London Midlands Prosecution Letter, young person card

[colacat4]

Hi everyone,

I am desperately in need of help on seeking advice on a regrettable situation involving my foolish act which led to a prosecution letter from London Midland. I'll be very grateful if you could provide me with any.

1. The content of the letter is as following:
**************************************
Dear Ms. ***,

On ** ** 2013, a person giving the above name and address was questioned by a member of staff with regard to an alleged incident on London Midland Railway. This matter has been provisionally authorized for prosecution.

Before I proceed further, I invite you to respond by completing in full the bottom section of this letter, making any comments about the incident on the reverse, and send it to the above address within seven days.

Failure to respond will lead to the matter being progressed without further notification.
**************************************
2. The incident
I am a full time oversea postgraduate student(elder than 25) who's been in Uk for less than a year. I couldn't find my Young person card the morning (I lose things all the time and always sloppy) I was about to go to another city with my friend, I've already bought the tickets online and had them printed out the day before. So I foolishly brought my housemate's YPcard with me and rushed to a station near our house and ride to New Street Station. I need to transfer at Birmingham Moor street so I had to go out the new street station. That was where I was asked to present my ticket. I was pulled over by an officer and asked to present my card. I was kind of not polite to this officer since he had stopped me and checked tickets and YP card every time when I passed him while he let all the westerns away. So I asked him "Why" and he said "because I say so". I probably infuriated him by that. But this time I was using my flatmate's railcard. The officer found out about it and started to write about the event. During that, he collected my add/phone information and told me if I lied he'll call the police and give me a criminal record. And I answered all his questions. He lectured me seriously. And then he asked me to sign the statement. He confiscated my ticket and my friend's rail card. I was really nervous and anxious and deeply shamed of myself, so I suppose I was not entirely clear about what he wrote. (I understand most of the statement and it was a report of this event. )

I did plan to pay extra to convert my ticket to a full price one after I got on board since I felt guilty holding someone else's railcard. I suppose after a chaotic morning at home I just didn't wanna miss the train again and skip the trouble temporarily. So I took a dangerous and shameful way sort of subconsciously at the moment. I always consider myself as one of the good, law-abiding and helpful people and that evil subconscious behaviour shocked myself as well.

My dream is to be an academia so I really cannot afford to have a criminal record which will directly fail my degree. I suppose they may be tired of hearing people claiming it's the first time that I do so, but I really buy tickets all the time. I could provide them with many tickets that haven't been thrown in the ticket checking machine. I have already bought a new YP card since I lost mine and couldn't get a replacement (I was told that no replacement can be done for YP card) and I paid my housemate the railcard money to buy a new one.

3. My questions
(1) What will happen to my housemate? I really do not want to cause her trouble again.
(2) What will happen? How can I avoid having a criminal record? (Writing an apology letter? do I need to send them the tickets I've got? How to request a settle out of court? I'm willing to pay penalty they request )
(2) Could the railway company check that on the event day my old railcard still had about 3 months time?
(3) Could I go to asked the officer that reported me and ask him a copy of the statement he wrote, so that I could use dictionary to make sure that I understand all his handwriting and the report.

Thank you very much for all people that help me. I am really really sorry to bring the shame.

Francine

 

[BestWestern]

Hello.

Sorry to hear of your situation, sadly a typical example of how something which might seem a little trivial can cause big problems later on. You will hear from London Midland in due course about what will happen next, other posters here will give you some good advice soon. Regarding your housemate, I would imagine that he/she will be absolutely fine as long as you picked it up without their consent, i.e. they didn't know that you had it. Perhaps they might have left it on a table or a shelf somewhere and you happened to see it while looking for your own? Were you asked about this at the time? Think very hard though and try to remember what you said, as you don't want to change your version of events after the initial interview. This will only make you look even more dishonest.

Do keep us updated, this is a different angle to the usual railcard threads.

 

[Squaddie]

I was pulled over by an officer and asked to present my card. I was kind of not polite to this officer since he had stopped me and checked tickets and YP card every time when I passed him while he let all the westerns away.

When you give your version of events I suggest you do not repeat this implied accusation of racism. It will not help your case.

What will happen to my housemate? I really do not want to cause her trouble again.

In the worst-case scenario, London Midland could choose to take action against her too as being complicit in the fare evasion unless she reports the theft of her railcard.

 

[Flamingo]

I was pulled over by an officer and asked to present my card. I was kind of not polite to this officer since he had stopped me and checked tickets and YP card every time when I passed him while he let all the westerns away. So I asked him "Why" and he said "because I say so". I probably infuriated him by that. But this time I was using my flatmate's railcard.

Funnily enough, as you knew you had the wrong railcard, your body language probably gave you away. We can smell the fear! (seriously).

 

[reb0118]

Funnily enough, as you knew you had the wrong railcard, your body language probably gave you away. We can smell the fear! (seriously).

This is so true. My ex* travelled for almost a year with an expired TOCNE card without realising it (I don't know why they don't change the colour every year like the safeguarded boxes) it was only when I found the new card still in the envelope & texted her to let her know that she got rumbled - cue me paying almost £40 for a SILK transaction to get her from Stansted to London. If I hadn't let her know the score I feel she would have been able to buy her ticket without issue (ignorance is bliss) but because she knew it would have been written all over her face that something was amiss.

 

[Temple Meads]

Funnily enough, as you knew you had the wrong railcard, your body language probably gave you away. We can smell the fear! (seriously).

Indeed that's probably why I was so often asked my date of birth when still travelling on child tickets, I get seriously stressed about confrontational situations, and despite the fact my ticket was perfectly valid, I got really worried about being asked. (In hindsight it was such a silly thing to get worked up about, and it stopped me making the most of the cheaper fares)

 

[185]

Funnily enough, as you knew you had the wrong railcard, your body language probably gave you away. We can smell the fear! (seriously).

That is exactly what I was thinking before you posted that

 

[island]

Back to the original question. As you chose to travel without a valid ticket (a Railcard in your name being required for your ticket to be considered valid), you have, in my opinion, travelled without paying your fare and with the intent to avoid payment thereof.

Whether you have committed theft of the other Railcard is unclear to me, as theft requires an intent to permanently deprive someone of the item. What you did was more akin to borrowing. However, nothing is likely to turn on this point.

I am most surprised that you were stopped leaving New Street station as the gateline attendants there tend to be rather inattentive. Unless... you didn't decide you'd go out via the lift to avoid them, did you?

Regarding some of the points you have made: Do not assume that having a criminal record (if you end up with one) will "directly fail" your degree. Due to a recent legal case, criminal records are only supposed to be disclosed if they are deemed to be material to the person requesting disclosure.

I suggest not pursuing your point about "all the westerns" being let through as that really isn't likely to get very far.

If you had wanted to adjust your ticket to a full fare ticket (to the extent that is possible, which is under debate) you would have needed to do this before boarding if ticket facilities were available, and would have been strongly advised to actively find the guard on your train if they were not. From your post it does not seem to me that you were making very strenuous endeavours to regularise your situation.

To your questions:

1. What happens to your housemate depends on what London Midland decides to do. I personally expect the most likely options are that nothing happens or that she receives a warning letter asking her to take more care of her Railcard. I would find it very hard to conceive of her being prosecuted.

2. With the completed form you send to London Midland, you should send a cover letter stating how sorry you are that this incident occurred, and offering to pay for the avoided fare (i.e. the full single fare from wherever you started to Birmingham Stations, if not your final destination) plus whatever administration costs London Midland has incurred to date if they would agree not to take the matter further. Opinions vary as to whether you should mention a figure in your letter as they may come back lower. The usual sums we have seen requested in respect of administrative fees early in the process are in the region of £80.

2. (you wrote 2 twice ) It probably can, but it won't. You have to carry the Railcard — your Railcard — on you when you travel.

3. You can ask, but as far as I know they are only required to give it to you if they take you to court, which you are trying to avoid.

[Side note 1: You are normally entitled to one replacement Railcard during the year in the event your Railcard is lost, stolen, or damaged. On presentation of the receipt from when you purchased it, a fee of £10, proof of ID (if requested) and a passport-sized photo (if applicable), any station issuing that type of Railcard should issue a replacement. No fee is applicable to replace a stolen Railcard on production of a police report with crime reference number, nor to replace a faded Railcard.]

[Side note 2: The offence of taking without owner's consent ("TWOCking") was conceived with relation to motor vehicles due to difficulties in certain circumstances proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the person who took the vehicle in fact intended to deprive the owner permanently of it.]

 

[bb21]

(I lose things all the time and always sloppy)

May I suggest that you try and seek some help to address this issue. You may have some issues with personal organisation and that could cause undesired effects on your studies, as well as in your personal life. Postgraduate life can be stressful and at times seemingly chaotic, but effective organisation can help you a long way in that direction. There are people out there who can help you address these issues so don't be afraid to speak to some professionals - supervisor, doctor, student mental wellbeing officer, etc. (I've been there before and it is not easy. Trust me.)

I was kind of not polite to this officer since he had stopped me and checked tickets and YP card every time when I passed him while he let all the westerns away. So I asked him "Why" and he said "because I say so". I probably infuriated him by that.

I agree that it is not a relevant factor in your case, and that it is likely that your body language probably gave the game away anyway.

so I suppose I was not entirely clear about what he wrote. (I understand most of the statement and it was a report of this event. )

I'm not sure about signing anything you don't understand. I am not suggesting that the RPI was lying in his statement, however it could make it more difficult for you to dispute something you have already signed and confirmed as correct later on should you wish to do so.

I did plan to pay extra to convert my ticket to a full price one after I got on board since I felt guilty holding someone else's railcard. I suppose after a chaotic morning at home I just didn't wanna miss the train again and skip the trouble temporarily. So I took a dangerous and shameful way sort of subconsciously at the moment. I always consider myself as one of the good, law-abiding and helpful people and that evil subconscious behaviour shocked myself as well.

Bad decision, unfortunately. Given that New Street is a major station with a massive ticket office, questions would be asked by the train company as to why you made no attempt to resolve the matter at the ticket office, if it really was your intention to pay the extra amount.

My dream is to be an academia so I really cannot afford to have a criminal record which will directly fail my degree.

Having a criminal record will not automatically bar you from graduating, nor a career in academia.

I have already bought a new YP card since I lost mine and couldn't get a replacement (I was told that no replacement can be done for YP card) and I paid my housemate the railcard money to buy a new one.

You may have a case for complaint if you wish, depending on your circumstances. A replacement for lost Railcard is certainly possible. (See this.)

(2) What will happen? How can I avoid having a criminal record? (Writing an apology letter? do I need to send them the tickets I've got? How to request a settle out of court? I'm willing to pay penalty they request )

You can ask them to settle out of court, although they are not obliged to accept it.

In fact by using someone else's Railcard, you have made the situation much worse for yourself. You have potentially provided them with the proof that they needed to establish intent to avoid paying the correct fare, hence conviction under the more serious Regulation of Railways Act. By intent, I don't mean what you intended to do, but how your actions can be inferred by the court, should it get that far, through interpretation of your actions. I struggle to think why someone would otherwise want to use another person's Railcard other than trying to avoid paying the correct fare.

Sending them past tickets probably won't do you any harm, however they probably won't help your case anyway at this stage.

(2) Could the railway company check that on the event day my old railcard still had about 3 months time?

There is no live database so no, there is no easy way to check. There may be a record kept somewhere.

This is one of the most common misconceptions people have. When you buy a season ticket, your details are entered directly into the computer and the clerk would do it right in front of you. When you apply for a Railcard, this does not happen so I fail to see why so many people assume that the details would be electronically held in a live database somewhere. (There may be a case for Railcards purchased online, I acknowledge this.)

Thank you very much for all people that help me. I am really really sorry to bring the shame.

What's done is done. There is no point stressing yourself out about it. (I know it is easier said than done.)

 

[RPI]

What shocks me most about this post is that one of the barrier staff at New St actually looked at a ticket properly, usually they just sit there and let anything through, back to the thread though, by using someone else's railcard you haven't done yourself any favours, you'd have been better being stopped with no railcard at all, best is to apologise and offer to pay any costs before it goes to court.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Can't you say you must have picked up the wrong railcard by mistake at home and didn't check it was the right one

As you say you have a valid card it will be on the system somewhere, so you might get away with slapped wrists, but that depends on what you told the guard on the day

 

[Deerfold]

The OP doesn't seem to have been about for nearly 3 weeks - not sure there's much point adding more advice.