London Buses Discussion

[Goldfish62]

I think they have to have extra seats added before being redeployed, for Red Arrow routes only have 21 seats (and standing room), normal routes get nearer 33-35 seats on 12m dual door buses.

Should be a straightforward job given it's already been done on those previously transferred to the 360 and 444.

 

[busesrusuk]

The first of the coronation buses entered service today. There are five buses in four different colours. First out, LT70 on the 148 - seen earlier today:

London Utd LT70v1 Apr23

Queen mums gate, Apr 2023

www.flickr.com

London Utd LT70v2 Apr23

Park Lane, Hilton. Apr 2023

www.flickr.com

 

[Mikey C]

Nasty looking accident today involving a northbound Metroline 113, just north of Brent Cross. Quoting the tweet (which includes photos)

Ohhh my days,
coming back over the Brent Cross flyover
A massive accident,
A bus had come off the carriage way
another car was the wrong way round up the central reservation
Air ambulance had been,
A thousand fire engines ambulances and police everywhere,
Just walked in the door

https://twitter.com/karenfthompson/status/1659245162738876435

 

[Statto]

An E400 on the 407 smoking quite badly in West Croydon, just after it left the bus station.

Smoke billows from bus in Croydon

The bus was seen stationary outside West Croydon Bus Station as onlookers stopped to watch what seemed to be smoke billowing from underneath it. Firefighters were later seen attending the scene.

news.sky.com

 

[Busaholic]

And the X119 will take the obvious and fast route along Kent Gate Way and Gravel Hill, rather than dawdling with the traffic through West Wickham

Sorry to be so dilatory, but was incapacitated at the time: West Wickham is one of the stops, whereas Hayes is not, so don't think you're right. unless you have more information than was provided by the press releases.

 

[Hophead]

Sorry to be so dilatory, but was incapacitated at the time: West Wickham is one of the stops, whereas Hayes is not, so don't think you're right. unless you have more information than was provided by the press releases.

No - you're right; I misread the map, though I would still take the Addington route if I were intending to run an express bus from Bromley to Croydon.

 

[Busaholic]

No - you're right; I misread the map, though I would still take the Addington route if I were intending to run an express bus from Bromley to Croydon.

I wouldn't disagree.

 

[MotCO]

I wouldn't disagree.

But wouldn't that partially parallel the Trams? For additional custom go via West Wickham, for speed go via New Addington

 

[Thirteen]

Route 93 has introduced the electric buses and have to say I quite like them, much brighter compared to the older models. Wish the skylight was wider though.

Wonder if we'll see Routes 39 and 493 use the Irizar ie Tram buses since Go-Ahead has ordered quite a number of them.

 

[Busaholic]

But wouldn't that partially parallel the Trams? For additional custom go via West Wickham, for speed go via New Addington

I wouldn't expect TfL to allow the buses to run over a parallel route to the trams, even non-stop. The pro-bus retention argument was lost, to all intents, when the trams were introduced in 2000. I still believe the 54 should not have been withdrawn between Elmers End and West Croydon.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I wouldn't expect TfL to allow the buses to run over a parallel route to the trams, even non-stop. The pro-bus retention argument was lost, to all intents, when the trams were introduced in 2000. I still believe the 54 should not have been withdrawn between Elmers End and West Croydon.

It’s been over twenty years and the 54 cutback is still a controversial decision, even pro Tram groups at the time felt it was an unnecessary step, the 54 served an entirely different purpose in being an orbital route linking three busy urban centres across outer and inner suburban South London; Woolwich, Lewisham & Croydon.

 

[dmncf]

Route 93 has introduced the electric buses and have to say I quite like them, much brighter compared to the older models. Wish the skylight was wider though.

Wonder if we'll see Routes 39 and 493 use the Irizar ie Tram buses since Go-Ahead has ordered quite a number of them.

Is there any progress on the introduction of the Irizar ie Trams on route 358?

 

[Goldfish62]

Is there any progress on the introduction of the Irizar ie Trams on route 358?

Awaiting the power supply connection. Should definitely be done sometime over the summer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jun 2023 ==

Wonder if we'll see Routes 39 and 493 use the Irizar ie Tram buses since Go-Ahead has ordered quite a number of them.

The ieTram is quite a niche product which requires opportunity charging. It's highly unlikely therefore that they'd be ordered as standard.

 

[Man of Kent]

The ieTram is quite a niche product which requires opportunity charging. It's highly unlikely therefore that they'd be ordered as standard.

The Irizar website suggests that the company offers conventional overnight (slow) charging, fast charging, and ultra fast charging - as for the 358 - with batteries appropriately sized for the different charging methods.

 

[Goldfish62]

The Irizar website suggests that the company offers conventional overnight (slow) charging, fast charging, and ultra fast charging - as for the 358 - with batteries appropriately sized for the different charging methods.

Yea, but it's still primarily aimed at the opportunity charging market.

Increasing battery capacity increases the capital cost and weight and therefore reduces passenger capacity. There are better products out there designed specifically for overnight charging.

 

[Busaholic]

Yea, but it's still primarily aimed at the opportunity charging market.

Increasing battery capacity increases the capital cost and weight and therefore reduces passenger capacity. There are better products out there designed specifically for overnight charging.

What's interesting about the 358, a route I used to know well, is the length of it with every section busy at most times of the day. Having the battery charging only able to be done at each end of the route, given S.E. London's horrific traffic hotspots, will severely impact the ability of controllers to curtail buses.

 

[Goldfish62]

What's interesting about the 358, a route I used to know well, is the length of it with every section busy at most times of the day. Having the battery charging only able to be done at each end of the route, given S.E. London's horrific traffic hotspots, will severely impact the ability of controllers to curtail buses.

It's a valid point, but there'll be resilience built in so a bus can miss a charge on one trip of it's curtailed. I do agree though that it can reduce flexibility.

 

[MotCO]

What's interesting about the 358, a route I used to know well, is the length of it with every section busy at most times of the day. Having the battery charging only able to be done at each end of the route, given S.E. London's horrific traffic hotspots, will severely impact the ability of controllers to curtail buses.

Although the bus route does meander around the south east - possibly any cutailments could allow it to go straight to one end to charge without meandering round the route, or have a swap en route at the Green Street Green garage.

 

[317 forever]

Route 93 has introduced the electric buses and have to say I quite like them, much brighter compared to the older models. Wish the skylight was wider though.

Wonder if we'll see Routes 39 and 493 use the Irizar ie Tram buses since Go-Ahead has ordered quite a number of them.

Route 39 has just been retained on the basis of new electric buses. As full-size buses are rare in London I reckon these will be BYDs, usefully matching the type due for route 265.

Route 493 has a later tender date so might not be retained by Go-Ahead then.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Arriva London's Brixton depot will be losing nearly 40 buses worth of work at the start of 2024, with both the 133 and 333 being awarded elsewhere. These tender losses may mean we see the first large-scale withdrawals of hybrid buses in London. A large chunk of Brixton's allocation is 60/11 plate Volvo hybrids, and while there's still plenty of similarly aged diesel E400s and DWs around the Arriva empire, I'm not sure they'll be reallocated elsewhere.

133

Contract awarded to Abellio London with 24 new electric double deckers. (7 years) (240523)

20 Jan 24

333

Contract awarded to London General with 15 new electric double deckers. (7 years) (240523)

20 Jan 24

Arriva's Barking depot has also lost the 325 to Blue Triangle, leaving that depot with just two routes remaining (150 and 175). The depot is a relic from the Grey Green days and I wonder how much of a future it has, having already lost the 128, 173 and 368 over the last few years alone with no routes won since the 175 back in 2017.

325

Contract awarded to Blue Triangle with 12 new electric single deckers. (7 years) (090623)

2 Mar 24

It's not all gloom for Arriva though - they've won back the 76 from Go-Ahead from March 2024, which should see the route "come home" to Tottenham depot.

76

Contract awarded to Arriva London with 20 existing hybrid New Bus for London double deckers. (5 years) (090623)

23 Mar 24

Info as always from the excellent London Bus Routes website.

 

[Snow1964]

TfL have published their annual bus fleet audit
Data at TfL year end 31st March 2023

Bus fleet 8643 buses, down 152 from 8795 year earlier

The preamble says 949 electric, 20 Fuel cell, 1 new routemaster retrofitted to electric, 997 hybrid new routemasters (so 2 must have been withdrawn). The 2 single deck fuel cell buses which hardly ever got used also gone.

RATP has youngest fleet averaging 6.21 years, Arriva has oldest fleet (except small Sullivan) average 8.99 years

Just 201 new buses entered service in 2022, which I think is lowest for at least 30 years

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/fleet-annual-audit-report-31-march-2023.pdf

EDIT
just checked March 2017 report and there were 9616 buses, so fleet has shrunk nearly 1000 buses

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/fleet-audit-31-march-2017-final.pdf

 

[cnjb8]

TfL have published their annual bus fleet audit
Data at TfL year end 31st March 2023

Bus fleet 8643 buses, down 152 from 8795 year earlier

The preamble says 949 electric, 20 Fuel cell, 1 new routemaster retrofitted to electric, 997 hybrid new routemasters (so 2 must have been withdrawn). The 2 single deck fuel cell buses which hardly ever got used also gone.

RATP has youngest fleet averaging 6.21 years, Arriva has oldest fleet (except small Sullivan) average 8.99 years

Just 201 new buses entered service in 2022, which I think is lowest for at least 30 years

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/fleet-annual-audit-report-31-march-2023.pdf

EDIT
just checked March 2017 report and there were 9616 buses, so fleet has shrunk nearly 1000 buses

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/fleet-audit-31-march-2017-final.pdf

Is 201 new buses lower than 2020 and 2021 levels? That's suprising

 

[James H]

Is it surprising, given that buses introduced in 2022 would have been ordered in 2021 when the covid situation was still more acute?

 

[Snow1964]

Is 201 new buses lower than 2020 and 2021 levels? That's suprising

Yes.
Low years were 2006 (about 390), 2007 (about 300), following the completion of low floor conversion in early 2006. (some school buses step entrance continued until July 2006)

Then recent lows
2020 was 316 buses
2021 was 335 buses

Bus fleet data & audits

An audit of the LBSL contracted fleet is carried out once a year. The data provides the fleet size, respective percentage of the fleet and average age by operator

tfl.gov.uk

 

[cnjb8]

Is it surprising, given that buses introduced in 2022 would have been ordered in 2021 when the covid situation was still more acute?

That is true

Yes.
Low years were 2006 (about 390), 2007 (about 300), following the completion of low floor conversion in early 2006. (some school buses step entrance continued until July 2006)

Then recent lows
2020 was 316 buses
2021 was 335 buses

Bus fleet data & audits

An audit of the LBSL contracted fleet is carried out once a year. The data provides the fleet size, respective percentage of the fleet and average age by operator

tfl.gov.uk

Thank you

 

[MotCO]

Is 201 new buses lower than 2020 and 2021 levels? That's suprising

There were 334 new buses in 2021 and 312 in 2020 per the 2021 and 2022 audits

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/fleet-annual-audit-report-31-march-2022.pdf

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/fleet-annual-audit-report-31-march-2021.pdf

Edit: not sure why these tables show different figures to that quoted by @Snow1964

 

[Dstock7080]

607 to become SL8 on 15 July 2023.

From first bus on Saturday 15 July 2023.

From Saturday 15 July, route 607 is renumbered as route SL8. Please look out for the new route number on the front of buses and on other travel information tools.

Route SL8 runs as an express bus service between White City and Uxbridge, serving all the same stops as route 607.

Some stops in Acton Vale, Ealing Christchurch, Hayes, Hillingdon Heath and Southall are renamed to better reflect their locations.

There are currently no other changes to the service.

Route SL8 is part of Superloop, a proposed network of express bus routes that would improve connections and journey times between key outer London Town centres and transport hubs.

which answers the question, that Superloop will have its own number series.

 

[LUYMun]

I regret saying these words now, having been borrowing them off wibble. Delete if you may.

 

[GusB]

607 to become SL8 on 15 July 2023.
which answers the question, that Superloop will have its own number series.

What's the source of this information, please? Also, you must ensure that any screenshots of text are accompanied by an actual text transcription; this makes your posts more accessible.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm afraid that's not a real poster, given the erroneous meaning of "first bus" and the lack of official TfL publication.

My thoughts as soon as I saw it. Why on earth someone would want to produce a fake poster like that beats me.