London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Goldfish62]

I'll guess that LNER made their chefs redundant the same as Hull Trains probably made some of their catering crew redundant. LNER first class hot meals can't start again and Hull Trains can't start standard refreshments until staff are hired - which is taking more time than expected.
I may be wrong at that guess though.

That would make sense.

 

[ainsworth74]

Just about acceptable for a 4hr 30minute journey - but they didn't offer main food after initial run, was expecting it at Newcastle but they were targeting people who got on only.

As I recall that is the same as pre-pandemic. Food only for those joining unless travelling across Edinburgh. Obviously sometimes more generous crews would offer food again but usually only the one food run if not crossing Edinburgh.

 

[Butts]

As I recall that is the same as pre-pandemic. Food only for those joining unless travelling across Edinburgh. Obviously sometimes more generous crews would offer food again but usually only the one food run if not crossing Edinburgh.

Is this really acceptable if you are paying for a Premium Service ?

It's not as if they are handing out Full Meals but just sandwiches or other similar "fillers". I don't think it's unreasonable to request another such item after a couple of hours.

Should the service be "on demand" ?

 

[Retorus]

Booked my first journey with them for my trip home for Christmas. Went First Class which may or may not have been a mistake going by the food situation, but we'll see!

 

[Scotrail314209]

Booked First Class for December as well, hopefully it’s not the slightly pitiful sounding Deli menu and that some trains at least have another variation on. I’m travelling on a lunchtime train (1300 ex Edinburgh) so hopefully there is some form of substantial meal by then.

 

[Basher]

I'm travelling to London regularly first class, I would say that the food is poor, in terms of choice and quality. I have started to have a meal in Wethspoons in St Pancras before travelling home.

 

[Stormaggeddon]

Booked First Class for December as well, hopefully it’s not the slightly pitiful sounding Deli menu and that some trains at least have another variation on. I’m travelling on a lunchtime train (1300 ex Edinburgh) so hopefully there is some form of substantial meal by then.

Good luck, I haven't had a "substantial meal" on an east coast mainline service since early 2011 due to the constant downgrading of the catering by each operator since then....

 

[Butts]

Good luck, I haven't had a "substantial meal" on an east coast mainline service since early 2011 due to the constant downgrading of the catering by each operator since then....

Why can't both Avanti and Virgin look at what BA provide in Club Europe ?

Returning from Athens this Afternoon I had a sausage and mash with vegetables which while not haute cuisine was certainly edible and acceptable.

They have even smaller Galleys than Trains so why can't they knock out the same sort of food ?

 

[30907]

Why can't both Avanti and Virgin look at what BA provide in Club Europe ?

Returning from Athens this Afternoon I had a sausage and mash with vegetables which while not haute cuisine was certainly edible and acceptable.

They have even smaller Galleys than Trains so why can't they knock out the same sort of food ?

They can, and on LNER I've had decent evening meals pre pandemic, but ATM are choosing not to provide it. And at less of a mark-up than Club Europe appears to be on a random search.

 

[ainsworth74]

They can, and on LNER I've had decent evening meals pre pandemic, but ATM are choosing not to provide it. And at less of a mark-up than Club Europe appears to be on a random search.

Yes I've had some nice meals on LNER and VTEC. I do think East Coast, once they'd settled down after ditching the restaurant and at-seat dining (they had some howlers in the early days, anyone remember the beetroot risotto?), offered a better product overall that those that came after and during VTECs tenure things definitely got more stingy but I've still had plenty of good meals. LNER seemed to actually be starting improve things pre-pandemic and getting closer towards what East Coast had been offering. But it's disappointing that they've taken this long to get back to serving the sorts of things they were pre-pandemic.

They are serving some good stuff (and the harmonisation over the weekend with having alcohol and hot food is an extremely welcome improvement that not even East Coast managed) but still no plates, the glasses are definitely pretty titchy (annoying for wine drinkers I'm sure) and we're not back at a full menu (no proper cooked breakfast, no evening meals, etc) so it is somewhat disappointing that we're still no further forward.

Of course I appreciate that for some nothing is ever good enough because they want booze by the bottle and breakfasts that wouldn't be out of place in the Olympic Village but for me just get back to what East Coast were doing in their pomp before VTEC arrived (and continue the enhanced weekend offer, which I think is the best on the network pre or post pandemic*) and I'd be a very happy camper.


*EMT of course offered full breakfast services on a weekend. But that was only on a handful of trains and only in the morning! Nice if you got it but LNER is better overall as it's on all services across the day.

 

[Butts]

Yes I've had some nice meals on LNER and VTEC. I do think East Coast, once they'd settled down after ditching the restaurant and at-seat dining (they had some howlers in the early days, anyone remember the beetroot risotto?), offered a better product overall that those that came after and during VTECs tenure things definitely got more stingy but I've still had plenty of good meals. LNER seemed to actually be starting improve things pre-pandemic and getting closer towards what East Coast had been offering. But it's disappointing that they've taken this long to get back to serving the sorts of things they were pre-pandemic.

They are serving some good stuff (and the harmonisation over the weekend with having alcohol and hot food is an extremely welcome improvement that not even East Coast managed) but still no plates, the glasses are definitely pretty titchy (annoying for wine drinkers I'm sure) and we're not back at a full menu (no proper cooked breakfast, no evening meals, etc) so it is somewhat disappointing that we're still no further forward.

Of course I appreciate that for some nothing is ever good enough because they want booze by the bottle and breakfasts that wouldn't be out of place in the Olympic Village but for me just get back to what East Coast were doing in their pomp before VTEC arrived (and continue the enhanced weekend offer, which I think is the best on the network pre or post pandemic*) and I'd be a very happy camper.


*EMT of course offered full breakfast services on a weekend. But that was only on a handful of trains and only in the morning! Nice if you got it but LNER is better overall as it's on all services across the day.

I thoroughly endorse the weekend upgrade which is particularly welcome as they have chosen not to introduce anything along the lines of Standard Premium aka AWC to reduce the potential exposure to increased consumption.

They need to get away from the culture of "One" and "Or" within the Menus, this is supposed to be a premium service which should not contain such negative terminology. At Breakfast Time while they are not providing a FE it should be a couple of rolls - one sausage and one bacon would be a good idea.

In the evening no Gin & Tonic or other spirits is a glaring anomaly for a business orientated market.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They need to get away from the culture of "One" and "Or" within the Menus, this is supposed to be a premium service which should not contain such negative terminology. At Breakfast Time while they are not providing a FE it should be a couple of rolls - one sausage and one bacon would be a good idea.

In the evening no Gin & Tonic or other spirits is a glaring anomaly for a business orientated market.

I agree thoroughly, and the patronising and degrading way I’ve seen the staff respond to anyone who wants another roll or something makes me feel physically uncomfortable often. I really expected the hostess to tell the gentleman across from me not to be a “naughty greedy boy” at any minute!

 

[takno]

I agree thoroughly, and the patronising and degrading way I’ve seen the staff respond to anyone who wants another roll or something makes me feel physically uncomfortable often. I really expected the hostess to tell the gentleman across from me not to be a “naughty greedy boy” at any minute!

It's astonishing, and counterproductive. I tend to grab everything that's offered as soon as it's offered and ask for extra, just in case there's a crew change later and the next lot can't be bothered to do a service, or are mean about what they give out. Upshot is that I've had at least as much stuff off them, or maybe more, and I still feel like they don't value or respect me as a company.

I know there is a niche market for people willing to pay to be humiliated, but I suspect the crossover between that and potential first class train travellers may be smaller than LNER seem to think.

 

[Butts]

It's astonishing, and counterproductive. I tend to grab everything that's offered as soon as it's offered and ask for extra, just in case there's a crew change later and the next lot can't be bothered to do a service, or are mean about what they give out. Upshot is that I've had at least as much stuff off them, or maybe more, and I still feel like they don't value or respect me as a company.

I know there is a niche market for people willing to pay to be humiliated, but I suspect the crossover between that and potential first class train travellers may be smaller than LNER seem to think.

Do you think the Company or the individual staff are culpable for the sometimes "Oliver Twist" syndrome experienced onboard ?

 

[takno]

Do you think the Company or the individual staff are culpable for the sometimes "Oliver Twist" syndrome experienced onboard ?

I get the impression that the individual staff may at some point have been rewarded on how little they gave away. At some stage they may even have been trained up in French-waiter style aloofness, possibly by GNER who always struck me as a bit snooty and condescending in general.

Certainly the attitude isn't by any means universal, and I don't get the impression that the present company really want the staff to act in this way. I guess they perhaps just need to start actively rewarding behaviour which results in good feedback.

They will also need to actually gather real feedback, since at the moment responding to their requests for feedback puts you through a 20 minute ordeal which normal people would never subject themselves to. Maybe it's the same subset of people who would pay to be humiliated, and who want to be closely questioned by a market research firm on a series of things they really don't care about and shown pictures of crockery.

 

[Tester]

I get the impression that the individual staff may at some point have been rewarded on how little they gave away. At some stage they may even have been trained up in French-waiter style aloofness, possibly by GNER who always struck me as a bit snooty and condescending in general.

Certainly the attitude isn't by any means universal, and I don't get the impression that the present company really want the staff to act in this way. I guess they perhaps just need to start actively rewarding behaviour which results in good feedback.

They will also need to actually gather real feedback, since at the moment responding to their requests for feedback puts you through a 20 minute ordeal which normal people would never subject themselves to. Maybe it's the same subset of people who would pay to be humiliated, and who want to be closely questioned by a market research firm on a series of things they really don't care about and shown pictures of crockery.

Rather topically I have just this moment been told that I can only have one 150ml can of ginger ale as there are only two for the train.

 

[Deerfold]

I recall my 2330 train home from Kings Cross after my last day at work in 2015 when I'd treated myself to First to get home to Yorkshire. I got a ticket check and then a drinks run - they gave me 4 mini vodkas and cans of coke - I assumed that meant they didn't fancy coming round again (I think there were 3 in my carriage and the service is set down only). It didn't.

 

[thejuggler]

Why can't both Avanti and Virgin look at what BA provide in Club Europe ?

Returning from Athens this Afternoon I had a sausage and mash with vegetables which while not haute cuisine was certainly edible and acceptable.

They have even smaller Galleys than Trains so why can't they knock out the same sort of food ?

'knock out' actually being nothing more than ensuring the food heaters are on once the meals are loaded, then taking a lid off a ready meal.

It can work for trains, but you need the meal supply chain in place, the ovens on the train and most importantly a TOC that wants to do it.

 

[TheBigD]

Currently on a LNER service. The London crew did 4 runs of tea/coffee between London and York, and another run between York and Darlington. Also took bacon roll orders as we're were passing Finsbury Park, along with the offer of an apple.

 

[stevet1]

I'll be travelling on the 10am Kings Cross to Aberdeen in first next week. The food offer sounds rather underwhelming, but am I likely to get offered food twice on a 7hr journey? Debating whether I need to pack a picnic

 

[Big Tim]

I'll be travelling on the 10am Kings Cross to Aberdeen in first next week. The food offer sounds rather underwhelming, but am I likely to get offered food twice on a 7hr journey? Debating whether I need to pack a picnic

I've used this service fairly regularly, boarding at York at 11.55, then departing at Dundee.

London passengers are usually served and finished well before York from what I gather. Food offered to those boarding at York, Darlington and Newcastle only after those stops. Then there is another full round offered to all passengers (from the same menu) north of Edinburgh as far as I've seen. Drinks runs after York, Newcastle and Edinburgh. Possibly one more north of Dundee? So yes - so long as there are no issues you should be offered something to eat on departure, then north of the Forth Bridge.

I've had a few recent experiences of the hot sandwiches being unavailable - either run out, oven failures (one that used to plague the ECML offering regularly in the pre-Azuma days), and a lack of staff to provide the full menu.

I always carry a few extra drinks / snacks when using this particular service. Although I have always been offered something, if there's only a sandwich on offer which isn't to my taste, I will have something I have brought myself instead.

 

[stevet1]

Thanks Tim, very helpful. Sounds like a visit to waitrose at KGX would be prudent

 

[PupCuff]

One of the things on LNER and Avanti that I'll never quite understand is that they seem to treat the first class service as some kind of theatre performance; the first act is soft drinks; the next act is some food; followed by snacks; perhaps followed by alcohol; and then a climax of hot drinks etc. So if you want a brew when you get on at Kings Cross you're practically at Newark before you get it. Contrast that with CrossCountry or EMR, who'll come around and serve you your drink of choice and offer to take a food order, anything they don't have on the first class cart they'll jot down and bring to your seat.

I can sympathise in some respects to the staff in relation to people wanting more sandwiches etc; in one of my many hats on the railway I've done onboard catering and there are trains where you have enough sandwiches delivered to feed a small city and you're throwing extra ones at people, trying to persuade them to take a picnic with them for later, offering to look the other way whilst the management on their way home get a pick, so that you're not going to have to stick them all in a dustbin at the end of the day - and others where you know it'll only take a couple of customers without reservations for you to run out, with the obvious customer service impact. Its arguably better to explain to the customer who wants an additional sandwich that you need to make sure there's sufficient stock for everyone else first than it is for someone to travel first class and not get the full experience.

 

[Deerfold]

I can sympathise in some respects to the staff in relation to people wanting more sandwiches etc; in one of my many hats on the railway I've done onboard catering and there are trains where you have enough sandwiches delivered to feed a small city and you're throwing extra ones at people, trying to persuade them to take a picnic with them for later, offering to look the other way whilst the management on their way home get a pick, so that you're not going to have to stick them all in a dustbin at the end of the day - and others where you know it'll only take a couple of customers without reservations for you to run out, with the obvious customer service impact. Its arguably better to explain to the customer who wants an additional sandwich that you need to make sure there's sufficient stock for everyone else first than it is for someone to travel first class and not get the full experience.

There was the time I was given a bottle of wine just before leaving the LNER train (it might have been long enough ago that it wasn't LNER). Not sure what delivery mix up there had been that day, but I saw 4 being given away as we pulled into Leeds.

 

[takno]

One of the things on LNER and Avanti that I'll never quite understand is that they seem to treat the first class service as some kind of theatre performance; the first act is soft drinks; the next act is some food; followed by snacks; perhaps followed by alcohol; and then a climax of hot drinks etc. So if you want a brew when you get on at Kings Cross you're practically at Newark before you get it. Contrast that with CrossCountry or EMR, who'll come around and serve you your drink of choice and offer to take a food order, anything they don't have on the first class cart they'll jot down and bring to your seat.

I can sympathise in some respects to the staff in relation to people wanting more sandwiches etc; in one of my many hats on the railway I've done onboard catering and there are trains where you have enough sandwiches delivered to feed a small city and you're throwing extra ones at people, trying to persuade them to take a picnic with them for later, offering to look the other way whilst the management on their way home get a pick, so that you're not going to have to stick them all in a dustbin at the end of the day - and others where you know it'll only take a couple of customers without reservations for you to run out, with the obvious customer service impact. Its arguably better to explain to the customer who wants an additional sandwich that you need to make sure there's sufficient stock for everyone else first than it is for someone to travel first class and not get the full experience.

I'm sympathetic to this from the point of view of the staff at the sharp end. It's also worth noting that the staff in the first half of the journey are often a bit more liberal, presumably because they don't have to deal with angry people if the scheduled food doesn't appear at York or wherever. Just seems a shame to constantly be running with such a short level of stock, particularly on the booze where it isn't going to go off if left.

 

[HBP]

There was the time I was given a bottle of wine just before leaving the LNER train (it might have been long enough ago that it wasn't LNER). Not sure what delivery mix up there had been that day, but I saw 4 being given away as we pulled into Leeds.

VTEC was very generous on the booze front. Wines or spirits to take with you was quite common. I’ve not seen the same generosity with LNER.

 

[takno]

VTEC was very generous on the booze front. Wines or spirits to take with you was quite common. I’ve not seen the same generosity with LNER.

I never saw it with VTEC, and haven't really seen much change. Varies a lot between trains though

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

VTEC was very generous on the booze front. Wines or spirits to take with you was quite common. I’ve not seen the same generosity with LNER.

I agree that service was far better under Virgin Trains East Coast. The staff appear to have gone a bit up themselves since the government took over.

 

[westv]

I;m sure the shrinkage of the wine glasses came under VTEC.

 

[ainsworth74]

I;m sure the shrinkage of the wine glasses came under VTEC.

Indeed. East Coast were the best in their final year or so in terms of first class offering (four menu rotations for instance meaning it was unusually to end up with the same menu unless you travelled very frequently). The rot started under VTEC.

Personally I think LNER had arrested it in some areas pre-pandemic but its hard to tell if how it looks long term until they pull their ruddy finger out and bring back the full catering offer. Right now they're comfortably worse. By virtue of persisting with their covid induced service reductions.