London Euston - Liverpool Lime Street

[RailwayDan]

Hello everyone,

I've been looking around for a while but this is my first time posting.

From September I'm going to have to be making fairly regular trips up to Liverpool, and have been trying to work out the cheapest way to do it.

The first option seemed to be the VT service from Euston to Lime Street in just over 2hrs, but the lack of advance tickets at 1 week in advance and the average cost (with a 16-25 railcard) being around £40 (or £46.20 for an off-peak return) has made me look elsewhere.

So then I found London Midland and their £16.15 Super Off-Peak Return (LM Only), with the journey time being 75% longer via Stafford. Having never travelled on LM before my question is, is this the best way of doing it to save money? Time is not really an issue for me, I was looking at the coach initially, but National Express is £9-£16 each way and takes 6 hours!

Do LM have any catering? And do they have a first class service like VT or EMT? I currently use the Meridian line regularly and usually travel on 1st Advance tickets.

Also, just checked on LM mixing deck and the 50% offer they have on the London - Birmingham route till 3rd July is also on the London - Liverpool ticket, so Super Off Peak return (with a railcard) is only £8.10! Bargain.

Thanks, Dan

 

[tony_mac]

The £46.20 off-peak return is valid at any time on Virgin trains (which is handy because the peak-time trains are generally much quieter).
The LM ticket is quite restrictive on the times.

You may get a trolley service between Stafford and Liverpool, but you may not.
LM do have first class, but it's pretty small and not very different to standard. It may have a table, which isn't guaranteed in standard, depending on the actual train that turns up - some have 5 seats across instead of the usual 4.

Bear in mind that it's only 75% longer if you make the connections, if it's just a bit late it could be another hour waiting for the next service (or half-hour northbound).

But, it is cheap, and a much better option than the coach!

 

[First class]

In terms of Virgin Trains - London-Liverpool it is cheaper to buy a Kensington Olympia - Liverpool ticket for £45.20 routed +ANY PERMITTED. This also includes a free return transfer on London Underground. So potentially saving you a few quid there.

There are also a limited amount of £1.50 tickets available on 2 Virgin services per day Mon-Thr, (although they are usually bookable a week before!). Look for megabus.

12:07 London - Liverpool 14:15 (this train has a £9 ticket on for this Tuesday still!)
21:07 London - Liverpool 23:29 (again £9 tickets available for next week, nearly always cheap seats available)

13:48 Liverpool - London 15:56 (tickets are harder to find for this train and is the only "megatrain" back South)

Tickets start from £1 with a 50p booking fee.

Also the Super Off Peak Day Travelcard from Liverpool available on a Saturday priced at £34.60.

 

[All Line Rover]

Hello everyone,

I've been looking around for a while but this is my first time posting.

From September I'm going to have to be making fairly regular trips up to Liverpool, and have been trying to work out the cheapest way to do it.

The first option seemed to be the VT service from Euston to Lime Street in just over 2hrs, but the lack of advance tickets at 1 week in advance and the average cost (with a 16-25 railcard) being around £40 (or £46.20 for an off-peak return) has made me look elsewhere.

Virgin has a policy of allowing Off-Peak tickets on Peak trains when accompanied by a Railcard - in this case a 16-25 Railcard. £46.20 is still excellent value for a fully flexible Virgin ticket - without the Railcard it would cost a staggering £261!

The Peak/Off-Peak restrictions can be found here - http://bitURL.net/vtrestrictions - but as I said, you can completely ignore them when you have a Railcard.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also, just checked on LM mixing deck and the 50% offer they have on the London - Birmingham route till 3rd July is also on the London - Liverpool ticket, so Super Off Peak return (with a railcard) is only £8.10! Bargain.

That's clearly a mistake on LM's part, but we'll keep quiet about that!

Coming from Crewe, I would never use the OPR ticket myself no matter how cheap it is, because arriving into London at 13:49 and leaving at 18:46 is pathetic!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

:roll: Agree with All Line Rover. Being able to travel on any London -> Liverpool train with a railcard-discounted off peak return ticket for just £46.20 (there and back) is an absolute snip compared with the £261 cost for anyone travelling without a railcard. Some folk don't recognise a bargain when they see one!

 

[SickyNicky]

Virgin has a policy of allowing Off-Peak tickets on Peak trains when accompanied by a Railcard

As a matter of interest, do you have the link to their website where it confirms this? I couldn't find it on a quick browse.

 

[SS4]

As a matter of interest, do you have the link to their website where it confirms this? I couldn't find it on a quick browse.

I can't find it either, I'll email them about it now

 

[Statto]

Out of interest without starting another thread, is the Liverpool-London SVR ticket valid via Warrington or Manchester as i might to go to London towards the end of August?

 

[All Line Rover]

As a matter of interest, do you have the link to their website where it confirms this? I couldn't find it on a quick browse.

Nothing is mentioned about it on their website, but I quote from Avantix:
2) Holders of Off-Peak ticket
types SVS/SVR, which are
discounted using 16-25, Senior
, Disabled Persons, HM Forces
and Family & Friends Railcards
, New Deal Photocards and
Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards,
may use ANY Virgin_train
service, provided that the
route on the ticket is not
"Virgin Trains Only" and the
journey being made is priced
by Virgin Trains. If the
journey is not priced by
Virgin Trains then the stated
Off-Peak restictions apply

 

[SickyNicky]

Out of interest without starting another thread, is the Liverpool-London SVR ticket valid via Warrington or Manchester as i might to go to London towards the end of August?

Yes. It's valid on maps NL+MA which permits you to go via both Warrington AND Manchester

 

[RailwayDan]

Thanks for your fast replies

What a brilliant piece of info knowing that Off-Peak is valid at any time. Looking at that LM OPR ticket, it's only valid on a couple of trains and like tony_mac said, could get stuck for quite a while.

I've come foul of the afternoon peak before when it was introduced on the EMT Meridian line, so being able to travel from Euston then is very handy. I've also seen the rush on the 1900 to Manchester Piccadilly from there, someone help those without reservations...

£23 each way to able to choose any train is great value, so will defiantly be doing that. It's useful knowing that there's another way of doing it though.

 

[First class]

Thanks for your fast replies

What a brilliant piece of info knowing that Off-Peak is valid at any time. Looking at that LM OPR ticket, it's only valid on a couple of trains and like tony_mac said, could get stuck for quite a while.

I've come foul of the afternoon peak before when it was introduced on the EMT Meridian line, so being able to travel from Euston then is very handy. I've also seen the rush on the 1900 to Manchester Piccadilly from there, someone help those without reservations...

£23 each way to able to choose any train is great value, so will defiantly be doing that. It's useful knowing that there's another way of doing it though.

Careful now, £46 return, but £45 single!!

 

[island]

What a brilliant piece of info knowing that Off-Peak is valid at any time.

Just bear in mind that the permission applies only to:

• Tickets that are priced by Virgin Trains
• Travel on Virgin Trains
• Tickets that are not routed VIRGIN TRNS ONLY
• Off-Peak Return (SVR) and Off-Peak Single (SVS) tickets (not SVH)
• Tickets sold with a YNG/SRN/HMF/FAM/NDC/IRD discount

If all the above conditions are fulfilled, then an off-peak ticket may be used for travel during the times that are usually restricted.

 

[All Line Rover]

Just bear in mind that the permission applies only to:

• Tickets that are priced by Virgin Trains
• Travel on Virgin Trains
• Tickets that are not routed VIRGIN TRNS ONLY
• Off-Peak Return (SVR) and Off-Peak Single (SVS) tickets (not SVH)
• Tickets sold with a YNG/SRN/HMF/FAM/NDC/IRD discount

If all the above conditions are fulfilled, then an off-peak ticket may be used for travel during the times that are usually restricted.

Or to put it simply, a London to Liverpool Off-Peak Return ticket (SVR) when purchased with a 16-25 Railcard (YNG), is valid on all Virgin trains services between London and Liverpool.

The ticket is priced by Virgin (VWC) and the return journey must be made within 1 calendar month.

 

[DiscoStu]

What a shambles this country's ticketing system is.

Super saver.

Super savey saver.

Super-duper savey saver.

Off-peak Super-duper savey saver (but not on Tuesdays in a leap year in the first half of this century ... does not apply to armed forces personnel, aged over 31 and a half)

Restrictions for this.

No restrictions for that.

No restrictions for this but we don't tell anybody, so you think there are restrictions.

etc etc,.

It's a complete joke :roll:

 

[island]

No, it's

 

[yorkie]

...The ticket is priced by Virgin (VWC) ....

This 'requirement' is (or was, last time I checked) not in the public domain, so not enforceable. Also VT TM's tended to announce (when I got VT; I rarely do now!) that Off Peak tickets with a Railcard are valid, they never specified "priced by Virgin trains", and there is no practicable/simple method for a customer to find out who prices their ticket. The only way we know about this silly 'rule' is that we have seen it in Avantix Traveller!

 

[All Line Rover]

This 'requirement' is (or was, last time I checked) not in the public domain, so not enforceable. Also VT TM's tended to announce (when I got VT; I rarely do now!) that Off Peak tickets with a Railcard are valid, they never specified "priced by Virgin trains", and there is no practicable/simple method for a customer to find out who prices their ticket. The only way we know about this silly 'rule' is that we have seen it in Avantix Traveller!

I never knew about it myself, but then again, most TM's don't know about it either!

The only two main rules are that you have a Railcard and are travelling on a Virgin train (for example, when travelling to Liverpool you can't take a VT train to Crewe and then a peak LM train to Liverpool).

 

[faddy]

In terms of Virgin Trains - London-Liverpool it is cheaper to buy a Kensington Olympia - Liverpool ticket for £45.20 routed +ANY PERMITTED. This also includes a free return transfer on London Underground. So potentially saving you a few quid there.

Does this come with the plus/dagger/maltese cross printed on it? Routes given by NRE from Liverpool to Kensington Olympia appear to all use National Rail services throughout.

If it does have the plus on it, could one (despite cross London travel being supposed to be "related" to the NR journey) in practice use it for travel between Euston and any of the further flung interchange stations, eg Tottenham Hale, Lewisham DLR?

 

[yorkie]

Does this come with the plus/dagger/maltese cross printed on it? Routes given by NRE from Liverpool to Kensington Olympia appear to all use National Rail services throughout.

Yes, it does.

If it does have the plus on it, could one (despite cross London travel being supposed to be "related" to the NR journey) in practice use it for travel between Euston and any of the further flung interchange stations, eg Tottenham Hale, Lewisham DLR?

Are either of these stations on a permitted route? I would say it is highly unlikely, so I strongly advise against that.

Tottenham Hale would be fine on a Kensington Olympia to Glasgow ticket, but I doubt it's valid on a Kensington Olympia to Liverpool ticket. The RG would need to be consulted for a definitive answer, though.

 

[faddy]

Tottenham Hale would be fine on a Kensington Olympia to Glasgow ticket, but I doubt it's valid on a Kensington Olympia to Liverpool ticket. The RG would need to be consulted for a definitive answer, though.

I'd asked whether such a journey could be made "in practice", having read that cross-London tickets operate the gates at any interchange station. Presumably such a plan would fail if encountering a LU/DLR inspector who understood the Routeing Guide. Or I suppose one who knew where Kensington is

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Back to catering, London Midland are getting rid of catering services across it's network as of late August