the diesel classes from 15 (so main line locos with bogies) up to class 58. The only class that I can think of where there would probably be gaps would be the class 17s wouldn’t it?

56s and 58s of course never had diagrammed passenger work other than drags and many of their unplanned appearances would not be between two booked passenger stops - it’s possible that of the 185 possibles one slipped through the net. That said, there were enough cranks pulling strings in back offices….

 

[matchmaker]

Just to 100% confirm the above posts about 90050 being used on Anglia hire-ins, I found two images of it on Flickr (both copyright of Keith Partlow) at work on such trains with the '90050 Anglia' search term, one from November 2002 and the other from January 2003. Both taken at Ipswich.

90050 at Ipswich

Class 90 No.90050 on hire to Anglia Railways at Ipswich on 9th November 2002 on the 09:40 Norwich - Liverpool Street .New on 12th September 1990 after being built at Crewe Works and renumbered to 90150 from 23rd July 1991 until 7th August 2002 when it reverted back to 90050.Caught fire on 30th...

www.flickr.com

90050 at Ipswich

Class 90 No.90050 on hire to Anglia Railways at Ipswich on 11th January 2003 on the 09:00 Norwich - Liverpool Street.New on 12th September 1990 after being built at Crewe Works and renumbered to 90150 from 23rd July 1991 until 7th August 2002 when it reverted back to 90050.Caught fire on 30th...

www.flickr.com

David Christie (also on Flickr) has two pics of Claytons (in fact, both are of Rolls-Royce powered D8586 dating from late August 1965) on passenger work in Scotland, both in/around the Stirling area.

B130 Clayton D8586 nr Dunblane Aug'65

The next dozen or so shots were taken in Scotland , during a weeks family holiday , staying at Bridge of Allan caravan site,right by the station. Alongside , ran the river and the railway , with its 1/100 bank . This Clayton was on an early morning service from Edinburgh to Callander and Oban...

www.flickr.com

Clayton Type 1 D8586 arr. Stirling 1965

I noticed quite a few of these Claytons around on passenger trains. D8586 (Haymarket) is arriving at Stirling Station due for Edinburgh -25/8/65.

www.flickr.com

Here's a list of Clayton passenger workings in Scotland

Leightonlists

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As a slight variation on the question, has the Class 950 ever been called into action to rescue a failed Sprinter? Obviously won't have carried passengers itself, so unless it did a "thunderbird" job nobody will have it red-penned.

 

[Trackman]

As a slight variation on the question, has the Class 950 ever been called into action to rescue a failed Sprinter? Obviously won't have carried passengers itself, so unless it did a "thunderbird" job nobody will have it red-penned.

I dont know, but very much doubt it, unless the situation was life-threatening and then worry about the paperwork later.

 

[xotGD]

On the inverse of that question, has a class 91 ever hauled a freight train? Running by themselves doesn't count.

The 1A40 Newcastle to King's Cross vans was 91 hauled on at least one occasion.

 

[Bevan Price]

56s and 58s of course never had diagrammed passenger work other than drags and many of their unplanned appearances would not be between two booked passenger stops - it’s possible that of the 185 possibles one slipped through the net. That said, there were enough cranks pulling strings in back offices….

Some "fixes" on normal passenger services did occur. At least one Class 56 worked a Preston - Manchester portion,

Whilst in 1992, this somehow found itself as the only loco available to work the Manchester - Southport loco hauled service:

 

[D7666]

56s and 58s of course never had diagrammed passenger work other

Of course that is not true, for 56s at least.

There were 2 or more occasions when a 56 was diagrammed for the Sundays Brighton Exeter (or was it Bristol; wherever it went anyway) to Portsmouth when it went that way in whatever timetable it was; IIRC it never actually happened but someone might have some gen on that; at least once was a 73 vice 56 - I and several others were there for it, the train had no allox but the 56 was in place for it so we went. Before someone piles in and says it was diagrammed a 73, yes it was, normally, but certain permutations of Sundays engineering works was altered, and a 56 diagrammed.
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Did all 6 of the class 370 APT power cars 49001-49006 work actual revenue passenger trains ?

There is an argument there (don't start !!!) an APT-E power car is a cabless BoBo locomotive .................. anyway for this thread they were TOPS classified traction units and possibly one or more did not work a passenger train.
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But we are drifting into units anyway :

As a slight variation on the question, has the Class 950 ever been called into action to rescue a failed Sprinter? Obviously won't have carried passengers itself, so unless it did a "thunderbird" job nobody will have it red-penned.

Varying further, if we are going into units and departmental units, SR de-icing units have occasionally been attached to passenger trains.

I had two of the three original BOMO de-icers (001-003) in this way - the 22:12 Bomo Basingstoke stopper was a 4car and could get one attached to position it.

The only reason I had them was fell into them as did that train allowing me a late move - I could do that train from Bomo to Pokesdown (mileage move!) and then get my last bus home from there - but more to the point it was the odd ball 93 (slow) booked a solo 4Rep for balancing reasons - so the moves were 4Rep+2Ice.

For the record, since someone will ask,

Saturday 17/12/77 3009 + 002 Bournemouth to 93] 2212 Bournemouth Basingstoke
Saturday 01/01/78 3003 + 001 Bournemouth to Pokesdown [93] 2212 Bournemouth Basingstoke
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Did E2001 ever work a REVENUE passenger train ? It did press / media / staff specials but I don't recall ever reading or seeing reference to it on a public passenger train.

E2001 is a grey area w.r.t. this thread - allegedly class 80 I always challenge it was anything of the sort - but anyway as some will no doubt count it as class 80, it is possibly the only valid candidate for electric locos (except 92s) variation on the thread - since DMU then EMU have crept in then EL can do as well as the OP DL.

 

[E27007]

I was hauled by 509 Class 47s, including all the non-boilered locos - all on scheduled services. (I missed 3 early accident victims)

I know of one other basher who cleared 509 of the class 47, it took 20 years, the locos he missed were the accident write-offs.
What was the number of your last loco to clear the class?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Renumbering is an interesting watershed. For example there are no known passenger workings for 31011 after it was renumbered, its last known passenger working is as 5511.

It counts

Beacuse

1) Loco must have survived long enough to carry TOPS number - though use while still carrying the old number still counts.

Can't see how all the Hymeks wouldn't have been on passenger turns.

Doesn't meet the criterion of having acquired a TOPS number. Ditto for E2001, and classes 15, 16 and 17

Not BR era, but I don't think Class 70 ever did anything else than freight

The shape of the cab precludes a class 70 coupling to anything with a gangway, hence the need for a non-gangwayed barrier vehicle at the recent SVR Gala

Unless you mean this class 70...............

 

[The exile]

Of course that is not true, for 56s at least.

There were 2 or more occasions when a 56 was diagrammed for the Sundays Brighton Exeter (or was it Bristol; wherever it went anyway) to Portsmouth when it went that way in whatever timetable it was; IIRC it never actually happened but someone might have some gen on that; at least once was a 73 vice 56 - I and several others were there for it, the train had no allox but the 56 was in place for it so we went. Before someone piles in and says it was diagrammed a 73, yes it was, normally, but certain permutations of Sundays engineering works was altered, and a 56 diagrammed

E2001 is a grey area w.r.t. this thread - allegedly class 80

The example of the Brighton - wherever falls into a similar category as the Cannock / Nuneaton drags - diagrammed for a freight loco (possibly a specific class) when the diversions were on, but not a “regular diagram”. However, we’re getting into the area of splitting hairs…

As for E2001, definitely not a grey area as a) electric and b) -whether or not it was allocated Class 80, it never carried a TOPS number itself (otherwise the class number debate would never have arisen).

 

[Merle Haggard]

Some "fixes" on normal passenger services did occur. At least one Class 56 worked a Preston - Manchester portion,

Whilst in 1992, this somehow found itself as the only loco available to work the Manchester - Southport loco hauled service:

Trainload Freight had a 'Special Price' for the hire of class 60s. Use of Class 60s by other sectors only allowed on the 'to clear the line' clause of the use of other sectors' locos rules so the price had to be paid.