London Midland Closures Commence

[RPM]

Today was the last day of operation for Cheddington booking office. After 175 years the station is now officially unstaffed. Not a popular move in the locale and not a move in the right direction IMO.

Some last day pictures here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8596872261/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8597978294/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8596877255/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8596879865/

Presubmably Lye, Witton and Wythall have also bitten the dust today.

 

[Ferret]

A very backwards step I'm afraid. Just what are the Management of this company thinking?! From where I'm sitting, it's lose money to save a few quid. Which of course makes perfect sense.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Argh, I wanted to photo each of the four closures before they occurred, but it had all gone quiet so I thought I had more time, as stupidly I expected LM to actually announce the dates to the wider wrold :roll: As far a I can see, LM haven't actually said anything on their website about it, I presume there was some local media / posters they used at stations?

It is a very sad day, I'll agree, however I think these will be the four that will set the ball rolling nationwide. The only consolation I can draw from it is that the likes of Bescot Stadium and Jewelry Quarter survived, there were nine they wanted to close I think.

I wonder how commuters will feel on Tuesday morning when it strikes them that they no longer have access to a proper enclosed waiting room, or toilets etc.

 

[Greeby]

A very backwards step I'm afraid. Just what are the Management of this company thinking?! From where I'm sitting, it's lose money to save a few quid. Which of course makes perfect sense.

In the so-called minds of LM management, us here on the Northampton Line are just a far-away branch line, we don't matter.

 

[oversteer]

So I guess they are now expected to buy tickets at Euston, a thoroughly miserable experience, given the huge queues at all times and inability for LM to add more sales counters or TVMs.

Didn't realise they had toilets and a waiting room though! Don't get either of those at Tring.

 

[Cab2Cab]

I was at Wellington station last week to go in to Shrewsbury. On arrival the ticket office was shut (is this now closed or part time?), anyway found the ticket machine (back over the bridge again!) there was a lady there trying to use the ticket machine for a reservation she had pre-booked (something along those lines) she took about 5 mins to get the tickets out for just 1 ticket machine on the station.

Not everybody is going to turn up extra early to just to get a ticket, then you read things on the forum you should of bought a ticket at your origin otherwise you get penalized.

This is not good customer service closing the ticket offices, this seems to be a national thing, it's just not about selling tickets it's help and advice especially the older one's in life who are not computer/screen literate.

 

[Sleepy]

NO ! buy them off the guard (commission) - great way to p*ss off any TOC !!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There is a TVM at Cheddington outside of the now disused booking office IIRC, so the need for queuing at Euston should be negated in the majority of cases. However, it will be interesting to see how many commuters actually know it exists, if they've been using the booking office for the last x number of years!

Out of interest, does anyone know where we can expect the next batch of proposed closures / reduced hours to be on our network? Also, what will happen to the staff at the closed offices? Are they being transferred to larger stations nearby or are they assuming other roles within the company? If so, where on earth is the saving for LM then, surely they still have some sort of maintenance that will be required on the unused buildings which will still incur some cost?

 

[Zoidberg]

I was at Wellington station last week to go in to Shrewsbury. On arrival the ticket office was shut (is this now closed or part time?), ...

It's open 0700-1300 Mon-Sat.

The TVM is convenient for folk arriving from the car park, which accesses onto the Birmingham bound platform, not so much if arriving on the Shrewsbury bound platform, after having come from the Bus Station, for example.

Just checked at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/WLN/details.html to make sure nothing had changed snce I last knew of the opening times.

Opening hours
Monday - Friday 07:00 - 13:00
Saturday 07:00 - 13:00
Sunday Closed

 

[AlexS]

Wellington was one of the few to have it's hours actually extended I believe?

It's a shame but I have to say I was surprised Cheddington survived as long as it did - most comparable sized stations in terms of patronage were de-staffed decades ago.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Wasn't it only Tring and Hemel Hempstead that saw any overall extention of hours? That said though there may be some that were opened to later in the day but this overall increase was negated by the much latered opening hours.

From research (and years of such has told me it isn't easy to find!) I think there have been two broad waves of clsoures - the 1960s, when a lot of offices closed with the 'Beeching effect' and roughly 1987-1994, when a lot around the Southern region, major cities and the Scottish Highlands went. Of course some individual lines became unstaffed with PayTrain, for example the Penistone line's booking offices went in the early 1970s (I think!).

 

[Requeststop]

I was at Wellington station last week to go in to Shrewsbury. On arrival the ticket office was shut (is this now closed or part time?), anyway found the ticket machine (back over the bridge again!) there was a lady there trying to use the ticket machine for a reservation she had pre-booked (something along those lines) she took about 5 mins to get the tickets out for just 1 ticket machine on the station.

Not everybody is going to turn up extra early to just to get a ticket, then you read things on the forum you should of bought a ticket at your origin otherwise you get penalized.

This is not good customer service closing the ticket offices, this seems to be a national thing, it's just not about selling tickets it's help and advice especially the older one's in life who are not computer/screen literate.

Beware of TOC's studying Ryanair's ticketing techniques, and adopting Ryanair's attitudes. It may well soon come to that reality.

 

[RPI]

NO ! buy them off the guard (commission) - great way to p*ss off any TOC !!

Until you get PF'd! Wellington is a PF station if travelling with LM
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
LM just seem to be appalling, problem is, even if they only exist for the life of this franchise, the changes they have implemented are there for good, major backwards step.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Are they for good though? Plenty of stations have been restaffed following previous destaffing over the years. However it does seem to be a lot of faff and would agree that any of the four closed here are very unlikely to return.

 

[asylumxl]

I don't think the DfT could care less about the effect closures will have on the ground. All they're fussed about is the TOCs paying them the premiums they desire.

 

[DarloRich]

@RPI - it will be interesting to see how the gate staff at Euston treat those without tickets arriving from Cheddington. If my experience is anything to go by the answer will be not well.

I often arrive there ticket less having boarded at Fenny Stratford and have often been treated like a fare evader, even though there are no facilities to purchase tickets until that point. I had to call a supervisor on one bright spark who tried to write me up for ticket less travel. It took his boss to explain to him that:

1) Yes - Fenny Stratford was a real station
2) Yes - it was an LM station
3) No - there were no barriers or ticket offices therefore the passenger wont have a ticket if the guard didn't appear
4) Yes - the customer should be sold the ticket requested including the gold card discount
5) No - he isn't a fare dodger!

 

[RPI]

@RPI - it will be interesting to see how the gate staff at Euston treat those without tickets arriving from Cheddington. If my experience is anything to go by the answer will be not well.

I often arrive there ticket less having boarded at Fenny Stratford and have often been treated like a fare evader, even though there are no facilities to purchase tickets until that point. I had to call a supervisor on one bright spark who tried to write me up for ticket less travel. It took his boss to explain to him that:

1) Yes - Fenny Stratford was a real station
2) Yes - it was an LM station
3) No - there were no barriers or ticket offices therefore the passenger wont have a ticket if the guard didn't appear
4) Yes - the customer should be sold the ticket requested including the gold card discount
5) No - he isn't a fare dodger!

Agreed re Fenny Stratford but doesn't Cheddington have a TVM?

 

[DarloRich]

Agreed re Fenny Stratford but doesn't Cheddington have a TVM?

i didn't know that! I thought it was just an un staffed station now.

EDIT - there would have to be one or it would invalidate the entire PF zone!

 

[Zoidberg]

Agreed re Fenny Stratford but doesn't Cheddington have a TVM?

i didn't know that! I thought it was just an un staffed station now.

EDIT - there would have to be one or it would invalidate the entire PF zone!

According to the National Rail Enquiries website there is a TVM

From http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/CED/details.html

Ticket Office - No

Ticket machines - Yes

Accessible ticket machines - There are accessible ticket machines at this station

Accessible ticket machines note - A Ticket Vending Machine is located in the Booking Hall entrance.

Collection of pre-purchased tickets - Yes, from ticket machine

EDIT: Just noticed DarloRich's edit

 

[RPI]

EDIT - there would have to be one or it would invalidate the entire PF zone!

How would it invalidate the entire PF zone??

 

[DarloRich]

How would it invalidate the entire PF zone??

All of the LM system on the WCML is a PF zone so anyone caught without a ticket, and possessing half a brain, would just say they got on at Chedders and avoid any problems. It would, in essence, create a weak link in the chain.

I think the only none pf bits around here are the Marston Vale and Abbey lines and few people, sadly, use them.

 

[RPM]

According to the National Rail Enquiries website there is a TVM

There is a TVM but it is not properly set up and will thus cause problems.
It switches over to off-peak mode too early so it sells cheap day tickets for the final peak train of the morning (09.04). A similar peak/off-peak switchover error affects the car parking tickets too.
Also, despite the fact the first off-peak train is 10.04 the machine won't allow people to by tickets with a Network Card until 10.00 so they have a choice between overpaying or risking missing the train and wasting a whole hour of their life (it is quite a long walk from the TVM to the up platform).
Also it doesn't take cash. It is designed to accept it but the facility was removed following an robbery/attack on the machine a few years ago.
Finally, like most TVMs it can't sell GroupSave & Super Off-Peak, nor will it accept Rail Travel Vouchers etc.
Hardly an adequate replacement for the ticket office.
All of the above was reported to LM managers on numerous occasions before the ticket office closed but nothing has been done.

 

[Zoidberg]

There is a TVM but it is not properly set up and will thus cause problems.

...

All of the above was reported to LM managers on numerous occasions before the ticket office closed but nothing has been done.

Not at all helpful to passengers and interesting to know what passes for LM's view of decent customer service.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Also it doesn't take cash. It is designed to accept it but the facility was removed following an robbery/attack on the machine a few years ago.

So, imagine the following scenario, a passenger arrives at the TVM clutching a wad of legal tender intending to buy their ticket, they find they cannot use said legal tender, let us further assume they have no credit/debit card. Presumably any attempt by a Guard or RPO to charge a PF should fall on stoney ground as in essence they alighted at a station where they had no opportunity to purchase a ticket.

 

[DarloRich]

So, imagine the following scenario, a passenger arrives at the TVM clutching a wad of legal tender intending to buy their ticket, they find they cannot use said legal tender, let us further assume they have no credit/debit card. Presumably any attempt by a Guard or RPO to charge a PF should fall on stoney ground as in essence they alighted at a station where they had no opportunity to purchase a ticket.

exactly - it is just a bit if a fart on at Euston getting them to accept that. In fact I have never known a guard on the train have the slightest problem issuing tickets, unlike the barrier staff.

 

[RPM]

LM guards on the West Coast are generally not Penalty Fare trained anyway so I don't envisage a problem on-train. But as has been already said, it is the gates at Euston where the problems will occur. It's not that the passengers from CED are likeley to be prosecuted or penalty fared. What I don't like is the inconvenience and indigity of being challenged and questioned at Euston: the assumption that they are on the fiddle unless they can prove or plead otherwise. It's embarassing and time-consuming and it has all been caused by LM in the first place by their shameless and baffling* cost-cutting exercise.

* Cheddington actually covered it's staffing costs.