London Leeds MML Service

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Simming

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Are there others who belive that the SRA not allowing MML to run London Leeds Services during the day was a bit unfair?
 
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Max

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Well, if MML wanted to run these services, it does seem a little unfair.

But to be perfectly honest, GNER do run an hourly service to London already, and it takes far less time than via Nottingham, Leicester etc.
Having been to Leeds, I also have to say that the platforms were constantly busy, and so maybe there wasn't the platform and line capacity.
 

Nick

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I can see why the SRA have rejected this plan, but I do beleive they gave MML too false hope, alas they we're too keen to jump onto it perhaps?

Perhaps as the Meridians arrived and MML added request for those paths to be accepted did the SRA remember the ECML franchise and GNER. Under the majority of plans for the ECML most services would be improved specifically as we have seen London to Leeds which will become half hourly. MML have never been too much care for the SRA, just sitting there in the background until the WCML was thrown into tatters where hope and investment came ever so briefly to the humble line.

But are we not having consequences of backing the wrong line back in the 60's for the problems of our current rail network?
 

yorkie

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AIUI, the SRA asked MML to provide this service, the SRA ordered the trains, and then changed their mind. The SRA have been unable to come up with an alternative use for them.

MML are allowed to run this service if they funded it themselves. However it is believed that it would not be profitable without subsidy so MML are not prepared to do that.

It's not really much to do with MML. The SRA requested it, and then changed their minds.

This is similar to the Desiros that were ordered for SWT growth, but then the SRA realised that the new trains and power upgrade cost so much that there was no money left for additional services and the infrastructure probably wont allow it anyway.

The difference is that the SRA has found an alternative use for the Desiros on the West Coast Main Line.
 

bunnahabhain

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The simple fact is that the Trains would have been popular as they would have been an extension of the Sheffield services, which means that they cater for loads of different markets, firstly the current London - Sheffield service, but also stealing some Virgin Passengers from the Voyagers on Derby-Chesterfield-Sheffield-Wakefield-Leeds trains.

It would have actually been fairly profitable, well, more profitable than paying leasing costs for trains sitting around doing bugger all.

The official reason is that the line London-Bedford is overcrowded, although the fact that there would be no extra trains running kinda makes that sound silly dont it ;) .

My guess is that the SRA saw GNER's bid and thaught "Wow, loads of premium is gonna come our way, and it relys on GNER getting more custom Leeds-London, but if MML run Leeds-London too then the market will shink and they wont be paying as much".

So instead of improved connections to Leeds from the East Midlands, we get left with nothing, whilst GNER continue ahead with their crazy Electric Horseshoe, which will be used by mostly HST's, what a great plan :roll:
 

yorkie

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It should have nothing to do with GNER's Leeds-London service as no-one would use MML the whole way.

Passengers for intermediate stations would use it though.
 

bunnahabhain

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yorkie said:
It should have nothing to do with GNER's Leeds-London service as no-one would use MML the whole way.

Passengers for intermediate stations would use it though.

They would have done, and they already do use MML north of Sheffield, people said the same about the Matlock, Barnsley, York and Scarborough services any they are pretty popular.
 

Simming

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Jamie C. Steel said:
They would have done, and they already do use MML north of Sheffield, people said the same about the Matlock...

MML run to Matlock :shock:

When do they run?
 

bunnahabhain

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They dont run anymore, they ran when MML had the Turbostars.

Monday - Friday
05:57 Derby - Matlock
06:38 Matlock - Derby (used to run direct to London after joining the 07:00 Burton - London, but only provided a connection during the Introduction of 222's)
18:30 London - Matlock/Burton

Saturday
07:00 Derby - Matlock
07:43 Matlock - Derby
09:48 Derby - Matlock
10:23 Matlock - Derby
14:49 Derby - Matlock (ironically it departed 1 min before a 170 from London arrived)
15:45 Matlock - Derby

Sunday
14:32 Derby - Matlock
15:19 Matlock - Derby

It's always handy keeping old timetables :lol:
 

Nick

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Jamie C. Steel said:
yorkie said:
It should have nothing to do with GNER's Leeds-London service as no-one would use MML the whole way.

Passengers for intermediate stations would use it though.

They would have done, and they already do use MML north of Sheffield, people said the same about the Matlock, Barnsley, York and Scarborough services any they are pretty popular.

But these cities don't have over 700,000 inhabitants who are used to travelling a certain route at a cheap cost and frequent. Kinda, kills MML.
 

bunnahabhain

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The 06:14, 07:26 and 08:28 HST's from Leeds to St. Pancras are always packed full before they get to Derby, there isnt a seat available on them.

Same as on the 16:55, 17:45, 18:25 and 19:25 HST's from St. Pancras to Leeds are always at least 90% full past Derby.

I dunno what it's like North of Sheffield, but a good 40% of the people on those trains are likely to be travelling to Leeds, and that's just 3 Southbound and 4 Northbound trains a day!
 
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