London Paddington to Basingstoke direct service

[YSTrains]

I always wonder if they will be a service from Basingstoke to Paddington. The 769s can use its pantograph 24/7. Additional capacity from London would be nice on peak times.

 

[adamedwards]

If the line is electrified, perhaps. The 769s are I believe for the line from Reading to Gatwick?

 

[cactustwirly]

I always wonder if they will be a service from Basingstoke to Paddington. The 769s can use its pantograph 24/7. Additional capacity from London would be nice on peak times.

769s aren't cleared to Paddington, not enough line capacity and no real need...

 

[HST43257]

If you want more London trains go to the station that it’s actually quick to get to in London

 

[Energy]

I'd wait until the GWR 769s are in service before speculating on where they could go.

Given the TfW and Northern 769's lack of reliability, I doubt GWR would want them near London where they could cause lots of disruption till their problems are sorted.

 

[NSE]

Can’t see it happening. Energy is right, they are seemingly troublesome and so the last place you’d want them is blocking up the throat at Paddington. I could see a market for a Basingstoke through to Maidenhead or Slough service but not enough to warrant the path and the hard work to make it happen. Basingstoke to London pax are well served by SWR already and the change at Reading isn’t difficult if someone wanted Paddington specifically.

 

[JonathanH]

I always wonder if they will be a service from Basingstoke to Paddington. The 769s can use its pantograph 24/7. Additional capacity from London would be nice on peak times.

There are so many reasons why this could not happen even if 769s were cleared into Paddington. Among them are:
* insufficient 769s - there are only 19, enough for North Downs, Reading to Basingstoke, Henley and, in the peak, trains to Bourne End.
* platform lengths - the branch platforms on the Basingstoke line can only handle one unit, whereas trains from Paddington need to have more and there is nowhere to split the units
* lack of speed - they can't run at line speed out of Paddington so take up more paths than a 125 mph unit and there isn't capacity for more trains on the relief line with TfL Rail there
* other services have more priority for the capacity from Paddington

What 'additional capacity' at peak times are you thinking off. If it is Paddington to Reading, 769s aren't the answer.

 

[30907]

Once HS2 is open, there might be a case for electrifying Southcote to Basingstoke and portion working with the Newbury line using 387s, thus giving good access to HS2 from the ex LSW lines. But not till then!

 

[Western Lord]

Electrify Reading-Basingstoke-Salisbury at 25kV overhead and run the service to Exeter with bi-modes from Paddington. Locals to Salisbury could be dual voltage emus from Waterloo.

 

[YSTrains]

They can convert more 319s in storage. Furthermore the Bedwyn service is getting withdrawn so that does free up space. Also, has there been any time in the past that GWR operated a a direct service to Basingstoke?

 

[JonathanH]

They can convert more 319s in storage. Furthermore the Bedwyn service is getting withdrawn so that does free up space. Also, has there been any time in the past that GWR operated a a direct service to Basingstoke?

Converting more 319s is unlikely. They aren't the right stock for any future Paddington to anywhere operation.

The Bedwyn service being replaced by a Newbury service so the paths aren't spare.

No direct service from Paddington to Basingstoke has ever been run and probably won't ever be.

 

[cle]

It was discussed as an extension of the famed 12 car express services to Reading which were a PIXC-type path. I don't think they've eventuated. Maybe excitable chat in the short era of the electric spine!

And also as part of WRATH - and potential services from Paddington via Heathrow - and then the slows, which might head on to places like Basingstoke. But Southern access also had Basingstoke via Woking as a possibility. I don't see much of it happening.

 

[JonathanH]

It was discussed as an extension of the famed 12 car express services to Reading which were a PIXC-type path.

Much easier to run those to Didcot though - eg the 1742 / 1842 services which did run for a while.

 

[cle]

Much easier to run those to Didcot though - eg the 1742 / 1842 services which did run for a while.

Yep I think Newbury was also mentioned, for obvious reasons too. Basingstoke's line needs line speed improvements, and longer platforms if interim stations were to be called at. Interestingly, sites do refer Basingstoke-London journeys via Reading - I see 49 min timings (tight change!) right now which is competitive. And without the change and a faster run down, could maybe be 40 mins one day.

Given it's a very different part of London to Waterloo - and would no doubt hit OOC (taking it back to 45 mins I guess) - with all the new journeys that will bring - it might one day have a use case as an alt service down to Southampton and so on.

But would need bi-modes, wires to Basingstoke. and actual paths to make it happen. Highly unlikely but an interesting idea for different connectivity. And a quicker London service? Perhaps it could replace/augment XC below Reading. Birmingham and Manchester via OOC/HS2 would be much faster.

 

[cactustwirly]

They can convert more 319s in storage. Furthermore the Bedwyn service is getting withdrawn so that does free up space. Also, has there been any time in the past that GWR operated a a direct service to Basingstoke?

Well the 769s are a long way from service at the moment. Personally I think the 165s will be staying at Reading in the medium term...

 

[43021HST]

Can’t see it happening. Energy is right, they are seemingly troublesome and so the last place you’d want them is blocking up the throat at Paddington. I could see a market for a Basingstoke through to Maidenhead or Slough service but not enough to warrant the path and the hard work to make it happen. Basingstoke to London pax are well served by SWR already and the change at Reading isn’t difficult if someone wanted Paddington specifically.

Agree, the only other benefits I can see is perhaps reducing overcrowding at Waterloo and if it's possible to make the service faster than the SWR Basingstoke service, which due to the LSWR mainline being far more direct, I doubt it's possible. I wonder if a Southampton - Oxford would have more utility and relieve congestion on XC services

 

[JonathanH]

I wonder if a Southampton - Oxford would have more utility and relieve congestion on XC services

Given there weren't paths for XC to run 2tph in every hour between Southampton and Reading prior to March 2020 it isn't exactly clear how there would be now.

 

[miklcct]

Basingstoke - Paddington is actually time-competitive with Basingstoke-Waterloo so it's a matter of where in London the passenger wants to get to. If it is possible to run bi-mode 802s between Basingstoke - Paddington on the fast line between Reading - Paddington, replacing the current local trains between Basingstoke - Reading, it will be very competitive to the existing SWR services and can serve as a very useful alternative when the SWR line at Woking is closed for weekend engineering works.

In the long term, the line should be electrified with 25 kV overhead line.

 

[cle]

Basingstoke - Paddington is actually time-competitive with Basingstoke-Waterloo so it's a matter of where in London the passenger wants to get to. If it is possible to run bi-mode 802s between Basingstoke - Paddington on the fast line between Reading - Paddington, replacing the current local trains between Basingstoke - Reading, it will be very competitive to the existing SWR services and can serve as a very useful alternative when the SWR line at Woking is closed for weekend engineering works.

In the long term, the line should be electrified with 25 kV overhead line.

It definitely is nearly as quick, if you have a modern 125mph unit for the first leg. Having two London termini is not unheard of, especially for an arc of wealthy, heavy rail use places. Paddington and Waterloo are not close either.... London is huge, and demand is widely spread. The West End would be much quicker this way, especially as the outer SWT services don't call at Vauxhall.

And as I mentioned, the OOC hub will change things a lot in terms of travel patterns and options. HS2, Crossrail and hopefully other options like Overground and general West London access... plus of course, better Heathrow access too.

A Paddington - OOC - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton service I think would be very well used and complementary to the Waterloo service. I doubt it'll happen of course, for all the reasons we've mentioned, but on paper it's interesting. Would relieve the Waterloo service, and offer more - even 1tph would be helpful - more so than the Southampton 1tp2h XC extension is.

 

[Kite159]

Basingstoke - Paddington is actually time-competitive with Basingstoke-Waterloo so it's a matter of where in London the passenger wants to get to. If it is possible to run bi-mode 802s between Basingstoke - Paddington on the fast line between Reading - Paddington, replacing the current local trains between Basingstoke - Reading, it will be very competitive to the existing SWR services and can serve as a very useful alternative when the SWR line at Woking is closed for weekend engineering works.

In the long term, the line should be electrified with 25 kV overhead line.

The problem with using a 5 coach 802 is that its too long for the bay platform so will have to use a through platform.

SWR do occasionally extend some of the diesels to Reading on Saturdays when Woking area is closed to allow passengers to avoid using the replacement bus. They have the regular Reading services on Sundays until the evening when they go to London (or terminate at Basingstoke if there is engineering works).

 

[davetheguard]

I seem to remember at some time in the 80s(?) a short lived through morning working from Basingstoke to Paddington via Reading using a 6 car (2x3 car) class 117 first generation DMU. There was no return working.

It was also odd in that it was crewed (Driver & Guard) by Oxford depot, rather than by Reading who worked regularly over the line.

 

[JonathanH]

It was also odd in that it was crewed (Driver & Guard) by Oxford depot, rather than by Reading who worked regularly over the line.

Did Reading traincrews work the Southern Region DEMUs over the Reading to Basingstoke line? Surely it was a Southern Region operation.

On the Basingstoke point, there is some discussion about 117 workings here.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wr-class-117-dmus-unusual-workings.187297/#post-4141693

 

[davetheguard]

Did Reading traincrews work the Southern Region DEMUs over the Reading to Basingstoke line? Surely it was a Southern Region operation.

Yes, but no further than Basingstoke - at various times some trains continued on to Salisbury or to Portsmouth (although the Sunday Portsmouth trains were class 33 + 4TC rather than DEMUs).

 

[route101]

Often get a fair few changing at Paddington from Basingstoke or further South onto the GWR at Reading. A Reading to Southampton service would be useful to plug the missing XC gaps and missing the fasts through Basingtstoke.

 

[PTR 444]

Often get a fair few changing at Paddington from Basingstoke or further South onto the GWR at Reading. A Reading to Southampton service would be useful to plug the missing XC gaps and missing the fasts through Basingtstoke.

I don’t think there needs to be a standalone Reading to Southampton service if the other 1tp2h XC service from the North East could be extended there instead, providing 2tph along the whole corridor to the South Coast.

 

[JonathanH]

I don’t think there needs to be a standalone Reading to Southampton service if the other 1tp2h XC service from the North East could be extended there instead, providing 2tph along the whole corridor to the South Coast.

There is no sign that 1tph XC will return south of Reading let alone 2tph. However, I don't think it should be filled with a train from Paddington.

 

[cle]

I understood that was a stock utilization issue above even a pathing one. If a separate category of regional diesel services can't exist from Reading (e.g. 1tph Salisbury, Southampton or Portsmouth) - which might be fun but probably difficult, then hopefully additional stock for XC soon to be released from MML/WCML services might enable this hourly Southampton service which would fill a gap for that regional connectivity.

They'll be back below Reading eventually.

 

[PTR 444]

I understood that was a stock utilization issue above even a pathing one. If a separate category of regional diesel services can't exist from Reading (e.g. 1tph Salisbury, Southampton or Portsmouth) - which might be fun but probably difficult, then hopefully additional stock for XC soon to be released from MML/WCML services might enable this hourly Southampton service which would fill a gap for that regional connectivity.

They'll be back below Reading eventually.

I always thought it was to do with a lack of paths between Basingstoke and Southampton, but then I guess it does see a lot more freight than most other stretches of mainline in the country

 

[swt_passenger]

I always thought it was to do with a lack of paths between Basingstoke and Southampton, but then I guess it does see a lot more freight than most other stretches of mainline in the country

The route studies definitely explained the potential 2 tph XC south of Reading was unachievable with existing freight paths.
Not a rolling stock problem as such, although it obviously would need an extra unit per day diagrammed on that service group.