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London Buses Discussion

Busaholic

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Good luck with that - temporary traffic lights seem to be popping up everwhere!
I was watching a recent YouTube video of a full journey on Amsterdam tram route 2 at actual speed and noticed several things that make it so different from London, apart from the obvious one of trams interacting with other traffic through all the streets. There was no superfluous street furniture, everything there was necessary and needed, an absence of signs and arrows everywhere, painted on streets or otherwise, and each tram stop impeccable with adequate and functioning seating.Then there was the general speed of the tram and all other traffic, segregation of cyclists, no roadworks, cones or temporary traffic lights and no obviously empty shops, in front of which vans were being allowed to make deliveries in dedicated spaces without impeding others. Oh, and no scaffolding spotted anywhere! Still, we Brexitted to avoid this hell-hole, didn't we? :rolleyes:
 
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Goldfish62

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There's a separate thread for this, but the ADL/BYD electric buses being taken out of service for checks will have serious effects in London

The recall notice was issued by the DVSA on 31/1/24. It relates to the Hispacold HVAC system (Hispacold supply bus, coach and train HVAC systems globally). There's clearly no discernable impact to bus services.
 

trivran

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Hate to be like this as there is of course no skill involved in riding the superloop all the way round. But I think an optimal run could be achieved going from Thamesmead to North Woolwich (naturally) on a Sunday morning.. dependent on arriving slightly early in to Bromley North and making a 1 minute connection at East Croydon (that involves changing bus stops and not riding either the SL5 or SL7 to completion - just the full loop) for a journey time of 5h50. Miss the impossible-by-the-timetable connection at Bromley and your best shot becomes 6h20. Fear I may have caught some sort of bug..
 

fairysdad

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London, Surrey... bit of a blur round here...
I note from London Vehicle Finder that route 200 is mostly single deck E200s rather than the scheduled Optare Metrodeckers following the fire in mid January when they were stood down. Is there any news when the Optares will return or what the root cause of the fire was?
Would this be why I've seen a number of route 200s with their number on a piece of paper stuck to the outside of the destination board on the bus?
 

DynamicSpirit

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Maybe wait for the Silvertown Tunnel to open? ;)

Haha, that would be a year away (mind you, given how long it usually takes me to do low-priority stuff, maybe that's quite realistic). And it might mean I never get to experience the Superloop to North Woolwich, depending what TfL do with the SL2 route once the Silvertown Tunnel is open. Off the top of my head, at that point I'd expect diverting the SL2 to North Greenwich would make for a more useful route - although it would also leave a pretty big gap in the complete loop, between North Greenwich and Thamesmead.

Does anyone believe, by the way, that route will terminate at Grove Park ( never historically a turning point, let alone terminus, from the North) rather than the much more obvious Bromley? If necessary, I daresay a small decrease in frequency on a parallel route could be made.

It does seem a little odd. I guess that's because the Superloop is just taking over a historical route so TfL haven't really thought about changing it. Based on your suggestion, I actually wonder whether running it instead as a North Greenwich-Grove Park-Bromley service would make more sense, especially if that connects with SL2 after the Silvertown Tunnel is open. After all, you have a very easy Jubilee line link from North Greenwich to Canary Wharf, which no bus is ever going to be able to compete with. And it would solve the aforesaid problem of the gap in the SL loop round London.
 

Busaholic

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Haha, that would be a year away (mind you, given how long it usually takes me to do low-priority stuff, maybe that's quite realistic). And it might mean I never get to experience the Superloop to North Woolwich, depending what TfL do with the SL2 route once the Silvertown Tunnel is open. Off the top of my head, at that point I'd expect diverting the SL2 to North Greenwich would make for a more useful route - although it would also leave a pretty big gap in the complete loop, between North Greenwich and Thamesmead.



It does seem a little odd. I guess that's because the Superloop is just taking over a historical route so TfL haven't really thought about changing it. Based on your suggestion, I actually wonder whether running it instead as a North Greenwich-Grove Park-Bromley service would make more sense, especially if that connects with SL2 after the Silvertown Tunnel is open. After all, you have a very easy Jubilee line link from North Greenwich to Canary Wharf, which no bus is ever going to be able to compete with. And it would solve the aforesaid problem of the gap in the SL loop round London.
I wouldn't expect the SL2 to continue to reach North Woolwich once the Silvertown Tunnel opens. The gap between North Greenwich and Thamesmead may be greater than North Woolwich and Thamesmead, but would be more manageable for a great many passengers. There was never going to be a way to solve the problem of joining the two sides of the Thames directly by bus in Outer London without a new road tunnel somewhere near Thamesmead. A link between Docklands and Bromley, thence on to Croydon, Heathrow etc would seem to fit the Superloop concept well, and of course those changing at Bromley could still access Chislehurst and Sidcup by SL3.
 

Edvid

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I think it's an iBus problem. If the controller can't set up the curtailment remotely then the driver should be able to on the MDT. Sometimes it doesn't work. I have no idea why, but maybe because the system is getting old and worn out.
On that note, TfL have awarded Init a 10-year contract for iBus2 (the next-gen replacement).

iBus next generation coming after TfL awards Init 10-year contract​

routeone Team
Published March 5, 2024

Transport for London (TfL) will introduce a next generation of its iBus system after awarding a 10-year, £160 million contract for the work to Init.

The supplier will replace on-vehicle hardware and back-office services for all buses and trams used on behalf of TfL, displacing an existing system that has been in use on buses in the capital for 17 years.

Among the benefits of next generation iBus will be new service control tools for operators. It will also integrate with current voice radio, payment and performance management systems, which TfL says will lead “to improved service reliability and information provision for customers.”

Also enhanced by the shift will be the reliability and accuracy of real-time information by including disruption and diversion information both aboard and off buses. That will be made available to customers via onboard information displays and audio-visual announcements, and through the TfL Go app.

Use of data from previous journeys on the day in question will leverage accuracy of arrival information provided by iBus, particularly at stops early on a bus’s route. The next generation of the platform will also enable TfL to provide better quality information to third-party apps for journey planning.

Other benefits for operators will include an ability to change iBus equipment themselves. That will reduce downtime when repairs are needed, TfL claims. The technology will also issue hazard warnings to drivers when tight turns or narrow roads are encountered.

TfL Director of Information Technology Rebecca Bissell says the authority is “very pleased” to have awarded the contract for the next generation iBus to Init.

She adds that the solutions put forward by the supplier will help TfL to build on existing success with the platform “as we continue to enhance the safety and reliability of our service through improved real-time information for our operators and customers.”

Init Managing Director Jens Mullak notes that the new iBus system will have “a modular open technology platform that is scalable and [which] accommodates TfL’s future development ambitions.” Init already works with over 1,100 public transport organisations globally.

TfL says that for the past year, it has been engaging in work complementary to iBus by the installation of 300 additional stop-mounted ‘countdown’ displays across the capital, taking the total to almost 3,000 spread across London’s 19,000 bus stops.
 

Edvid

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The original iBus contract was awarded to Siemens in 2005, then novated to Trapeze (the current supplier) in 2009.
 

londonbridge

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Would this be why I've seen a number of route 200s with their number on a piece of paper stuck to the outside of the destination board on the bus?
I had that with a 157 on Monday morning on my way to work. Didn’t help that it was 5:30am so still dark and I couldn’t tell whether it was my bus or a ‘not in service’ bus until it was almost at the stop and I could see the number.

I’ve also recently seen 157’s with a completely blank destination board, just plain white, not even black with miniature writing like an opticians chart which I mentioned in a previous post.
 

H&I

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All the SL2 buses I have seen show “19” on the back rather than “SL2”.
 

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talldave

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Took my son to ride SL3 at the weekend, but despite us both loving the New Routemaster, we had to disembark prematurely as he felt really travel sick (first time ever in any vehicle).

It's a big bus and it felt like we were on a timed lap at Silverstone as it was thrown around roundabouts and small roads that don't really seem suitable. We hit several kerbs and at one point I had to clutch onto the nearby grab rail to avoid being thrown off my seat. We were upstairs, which perhaps exacerbates the swaying motion. Has anyone else noticed/experienced this?
 

Edsmith

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Took my son to ride SL3 at the weekend, but despite us both loving the New Routemaster, we had to disembark prematurely as he felt really travel sick (first time ever in any vehicle).

It's a big bus and it felt like we were on a timed lap at Silverstone as it was thrown around roundabouts and small roads that don't really seem suitable. We hit several kerbs and at one point I had to clutch onto the nearby grab rail to avoid being thrown off my seat. We were upstairs, which perhaps exacerbates the swaying motion. Has anyone else noticed/experienced this?
I like the New Routemaster but I don't think they're ideally suited to the SL3 although I've not experienced motion sickness.
 

Busaholic

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Took my son to ride SL3 at the weekend, but despite us both loving the New Routemaster, we had to disembark prematurely as he felt really travel sick (first time ever in any vehicle).

It's a big bus and it felt like we were on a timed lap at Silverstone as it was thrown around roundabouts and small roads that don't really seem suitable. We hit several kerbs and at one point I had to clutch onto the nearby grab rail to avoid being thrown off my seat. We were upstairs, which perhaps exacerbates the swaying motion. Has anyone else noticed/experienced this?
It sounds to me that your bus was being driven by someone who perhaps should be considering a different job. Hitting several kerbs is unacceptable on a route for which the New Routemaster has been both cleared and hasn't been reported to happen in any other posts on here. Maybe a shorter model than the NRM should have been chosen for the route, though.
 

MontyP

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Basically yes. Temporary allocation whilst the Me's are being dealt with...
Seems to be affecting other local routes as well. I've seen route 57 and 131 services also with paper stickers for the route number and no destination blind.

While I'm on the subject of the 57, the service has been quite frankly appalling for months on end now. Often gaps of 25 mins on a high frequency route, I think the service level is supposed to be 6 per hour which is barely enough at peak times. The route serves a lot of schools and two big hospitals in Kingston and Tooting, as well as Kingston and Wimbledon town centres. Is the poor service due to all the roadworks in Kingston, Wordle Rd, etc? Is it impacted by the LTN debacle in Streatham?
 

Busaholic

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Seems to be affecting other local routes as well. I've seen route 57 and 131 services also with paper stickers for the route number and no destination blind.

While I'm on the subject of the 57, the service has been quite frankly appalling for months on end now. Often gaps of 25 mins on a high frequency route, I think the service level is supposed to be 6 per hour which is barely enough at peak times. The route serves a lot of schools and two big hospitals in Kingston and Tooting, as well as Kingston and Wimbledon town centres. Is the poor service due to all the roadworks in Kingston, Wordle Rd, etc? Is it impacted by the LTN debacle in Streatham?
Can't answer your questions, but the Streatham Wells LTN was abolished with immediate effect late last week, although it may take a fortnight for all the signs to be taken down. (Source, Times newspaper print copy, so unable to provide link.) The London Ambulance Service adding their concerns to the general opprobrium may have done the trick!
 

JD2168

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Having seen Roger French’s observations in his blog I can understand why the LTN has been suspended. It looked a total mess with buses & other vehicles not moving for a long while.
 
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MotCO

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LOTS has confirmed the tender award of the 'Roundabout' routes in Orpington - Metrobus retains them, with 34 electric vehicles in due course. Given that the R3 is currently 8.8m vehicles, and the R1, R3, R4 and R8 are 9.0m vehicles, I wonder what vehicles will be selected? ADL 100s? Switch Solos?

Source: Lots.org.uk
LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes with the operators listed below:



RouteCurrent OperatorNew Operator
PVR
Vehicles
R1MetrobusMetrobus
6​
New electric single deck
R2MetrobusMetrobus
4​
New electric single deck
R3MetrobusMetrobus
6​
New electric single deck
R4MetrobusMetrobus
6​
New electric single deck
R8MetrobusMetrobus
2​
New electric single deck
R11MetrobusMetrobus
10​
New electric single deck
 

PGAT

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The Switch Metrocity as supplied to Transport UK and Arriva London is 8.7m so no reason why these wouldn't be considered. Although maybe GoAhead won't be so keen on Switch products given their experience...
Enviro 200EVs seem the most likely since they’re already on other Metrobus routes
 

Goldfish62

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Enviro 200EVs seem the most likely since they’re already on other Metrobus routes
The shortest available is 9.6m so unlikely to be suitable for some of the routes. That's why ADL have launched the E100EV.
 

MotCO

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Enviro 200EVs seem the most likely since they’re already on other Metrobus routes
But the smallest ADL/BYD EV200s are 9.6m, and there are tight corners on the R4, such that the Streetlites can't (or shouldn't) operate them, and the R8 is tight enough anyway. The ADL100 are 8.5m long.
 

PGAT

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But the smallest ADL/BYD EV200s are 9.6m, and there are tight corners on the R4, such that the Streetlites can't (or shouldn't) operate them, and the R8 is tight enough anyway. The ADL100 are 8.5m long.
That doesnt mean shorter vehicles cant be ordered. The Wright GB Kite is only 10.9m but shorter versions will be made for the 255 which has some tight turns
 
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But the smallest ADL/BYD EV200s are 9.6m, and there are tight corners on the R4, such that the Streetlites can't (or shouldn't) operate them, and the R8 is tight enough anyway. The ADL100 are 8.5m long.
The new contract for the R routes doesn't start until March 2025 and being a retained contracts, Go-Ahead could go for something completely new like the E100EV for the routes that need smaller buses, the next generation E200EV should come out around then or at least have orders in place by then.
 

MasterSpenny

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the middle of pointless protests
Sadiq Khan is proposing a ‘Bakerloop’ express bus service, that would run between Elephant and Castle and Lewisham. This is if he is elected as Mayor again this year.
Sadiq Khan has pledged to bring in a “Bakerloop” express bus service between Lewisham and the Elephant & Castle if he is re-elected as London’s mayor next month.

The bus route would follow the proposed Bakerloo Line extension to Lewisham, with stops at Burgess Park, Old Kent Road and New Cross Gate, running alongside the existing 21 service.

Khan’s pledge follows the the launch of the Superloop fast buses in outer London, including the SL3 link from Thamesmead to Bexleyheath, Sidcup and Bromley, and the SL5 from from Bromley to Croydon.
The final service in the “loop”, the SL2 from North Woolwich to Walthamstow, launched last month. The mayor’s campaign team said demand on the new buses was 15 per cent above the network average, while passenger numbers on the West Croydon-Heathrow SL7 went up by 56 per cent in the three months after it was doubled in frequency and rebranded.

City Hall has been pushing for a Bakerloo extension for some years, but the government has so far declined to fund the route – even though Lewisham town centre is already undergoing major redevelopment and housing is beginning to replace the retail parks on Old Kent Road.

The Labour mayor’s aides said that the new bus “will help kickstart housing development in the area, while work on the tube extension is progressed”.
He said: “The new Superloop services have been a huge success in outer London so far, and if I’m re-elected the new Bakerloop Express will help Londoners get between Elephant & Castle, Old Kent Road, New Cross and Lewisham much quicker and more easily.

“I continue to make the case as strongly as ever that we need the Bakerloo line Tube extension to get underway as soon as possible, and TfL are lobbying ministers about the funding the project needs. In the meantime I’m determined that we do all we can to provide the very best service across south London.”

Labour’s Len Duvall, who is standing to serve a seventh term as London Assembly member for Greenwich & Lewisham, said: “This new service is another example of Labour in power working to improve transport connections across London, making access from Lewisham to Lambeth faster and smoother.”

A total of 13 candidates are standing to be mayor, although the Conservative government has changed the voting system this time around so voters will select just one candidate with a cross, rather than giving a first and second preference as in previous elections.

In another change brought in by the government, photo ID is needed for those using polling stations to vote – voters without ID have until April 24 to apply for a special card. ID will not be needed for postal votes – the deadline for getting postal votes is April 17.

The election will be on May 2, with results announced two days later. More details at londonelects.org.uk.

Mayoral candidates: Femy Amin (Animal Welfare Party), Count Binface (Count Binface for Mayor of London), Rob Blackie (Lib Dem), Natalie Campbell (Independent), Howard Cox (Reform UK), Amy Gallagher (Social Democratic Party), Zoe Garrett (Green Party), Tarun Ghulati (Independent), Susan Hall (Conservative), Sadiq Khan (Labour), Andreas Michli (Independent), Brian Rose (London Real), Nick Scanlon (Britain First)

Greenwich & Lewisham assembly candidates: Len Duvall (Labour & Co-op), Josh Matthews (Lib Dem), Mark Simpson (Reform UK), Karin Tearle (Green Party), Kieran Terry (Conservative)
 

PGAT

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Sadiq Khan is proposing a ‘Bakerloop’ express bus service, that would run between Elephant and Castle and Lewisham. This is if he is elected as Mayor again this year.
I've heard a lot of backlash about this but this is an excellent move imo
 

YorkRailFan

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I've heard a lot of backlash about this but this is an excellent move imo
Agreed, could really support the business case for extending the Bakerloo Line out East if buses become seriously overcrowded.
 

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