London Crosslink

[delt1c]

Problem was also it was slow going around London

 

[2192]

A satirical article appeared in Modern Railways soon after it was introduced, how Hare caught the Crosslink Norwich to Basingstoke but Tortoise changed at Stratford (or Liverpool St) and Waterloo and got there quicker. I used Crosslink once or twice with a one day travel card Stratford to Feltham just to do the otherwise-freight-only link at Kew. The scenery wasn't very exciting, and it was difficult to find the platform advertised at Stratford.

 

[dk1]

Amazing to think almost all had a buffet too. Only exception was 399 which had no counter so was trolley only. There was a plan to get the guards to work catering too hence why their office & the only internal door controls where adjacent on 201-208. The RMT however was having none of that nonsense & it came to nothing as expected.

 

[StephenHunter]

Where do you stick a buffet on a 170?

 

[dk1]

Where do you stick a buffet on a 170?

It was in the centre car next to the senior conductors compartment with a high shelf opposite where you could stand & drink/eat. They are no different in width to any other carriage.

 

[Sprinter107]

There was a similar bar on the Midland Mainline 3 car 170s in the centre car called Ms bar.

 

[hexagon789]

There was a similar bar on the Midland Mainline 3 car 170s in the centre car called Ms bar.

Hull Trains as well, those four sets passed to ScotRail and I believe were the last with buffet still in situ, the ex-Midland Mainline and Anglia ones having long lost theirs.

The Anglia and HT buffet cars were identical in design, including an extra toilet. The Midland Mainline ones had no toilet and the entire middle section of the coach had 2+1 First Class seating, the original First Class on MM 170s when they were all still 2-car being 12 seats arranged 2+2 behind the cab at each end.

 

[dk1]

Hull Trains as well, those four sets passed to ScotRail and I believe were the last with buffet still in situ, the ex-Midland Mainline and Anglia ones having long lost theirs.

The Anglia and HT buffet cars were identical in design, including an extra toilet. The Midland Mainline ones had no toilet and the entire middle section of the coach had 2+1 First Class seating, the original First Class on MM 170s when they were all still 2-car being 12 seats arranged 2+2 behind the cab at each end.

Anglia Railways 3-car sets where also 2+1 first class in the 50 driving car right up to the inner double doors so approx 25 seats. Very nice units indeed but often severely crowded due to the lack of standard seating.

 

[hexagon789]

Anglia Railways 3-car sets where also 2+1 first class in the 50 driving car right up to the inner double doors so approx 25 seats. Very nice units indeed but often severely crowded due to the lack of standard seating.

30 seats, ditto Hull Trains. ScotRail declassified the centre section for a period before re-seating the centre section to Standard, giving officially only 7 First Class seats and a lovely section of 23 declassified 2+1 seats in the rest of the car! Don't think it was very long before they changed it though.

 

[dk1]

30 seats, ditto Hull Trains. ScotRail declassified the centre section for a period before re-seating the centre section to Standard, giving officially only 7 First Class seats and a lovely section of 23 declassified 2+1 seats in the rest of the car! Don't think it was very long before they changed it though.

That many seats, wow. I’d forgotten how top heavy on 1st we had them but such a high spec requested by Anglia at the time.

 

[hexagon789]

That many seats, wow. I’d forgotten how top heavy on 1st we had them but such a high spec requested by Anglia at the time.

Seemed to be a First-heavy sort of era; I'm reminded of the original Virgin Pendolino and Midland Mainline 4-car Meridian specs. If anything Anglia was relatively restrained!

 

[dk1]

Seemed to be a First-heavy sort of era; I'm reminded of the original Virgin Pendolino and Midland Mainline 4-car Meridian specs. If anything Anglia was relatively restrained!

I think if you went on total train capacity it was reasonably a higher percentage being almost 1/3rd of the unit being 1st class then a buffet in part of standard. We also averaged 1 toilet per coach too.

 

[TheBigD]

There was a similar bar on the Midland Mainline 3 car 170s in the centre car called Ms bar.

Hull Trains as well, those four sets passed to ScotRail and I believe were the last with buffet still in situ, the ex-Midland Mainline and Anglia ones having long lost theirs.

The Anglia and HT buffet cars were identical in design, including an extra toilet. The Midland Mainline ones had no toilet and the entire middle section of the coach had 2+1 First Class seating, the original First Class on MM 170s when they were all still 2-car being 12 seats arranged 2+2 behind the cab at each end.

The Hull Trains sets had the same size buffet as the MML sets. The Anglia buffets were smaller as they also had the Guards office which the HT/MML sets did not.

Whilst the Hull Trains sets and the Anglia sets had a toilet in the centre cars, they both had a different seating layout, and the luggage stacks in a different location.

 

[Sprinter107]

I know that the Midland Mainline sets kept the bar when they came to Central Trains, but it was padlocked, the rather comfy first class seating was kept too.

 

[Dr_Paul]

I remember seeing a 170 on the NLL and seeing the platform indicator showing a service to Basingstoke. If I remember correctly, its stopping pattern was a bit odd: I have a feeling it didn't stop at Willesden Junction or perhaps some other interchange station, West Hampstead maybe. Perhaps someone can confirm this.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I remember seeing a 170 on the NLL and seeing the platform indicator showing a service to Basingstoke. If I remember correctly, its stopping pattern was a bit odd: I have a feeling it didn't stop at Willesden Junction or perhaps some other interchange station, West Hampstead maybe. Perhaps someone can confirm this.

I remember seeing a 170 on the NLL and seeing the platform indicator showing a service to Basingstoke. If I remember correctly, its stopping pattern was a bit odd: I have a feeling it didn't stop at Willesden Junction or perhaps some other interchange station, West Hampstead maybe. Perhaps someone can confirm this.

From memory -certainly West Hampstead (there was even signage on the Thameslink station advising so !) , and probably Highbury and Islington.

Someone here will know.

 

[hexagon789]

I remember seeing a 170 on the NLL and seeing the platform indicator showing a service to Basingstoke. If I remember correctly, its stopping pattern was a bit odd: I have a feeling it didn't stop at Willesden Junction or perhaps some other interchange station, West Hampstead maybe. Perhaps someone can confirm this.

According to the 2000 timetable you had:

0440 Ipswich
0818 Highbury & Islington
0838 Colchester
0924 Norwich
1325 Witham
1522 Chelmsford

All to Basingstoke. From Chelmsford, all called at Stratford, Highbury & Islington, West Hampstead, Feltham, Staines and Woking. The 0440 ex-Ipswich, also called at Romford, the 0924 ex-Norwich and 1325 ex-Witham also called at Farnborough (Main). The 0924 from Norwich called Diss, Stowmarket, Ipswich, Colchester and Witham to Chelmsford otherwise only the 1325 starting at Witham called at Witham.

Departures off Chelmsford were:
0518, 0859, 1055, 1335 and 1522.

All trains had a buffet Mon-Sat.

The Saturday pattern was much more regularised with a nice two-hourly interval off Colchester - 0500, 0716, 0916, 1116, 1316, 1516 (in contrast to Mon-Fri where it was 0500, 0838 and a 1027 only). The 0500 was the 0440 from Ipswich again, the 0716 started at Ipswich at 0658, the 0916 from Norwich at 0816, departing Ipswich ar 0858. All services then made the same stops to Basingstoke: Stratford, Highbury & Islington, West Hampstead, Feltham, Staines, Woking and Farnborough (Main). The 0440 from Ipswich again called additionally at Romford.

On Sundays, again a tidy two-hourly service off Colchester - 1045, 1245, 1245 and 1645 all making all the usual stops. Plus an 0931 Highbury & Islington to Basingstoke.

Going north, Mon-Fri from Basingstoke you had:

0826 to Colchester (all stops bar Romford & Witham)
1032 to Witham (omits Romford)
1232 to Chelmsford (omits Romford)
1342 to Highbury & Islington
1633 to Highbury & Islington (omitted Farnborough)
1806 to Ipswich (calls Romford)

Saturdays:
0835 Colchester (no Farnborough, Romford or Witham)
1031 Colchester (no Romford or Witham)
1232 Colchester (no Romford or Witham)
1405 Highbury & Islington (no Farnborough)
1635 Norwich (no Farnborough, no Romford, does call Witham and fast Ipswich to Norwich)
1832 Ipswich (no Romford or Witham calls)

Sundays (no services call at Romford or Witham):
1122 Colchester
1322 Colchester
1521 Norwich (calling Stowmarket and Diss between Ipswich and Norwich)
1721 Colchester
1921 Norwich (again calling Stowmarket and Diss, Ipswich-Norwich)

Again all Mon-Sat trains have a buffer shown, but no catering on Sundays.

This is from Table 12 in the Summer 2000 NRT, the table does not appear in my Summer 1999 or Winter 2002-03 NRT, I have no other timetables of this period.

 

[StephenHunter]

Never realised Crosslink called at Romford. It's generally been an off-peak only call for GA's EMU fleet, certainly not their InterCity stuff.