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London Buses Discussion

Titfield

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I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that there was a statutory requirement as part of TfL being permitted to be its own traffic commissioner. It therefore has to publish the same information as other traffic commissioners around the country.
If I have got this wrong then I apologise.

And it’s not linked to the current consultation tool, TfL moved to a new consultation website few months ago, and the consultation link takes you to the old disused one which TfL website is no longer being updated. Pretending to consult by linking an obsolete website which doesn’t show anything for it in its index, is hardly informing any consultees. You can’t email it unless you can guarantee that you are using a current valid and active email address for every statutory consultee, so no emails to an individual who might no longer be at an organisation.

I have a gut feeling that it has to be done this way as it was specified to be done this way in the Greater London Authority Act 1999. To change it, it may mean the Act being amended and given the cost and effort involved it has been decided it is easier to continue as specified.

I have a nagging thought at the back of my mind is that if the word publish is used then it has to be done this way. May be wrong.
 
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R

RailUK Forums

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The latest tender results for London from today:

LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes with the operators listed below:

RouteCurrent OperatorNew Operator
PVR
Vehicles
70London UnitedLondon United
19​
Existing electric single deck
135Docklands BusesTower Transit
15​
Existing hybrid double deck
217Sullivan BusesSullivan Buses
11​
Existing diesel double deck
617Sullivan BusesSullivan Buses
2​
Existing diesel double deck
629Sullivan BusesSullivan Buses
1​
Existing diesel double deck
678Stagecoach East LondonTower Transit
4​
Existing hybrid double deck
733n/aTower Transit
15​
Existing hybrid double deck

The hybrid and diesel vehicles detailed above will meet Euro VI emissions standards. Route 733 is a temporary service operating during the planned 17 week closure of the Bank Branch of the Northern Line.


The above contracts will commence on the following dates:

15th January 2022: Route 733.
2nd April 2022: Routes 617, 629 & 678.
21st May 2022: Route 135.
4th June 2022: Route 217.
25th June 2022: Route 70.

Source: http://www.lots.org.uk/
 
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Anthony ross

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I'm glad to see Sullivan buses retain their work and it's nice to see Tower Transit gain some more work.
 
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dan5324

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TfL website bus changes page includes some changes to stopping patterns at Victoria on 16th August and big changes at Aldwych from 21st August (when a one way section becomes 2way)




From memory temporary changes have been at Victoria ever since they started enlarging the District line station with extra connections to Victoria line, I forget when it started, but feels like decade ago



This is part of the Westminster Council public realm works which just seem to reduce road space for buses, so they get even slower


No to mention the bus stands and bus lane short cut lost at Marble Arch thanks to the awful Marble Arch mound.
 

Mikey C

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No to mention the bus stands and bus lane short cut lost at Marble Arch thanks to the awful Marble Arch mound.
I hadn't realised that the mound was built over that bus cut though. Is that a permanent change?
 

busesrusuk

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If you are referring to Tyburn Way, I see no evdence of its closure.

John
Tyburn Way is/was currently closed to traffic as its used as a bit of a builders yard at present whilst they finish off creating the monster. It is due to reopen soon (if not already) but was still closed earlier this week. I understand it is due to reopen shortly. Everything has to do the full circle around Marble Arch giving opportunities to get some decent pics of stuff that usually goes through Tyburn Way (if you get lucky with the traffic that is). There is a temporary bus stand for the 30 at the western end of Marble Arch which actually creates a bit of a bottleneck for stuff heading towards Lancaster Gate.
 

Snow1964

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TfL have issued a bus route tendering update

Tendering Programme Update
5th August 2021

Routes 36/N36, 41/N41, 99, 118, 121, 138, 141, 153, 161, 169, 172, 181, 225, 233, 247, 258, 269, 284, 287, 299, 329, 343/N343, 401, 422, 423, B14, B16, H22, H28, H37/NH37, H98, W4 and W6 have had two-year extensions agreed under the terms of the Quality Incentive Contracts, therefore they will no longer form part of the 2022/2023 programme.

In addition, routes 142 and 642 in Tranche 821 will now be retendered as a single contract.

Proposed new routes 439 and S2 have been moved from Tranche 779 in the 2021/2022 programme to new Tranche 819A in the 2022/2023 programme
The new routes are in the Sutton area, and are related to massive expansion of Royal Marsden Hospital. Tranche 819 already had Sutton area routes. Possibly will be changes to PVRs or routings with these at same time


Here is the link to the 2022-23 Tender programme (as issued, before the updates)

 

londonbridge

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This seems to be the most appropriate place I can find to post this query…..I use the “London Live Bus Countdown” app and have found I can no longer access information for the bus stop “Park Lane/Fairfield Halls” (towards Selhurst, South Croydon or Waddon). By which I mean it just sits there trying to load the times, if I click on the timetable option for any of the three routes (154, 403, 75). I get a resource not found error message. I have it listed under favourites, if I switch to nearest it does not appear in the list of stops, when I’m literally standing right by the stop outside the halls…..does anyone know why this stop and its associated information seems to have been removed from the database?
 

Snow1964

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This seems to be the most appropriate place I can find to post this query…..I use the “London Live Bus Countdown” app and have found I can no longer access information for the bus stop “Park Lane/Fairfield Halls” (towards Selhurst, South Croydon or Waddon). By which I mean it just sits there trying to load the times, if I click on the timetable option for any of the three routes (154, 403, 75). I get a resource not found error message. I have it listed under favourites, if I switch to nearest it does not appear in the list of stops, when I’m literally standing right by the stop outside the halls…..does anyone know why this stop and its associated information seems to have been removed from the database?

There have been few instances of this over time, it normally happens when there are long term roadworks, or stops are relocated due to road schemes. However there can be timing mismatch. From memory the database is revised and changes go live on Thursday nights.

Clearly if a notified road scheme changes dates, or there is human error in doing the updates then a stop will stay wrong until someone corrects it. I am not aware of a simple quick way of notifying these errors.
 

londonbridge

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Thanks, that’s interesting. I’m not sure how long it’s been like this. I could email TFL I guess
 

chopperman21

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Tower Transit and Go-Ahead London are not the only company to receive new Optare Metrodecker's, Centaur Travel based in Crayford have taken delivery of one in blue for the University of Greenwich shuttle service - pic. A second should follow soon.
 

duncanp

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I see that TfL are continuing with their ill advised policy of gradually reducing bus services along the Western half of Oxford Street.


Changes to routes 113 and 159 - 28 August 2021

Routes Affected: 113 and 159

Route 113 will run between Edgware Bus Station and Marble Arch only, with a revised timetable. Route 113 will be rerouted from Orchard Street at Selfridges along Oxford Street to start and finish at Marble Arch. The section of route between Selfridges and Oxford Circus will be covered by routes 7, 94, 98, 139 and 390. At Marble Arch route 113 will set down passengers at bus stop P on Oxford Street and will pick up passengers from bus stop L on Oxford Street close to the entrance to Marble Arch Station.

Route 159 will run between Streatham Station and Oxford Circus only, with a revised timetable during both the day and night. The section of route between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus will be covered by routes 7, 94, 98, 139 and 390 during the day and routes 94, 139, 390, N7, N98, N113, N137 and N207 at night. At Oxford Circus buses will set down passengers at bus stop RC on Regent Street outside the Ted Baker store and will pick up passengers from bus stop RG on Regent Street outside Natwest.

Presumably this will continue until there are only a few routes left, at which point they can justify diverting them away from Oxford Street and pedestrianising it.

This will make shopping on that part of Oxford Street more difficult for anyone who has mobility issues, who appreciate the fact that a bus or taxi can set them down or pick them up right outside their chosen shop.

Which is why I used to shop at Westfield Stratford City until I moved out of London.
 

MotCO

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Tower Transit and Go-Ahead London are not the only company to receive new Optare Metrodecker's, Centaur Travel based in Crayford have taken delivery of one in blue for the University of Greenwich shuttle service - pic. A second should follow soon.

I wondered whether these were from the cancelled Reading order (two of the five of which have already been sold to Johnsons). However, the bus has 'zero emissions' on its side, so I assume that it is a battery EV version. Given that GoAhead are still waiting for their order to be completed, when did Centaur order these?

The style of these is similar to the Tower Transit and Metroline ones, i.e. without the revised front incorporating camera mirrors.

The 'CN' registration is unusual - where is the CN licencing office?
 
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Snow1964

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I wondered whether these were from the cancelled Reading order (two of the five of which have already been sold to Johnsons). However, the bus has 'zero emissions' on its side, so I assume that it is a battery EV version. Given that GoAhead are still waiting for their order to be completed, when did Centaur order these?

The style of these is similar to the Tower Transit and Metroline ones, i.e. without the revised front incorporating camera mirrors.

The 'CN' registration is unusual - where is the CN licencing office?

C is Wales (in Welsh), CN is Cardiff office
 

Mikey C

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I see that TfL are continuing with their ill advised policy of gradually reducing bus services along the Western half of Oxford Street.




Presumably this will continue until there are only a few routes left, at which point they can justify diverting them away from Oxford Street and pedestrianising it.

This will make shopping on that part of Oxford Street more difficult for anyone who has mobility issues, who appreciate the fact that a bus or taxi can set them down or pick them up right outside their chosen shop.

Which is why I used to shop at Westfield Stratford City until I moved out of London.
Especially as the retail sector is on the decline anyway, reducing the number of shoppers walking along Oxford Street.
 
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Snow1964

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RATP have put some of their spare LT new routemasters on route 111 (Kingston- Heathrow) today, it is part of a phased conversion of the route over next 3 weeks
 
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Mikey C

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Tower Transit and Go-Ahead London are not the only company to receive new Optare Metrodecker's, Centaur Travel based in Crayford have taken delivery of one in blue for the University of Greenwich shuttle service - pic. A second should follow soon.
It's quite a big commitment to order an electric vehicle, especially in a "non London" spec, so it's not as if it can be used on TfL routes if they dispose of it. I assume their depot has had to be upgraded.
 
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londonteacher

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There are 5 routes still running during the day which people could change to if they require or wish.

I don't agree with pedestrianising Oxford Street completely but are there plenty of buses to change on to? TFL have to make cuts and this seems sensible as they are removing duplication.
I see that TfL are continuing with their ill advised policy of gradually reducing bus services along the Western half of Oxford Street.




Presumably this will continue until there are only a few routes left, at which point they can justify diverting them away from Oxford Street and pedestrianising it.

This will make shopping on that part of Oxford Street more difficult for anyone who has mobility issues, who appreciate the fact that a bus or taxi can set them down or pick them up right outside their chosenThiThis

Which is why I used to shop at Westfield Stratford City until I moved out of London.
 
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Busaholic

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I see that TfL are continuing with their ill advised policy of gradually reducing bus services along the Western half of Oxford Street.




Presumably this will continue until there are only a few routes left, at which point they can justify diverting them away from Oxford Street and pedestrianising it.

This will make shopping on that part of Oxford Street more difficult for anyone who has mobility issues, who appreciate the fact that a bus or taxi can set them down or pick them up right outside their chosen shop.

Which is why I used to shop at Westfield Stratford City until I moved out of London.
Got to make sure there are some customers for Crossrail if, or when, it ever opens. Wonder how much walking you'd be spared if you Crossrailed from Tottenham Court Road to Bond Street rather than sashaying along Oxford Street. Little, if any, I'd suggest once you'd negotiated your way to and from the platforms.
 

londonteacher

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Got to make sure there are some customers for Crossrail if, or when, it ever opens. Wonder how much walking you'd be spared if you Crossrailed from Tottenham Court Road to Bond Street rather than sashaying along Oxford Street. Little, if any, I'd suggest once you'd negotiated your way to and from the platforms.
Realistically no one will make that journey.

Most journeys will be to or from a station on Oxford street compared to between stations on the Crossrail.

It's not about Crossrail anyway. The number of services along Oxford Street is ridiculous and removing some would be a great start!
 

Surreytraveller

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This seems to be the most appropriate place I can find to post this query…..I use the “London Live Bus Countdown” app and have found I can no longer access information for the bus stop “Park Lane/Fairfield Halls” (towards Selhurst, South Croydon or Waddon). By which I mean it just sits there trying to load the times, if I click on the timetable option for any of the three routes (154, 403, 75). I get a resource not found error message. I have it listed under favourites, if I switch to nearest it does not appear in the list of stops, when I’m literally standing right by the stop outside the halls…..does anyone know why this stop and its associated information seems to have been removed from the database?
Its probably to do with all the pop-up cycle routes in Croydon causing a load of bus routes to be diverted. The bus trackers don't seem to have taken it all into account.
 

londonteacher

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Its probably to do with all the pop-up cycle routes in Croydon causing a load of bus routes to be diverted. The bus trackers don't seem to have taken it all into account
Or, more likely that the app just hasn't had it's feeds updated.

Other apps like Citymapper don't seem to have an issue in Croydon!
 

duncombec

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I see that TfL are continuing with their ill advised policy of gradually reducing bus services along the Western half of Oxford Street.
I believe this change is out of TfL's hands, in that Westminster Council are making changes to the road layout.
 

Mikey C

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I believe this change is out of TfL's hands, in that Westminster Council are making changes to the road layout.
TfL have been pushing for full pedestrianisation of Oxford Street for ages, but Westminster have been blocking them.
 
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Busaholic

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The number of services along Oxford Street is ridiculous and removing some would be a great start!
Once the 113 and 159 have gone, there certainly will be ridiculously few bus services along Oxford Street, or bits thereof. There will be times when, during a normal day, you could stand in the centre of Oxford Circus looking westward and not see a bus in sight, in one direction anyway, something unimaginable only a couple of years ago. This can already happen looking eastward. If you see this as a start, I can only imagine your vision of the once great, world-renowned Oxford Street is of a busless desert, or with one remaining route at best.
 

duncanp

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Once the 113 and 159 have gone, there certainly will be ridiculously few bus services along Oxford Street, or bits thereof. There will be times when, during a normal day, you could stand in the centre of Oxford Circus looking westward and not see a bus in sight, in one direction anyway, something unimaginable only a couple of years ago. This can already happen looking eastward. If you see this as a start, I can only imagine your vision of the once great, world-renowned Oxford Street is of a busless desert, or with one remaining route at best.

Things might not be so bad if there was same stop interchange between buses that are terminating at Oxford Circus/Marble Arch and buses that are continuing further East/West along Oxford Street.

But the new Northern terminus for the 159 is stop RC, some 85 metres South of the Oxford Circus junction. To continue West along Oxford Street using the 390 for example involves walking East to stop OP or West to stop OR, both of which makes the walk over 200 metres and involve crossing roads.

A walk of 200 metres may not seem like much to some people, but it is an issue if you have mobility difficulties, it is pouring with rain, or you are simply dumped at a bus stop in a city with which you are unfamiliar and have no idea how to continue your journey.

The situation is no better at Marble Arch, where passengers disembarking from a terminating 113 (at stop P) will have to cross Oxford Street to pick up and Eastbound bus at stop K or L, requiring them to second guess whether the first bus to come will be a 94 (Stop L) or a 98 or 390 (Stop K).

In some ways it is a shame that the Cross River tram scheme never got off the ground. Had it done, I think there would have been a potential to build a line from Holborn along Oxford Street to Marble Arch, and then possibly South to Hyde Park Corner and Victoria. This would have relieved pressure on the tube, and improved access to the shops along Oxford Street.

However, the fact remains that curtailing buses and diverting them away from the shops on Oxford Street is not going to encourage people to use those shops. Given what has happened to retail during the COVID-19 pandemic, the authorities in London should be doing all they can to encourage shoppers back to the city centre.
 

londonteacher

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Once the 113 and 159 have gone, there certainly will be ridiculously few bus services along Oxford Street, or bits thereof. There will be times when, during a normal day, you could stand in the centre of Oxford Circus looking westward and not see a bus in sight, in one direction anyway, something unimaginable only a couple of years ago. This can already happen looking eastward. If you see this as a start, I can only imagine your vision of the once great, world-renowned Oxford Street is of a busless desert, or with one remaining route at best.

Things might not be so bad if there was same stop interchange between buses that are terminating at Oxford Circus/Marble Arch and buses that are continuing further East/West along Oxford Street.

But the new Northern terminus for the 159 is stop RC, some 85 metres South of the Oxford Circus junction. To continue West along Oxford Street using the 390 for example involves walking East to stop OP or West to stop OR, both of which makes the walk over 200 metres and involve crossing roads.

A walk of 200 metres may not seem like much to some people, but it is an issue if you have mobility difficulties, it is pouring with rain, or you are simply dumped at a bus stop in a city with which you are unfamiliar and have no idea how to continue your journey.

The situation is no better at Marble Arch, where passengers disembarking from a terminating 113 (at stop P) will have to cross Oxford Street to pick up and Eastbound bus at stop K or L, requiring them to second guess whether the first bus to come will be a 94 (Stop L) or a 98 or 390 (Stop K).

In some ways it is a shame that the Cross River tram scheme never got off the ground. Had it done, I think there would have been a potential to build a line from Holborn along Oxford Street to Marble Arch, and then possibly South to Hyde Park Corner and Victoria. This would have relieved pressure on the tube, and improved access to the shops along Oxford Street.

However, the fact remains that curtailing buses and diverting them away from the shops on Oxford Street is not going to encourage people to use those shops. Given what has happened to retail during the COVID-19 pandemic, the authorities in London should be doing all they can to encourage shoppers back to the city centre.
I completely disagree that this will have a negative impact on the shops. Both the 113 and 159 are still going to Oxford Street, just not along it. Going along Oxford Street you still have the 7, 94, 98, 139 and 390 and from looking at bus stop BX outside of Selfridges right there is a bus every minute.

Oxford Street is still busy with buses, and if people need a bus they can change.
 

duncanp

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I completely disagree that this will have a negative impact on the shops. Both the 113 and 159 are still going to Oxford Street, just not along it. Going along Oxford Street you still have the 7, 94, 98, 139 and 390 and from looking at bus stop BX outside of Selfridges right there is a bus every minute.

Oxford Street is still busy with buses, and if people need a bus they can change.

But the 159 is not going to Oxford Street, as it will be terminating at stop P in Regent Street.

Changing to continue along Oxford Street will involve a walk of about 200 metres and crossing at least one road, assuming you know where you are going. This may not be an issue for most people, but will be for those who have mobility issues, who rely on the buses more than most people.

Stop BX outside Selfridges will not be of much use to someone who is disembarking from a 113 that is terminating at stop P on the South side of Oxford Street.

And how much longer will it be before the 7, 94, 98, 139 and 390 are curtailed or diverted away from Oxford Street, given that pedestrianisation is a long term aim of both Westminster City Council and TfL?
 

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