London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015

[grid56126]

Journeycheck has limitations in as much as you have to be a bit clued up as a user to understand how to find a train running through your station. If you want to see what is affecting trains at East Croydon and are an irregular traveller how will you know from a quick scan of journeycheck what problms are coming your way. Saying that a train from Littlehampton to Victoria is late or short formed is little help unless you expand the train and given there could be large numbers of trains in that list it becomes a pain scrolling through them all, and that's if you know what you are looking for and even know how to expand the info.

Of course the same goes with Twitter quoting individual trains, what is the point of saying a Littlehampton to Victoria is cancelled to infrequent travellers joining at Hove or Hassocks?

I think Down peak workings are much more important to be mentioned though and with as much notice as possible to allow commuters to make alternative plans. I will always go out of my way to make sure this is done despite some policies existing that oppose this stance.

However what is the alternative? NRES are still unable to show formations despite being assured they were working on it, nothing is happening. Franchise obligations are starting to include this provision now, so with Journeycheck and LDB being the only two viable options (apart from free text web updates) it looks like Journeycheck will be staying.

I have no idea when Journeycheck will go live on the Southern part of the GTR website but I do know it is being "developed".....

 

[Frontera2]

Journeycheck has limitations in as much as you have to be a bit clued up as a user to understand how to find a train running through your station. If you want to see what is affecting trains at East Croydon and are an irregular traveller how will you know from a quick scan of journeycheck what problms are coming your way. Saying that a train from Littlehampton to Victoria is late or short formed is little help unless you expand the train and given there could be large numbers of trains in that list it becomes a pain scrolling through them all, and that's if you know what you are looking for and even know how to expand the info.

Of course the same goes with Twitter quoting individual trains, what is the point of saying a Littlehampton to Victoria is cancelled to infrequent travellers joining at Hove or Hassocks?

I think Down peak workings are much more important to be mentioned though and with as much notice as possible to allow commuters to make alternative plans. I will always go out of my way to make sure this is done despite some policies existing that oppose this stance.

However what is the alternative? NRES are still unable to show formations despite being assured they were working on it, nothing is happening. Franchise obligations are starting to include this provision now, so with Journeycheck and LDB being the only two viable options (apart from free text web updates) it looks like Journeycheck will be staying.

I have no idea when Journeycheck will go live on the Southern part of the GTR website but I do know it is being "developed".....

Let's be clear.. Journeycheck * doesn't * show formations in their purest forms. What it shows is any published variation to the norm. Therefore unless your train is altered, you won't be able to tell from JC whether it's a 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 car etc.

What I believe NRE are looking at is a feed from Genius and other systems that will show the actual formation of ALL trains, which would be a hell of a lot more useful.

So if you ignore formations and catering ( for those operators where it's relevant ) exactly what train centric info does JC provide that isn't already readily available from other sources? Also, London Overground have recently ditched it, East Midlands don't use it and I'm sure at some point in future others will follow.

Take innovations like OpenTrainTimes for example.. You seriously believe that a developer couldn't, if they had a cash injection, develop something a hell of a lot better and cheaper than what's available today?

 

[ScotGG]

What work was carried out over the weekend?

Today so far has been one to forget for Southeastern. There was a signal problem in the London Bridge area apparently, plus one at Greenwich (related?) and then a failed train near Dartford plus another at Peckham Rye.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Journeycheck has limitations in as much as you have to be a bit clued up as a user to understand how to find a train running through your station. If you want to see what is affecting trains at East Croydon and are an irregular traveller how will you know from a quick scan of journeycheck what problms are coming your way. Saying that a train from Littlehampton to Victoria is late or short formed is little help unless you expand the train and given there could be large numbers of trains in that list it becomes a pain scrolling through them all, and that's if you know what you are looking for and even know how to expand the info.

Of course the same goes with Twitter quoting individual trains, what is the point of saying a Littlehampton to Victoria is cancelled to infrequent travellers joining at Hove or Hassocks?

I think Down peak workings are much more important to be mentioned though and with as much notice as possible to allow commuters to make alternative plans. I will always go out of my way to make sure this is done despite some policies existing that oppose this stance.

However what is the alternative? NRES are still unable to show formations despite being assured they were working on it, nothing is happening. Franchise obligations are starting to include this provision now, so with Journeycheck and LDB being the only two viable options (apart from free text web updates) it looks like Journeycheck will be staying.

I have no idea when Journeycheck will go live on the Southern part of the GTR website but I do know it is being "developed".....

You make a couple of mentions in your post to infrequent travellers. The reality of course is that infrequent travellers are in the minority particularly on Southern. I have said before that potentially Southern needs more than one twitter feed, one say @southernhelp to answer queries about train times, lost coats, bags, etc and the other say @southerndelays to tweet information about delays, cancellations, short formations etc.

Potentially they could have one feed per line @southernoxted, @southernBML etc but in reality there are probably accounts out their that already tweet line specific info. So if Southern tweeted it they could rely on the existing volunteer accounts to retweet it.

It is a ridiculous situation where you have volunteers tweeting information about Southerns trains that is issued quicker, better and more accurately than their official feed can do, and whilst doing so the volunteers can answer questions as well!

Southerns solution is to give a website link for passengers to check their own trains on, but that is just not as handy as you have to enter your start point, your destination etc, instead of just scrolling through info already on your timeline.

On the same subject I am signed up to the National Rail alerts, which are also useless as I want alerts for travel from London Bridge to Uckfield. I get warnings of disruption most days and usually due to a problem on the Thameslink Line or the BML none of which are affecting the Uckfield Line, but of course might as they all go through East Croydon.

All regular passengers want is an easy system which enables them to see what is happening with their trains and potentially the network. So whilst @southernmalachi's tweets might fill my timeline, by flicking through them I can gauge how widespread issues are and therefore whether to stick with Southern or divert to Tunbridge Wells if ticket acceptance is in place.

 

[Bald Rick]

What work was carried out over the weekend?

Today so far has been one to forget for Southeastern. There was a signal problem in the London Bridge area apparently, plus one at Greenwich (related?) and then a failed train near Dartford plus another at Peckham Rye.

Final prep for Christmas, nothing major.

It was only one 'signal failure', actually a failed insulated rail joint in a plain line section, part of the old signalling, nothing to do with the work. Incidentally this type of failure can't happen when re signalling is done at London Bridge, as there are no insulated rail joints in plain line.

Train failure no1 was a brake fault (the train failed across the junctions near Dartford, blocking almost everything). The second failure was a fault with the the traction equipment in the train.

 

[southern442]

What BML disruption was there today? An array of delays and a few cancellations for the millionth weekday in a row.

 

[Bald Rick]

What BML disruption was there today? An array of delays and a few cancellations for the millionth weekday in a row.

A brief track circuit failure at London Bridge caused a handful of delays, a rail fault and subsequent speed restriction at the bottom end of the BML caused some more, a couple of minor train faults, all fairly run of the mill. But the majority of the issues were down to lack of available crew, more than 10% of today's PPM has been lost just down to cancellations caused by this alone.

 

[neilm]

Let's be clear.. Journeycheck * doesn't * show formations in their purest forms. What it shows is any published variation to the norm. Therefore unless your train is altered, you won't be able to tell from JC whether it's a 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 car etc.

What I believe NRE are looking at is a feed from Genius and other systems that will show the actual formation of ALL trains, which would be a hell of a lot more useful.

So if you ignore formations and catering ( for those operators where it's relevant ) exactly what train centric info does JC provide that isn't already readily available from other sources? Also, London Overground have recently ditched it, East Midlands don't use it and I'm sure at some point in future others will follow.

Take innovations like OpenTrainTimes for example.. You seriously believe that a developer couldn't, if they had a cash injection, develop something a hell of a lot better and cheaper than what's available today?

I think you are missing the point though, as a regular commuter. Journey check is STILL better than southern pump out at the moment as others have mentioned, unofficial sources as better than southern is at the moment.

You talk about short formations, we can only dream about finding out about them at the moment....

 

[ScotGG]

A brief track circuit failure at London Bridge caused a handful of delays, a rail fault and subsequent speed restriction at the bottom end of the BML caused some more, a couple of minor train faults, all fairly run of the mill. But the majority of the issues were down to lack of available crew, more than 10% of today's PPM has been lost just down to cancellations caused by this alone.

Thanks. Much appreciate the info and updates on LB works. For some reason SE went a bit wrong bang on 5pm. All fine all day then some trains left 5-10 down. SE don't know why on twitter. Now a fair few are around 10 mins late. No biggie but just shows how one or two trains not moving for 5 mins has repercussions for hours after.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks. Much appreciate the info and updates on LB works. For some reason SE went a bit wrong bang on 5pm. All fine all day then some trains left 5-10 down. SE don't know why on twitter. Now a fair few are around 10 mins late. No biggie but just shows how one or two trains not moving for 5 mins has repercussions for hours after.

A train left Cannon St 7 late due to radio issues. To be fair, it would have been exactly the same result has it happened before the rebuilding.

 

[carriageline]

Final prep for Christmas, nothing major.

It was only one 'signal failure', actually a failed insulated rail joint in a plain line section, part of the old signalling, nothing to do with the work. Incidentally this type of failure can't happen when re signalling is done at London Bridge, as there are no insulated rail joints in plain line.

Train failure no1 was a brake fault (the train failed across the junctions near Dartford, blocking almost everything). The second failure was a fault with the the traction equipment in the train.

Out of curiosity mate, what will they be using instead of insulated joints? (Unless I'm being stupid!)

 

[Bald Rick]

Out of curiosity mate, what will they be using instead of insulated joints? (Unless I'm being stupid!)

Jointless track circuits. Already in use throughout the Low Level to New X Gate. As a result no IBJ failures in plain track for over a year

IBJs still required through S&C though.

 

[Bishopstone]

You talk about short formations, we can only dream about finding out about them at the moment....

I pop Southern a tweet re. my regular evening train, and they normally respond within ten minutes. But yes, there should be a less labour intensive way of establishing this information.

 

[Hophead]

I pop Southern a tweet re. my regular evening train, and they normally respond within ten minutes. But yes, there should be a less labour intensive way of establishing this information.

But imagine if all of their passengers were to do the same.....

 

[infobleep]

Let's be clear.. Journeycheck * doesn't * show formations in their purest forms. What it shows is any published variation to the norm. Therefore unless your train is altered, you won't be able to tell from JC whether it's a 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 car etc.

What I believe NRE are looking at is a feed from Genius and other systems that will show the actual formation of ALL trains, which would be a hell of a lot more useful.

So if you ignore formations and catering ( for those operators where it's relevant ) exactly what train centric info does JC provide that isn't already readily available from other sources? Also, London Overground have recently ditched it, East Midlands don't use it and I'm sure at some point in future others will follow.

Take innovations like OpenTrainTimes for example.. You seriously believe that a developer couldn't, if they had a cash injection, develop something a hell of a lot better and cheaper than what's available today?

I'm sure they could but the TOCs would have to be willing or forced to give the info away for free and keep updating it, even though they are not longer providing the info themselves.

 

[carriageline]

Jointless track circuits. Already in use throughout the Low Level to New X Gate. As a result no IBJ failures in plain track for over a year



IBJs still required through S&C though.

Thank you sir. Will have a read up!

 

[Bishopstone]

Well I think all that can be said about tonight is that irregular rail travellers, heading for airports and family Christmases, will have concluded that the franchise and infrastructure are exceedingly badly managed.

 

[FOH]

The poor lady doing the announcements has been apologising non-stop all week.

 

[southern442]

The poor lady doing the announcements has been apologising non-stop all week.

The disruption has been non-stop since that bloody jinxed timetable came into operation!

 

[sarahj]

I was back today after a week off, and all I can say here is 'interesting'. Seems something went wrong with a signalling cable around Littlehampton and until the fault was found nothing could run between Angmering/Arundel/Barnham. and then just as that was almost getting back to a kind of normal, the signals at the Heath went pop. My train from Ore arrived into Victoria 16 mins late, which meant I missed my pass on a Gatex to Gatwick, (18.15) which I then work to Brighton. It left without me and punters would only know about it after Gatwick. Meanwhile I went to find a train to get to Haywards Heath to work a later train. Found a train to Littlehampton and it even had a driver, but no guard. I offered to work it to Haywards Heath, which after some too-ing and flowing, they asked me to take it first to East Croydon and then all the way to littlehampton. You knew it was going to be one of those trips when our first signal stop was before Battersea Park. No idea what happened to my 21.06 HHE to Ebn and later Ebn to Btn. As i worked these trains and later got back to Brighton, there was a strange feeling in the air. Hard to put into words. Not looking forward to tomorrow night where i work a 20.38 from Btn to Vic and then supposed to get an empties back to Lovers Walk. I'm sensing a long taxi ride in my future, or a very late hometime!!!

 

[Sunset route]

Not looking forward to tomorrow night where i work a 20.38 from Btn to Vic and then supposed to get an empties back to Lovers Walk. I'm sensing a long taxi ride in my future, or a very late hometime!!!

5A33 practically one of my last GTR Southern trains for the night apart from one ECS to Three Bridges and the last two West Croydon terminators, although Lorol are playing trains for a bit longer lol

 

[Deepgreen]

Another day of significant infrastructure failure yesterday (Littlehampton and Haywards Heath) - the railway seems to be disintegrating ever more rapidly! I noticed the cranes gathering in the Purley aggregates yard head-shunt this morning - what prospect of an engineering over-run here, or knock-on track failures after completion, I wonder?

My train this morning, the 0831 from Redhill to Victoria (2C19), was held for several minutes just south of Selhurst on the up fast, in parallel with an East Grinstead to Victoria working (2L09) on the up slow, while the signaller waited for a Victoria to Brighton pass on the down fast then set the road for the East Grinstead to cross to the fast ahead of us. We were running later than the other train, and could have simply proceeded through Selhurst while the down fast train cleared the crossover, then the up EG train could have crossed over to the fast and followed us, but, no, that would have been too logical! There was no other down fast train for several minutes afterwards so nothing else would have been delayed by this move. Actual sequence checked on RTT, by the way.

 

[hwl]

The bridge deck replacement to the south of Purley is probably riskier than the points replacement to the north...
and throw in power supply work

 

[James Wake]

I was back today after a week off, and all I can say here is 'interesting'. Seems something went wrong with a signalling cable around Littlehampton and until the fault was found nothing could run between Angmering/Arundel/Barnham. and then just as that was almost getting back to a kind of normal, the signals at the Heath went pop. My train from Ore arrived into Victoria 16 mins late, which meant I missed my pass on a Gatex to Gatwick, (18.15) which I then work to Brighton. It left without me and punters would only know about it after Gatwick. Meanwhile I went to find a train to get to Haywards Heath to work a later train. Found a train to Littlehampton and it even had a driver, but no guard. I offered to work it to Haywards Heath, which after some too-ing and flowing, they asked me to take it first to East Croydon and then all the way to littlehampton. You knew it was going to be one of those trips when our first signal stop was before Battersea Park. No idea what happened to my 21.06 HHE to Ebn and later Ebn to Btn. As i worked these trains and later got back to Brighton, there was a strange feeling in the air. Hard to put into words. Not looking forward to tomorrow night where i work a 20.38 from Btn to Vic and then supposed to get an empties back to Lovers Walk. I'm sensing a long taxi ride in my future, or a very late hometime!!!

The 2106 left HHE 6 mins late according to RTT. If you mean the 2204 from EBN, it was 10 mins late leaving, so they both weren't cancelled. At least some crew like Sarah are prepared to help when there is disruption by doing a completely different diagram.

 

[tsr]

There's now a completely terrible service on the whole BML this morning, and possibly for the rest of the day, but GTR/Network Rail are not to blame as unfortunately someone would appear to have been struck by a train. At the moment, from what I gather, it's not 100% clear if they were already deceased and on the track. The investigation has been ongoing for a couple of hours and the Slows are closed at East Croydon as a result, with the traction current off as well.

 

[James Wake]

There's now a completely terrible service on the whole BML this morning, and possibly for the rest of the day, but GTR/Network Rail are not to blame as unfortunately someone would appear to have been struck by a train. At the moment, from what I gather, it's not 100% clear if they were already deceased and on the track. The investigation has been ongoing for a couple of hours and the Slows are closed at East Croydon as a result, with the traction current off as well.

My train this morning (1C05) was on time from Three Bridges all the way to Clapham Junction, passed ECR at 0800. Not looking forward to the journey home now, but I'll get home somehow, even if it means resorting to the buses.

 

[tsr]

My train this morning (1C05) was on time from Three Bridges all the way to Clapham Junction, passed ECR at 0800. Not looking forward to the journey home now, but I'll get home somehow, even if it means resorting to the buses.

I believe the person was found on the track at around 0900. Slow lines are still closed...

 

[Chrisgr31]

Yet another day when there is disruption when I am not travelling!

Although I do find Southerns inability to notify passengers of disruption, and to have a plan that recovers the service after disruption I have to say that in the last couple of months I have only been late by more than half an hour once, have not been affected by cancellations due to staff shortage.

The train is admittedly regularly 5 minutes late in to London Bridge, and is usually 10 or 15 minunites late in to Crowborough in the evenings, but so used to that its a bonus when its on time.

So I can't really complain!

Sympathy and thoughts to all those involved in todays incident.

 

[Deepgreen]

The bridge deck replacement to the south of Purley is probably riskier than the points replacement to the north...
and throw in power supply work

A good point - I have noticed the preparation work taking place at the bridge but hadn't realised it was a replacement job - is this across all lines? I wonder why the bridge works have not been mentioned in the information feed from Southern about the BML closure - it is major enough to warrant inclusion, surely?

 

[tsr]

All lines at East Croydon are now open for Christmas Eve afternoon service recovery. Actually, service recovery does seem to be going OK at the moment, though I don't like to tempt fate (apologies if I do...!).

A good point - I have noticed the preparation work taking place at the bridge but hadn't realised it was a replacement job - is this across all lines? I wonder why the bridge works have not been mentioned in the information feed from Southern about the BML closure - it is major enough to warrant inclusion, surely?

I'm pretty sure the bridge works are mentioned on the publicity posters. What hasn't been mentioned is the apparent major track renewal work in the Merstham area. I'll need to look that up myself, as I'm unsure what's going on with that.