London to Kings Cross OffPeak - Epsom

[NeroWolfe]

As you can see I’m new to the Forum - hello Folks.

Reading the posts on ticketing and disputes has prompted me to ask for your clarification on my journey. I have searched previous threads but cannot find a similar question but if so, please do point me in the right direction.

When moving from always being a Gold Card season ticket holder to having to purchase (infrequent) daily tickets at different times of the day made me realise how many permutations there are!

I travel from Huntingdon to Kings Cross on Great Northern and return the same day and I was originally told by the Ticket Office that if I travelled after 9.00 in the morning but wanted to return leaving London within the 16.30-19.00 peak time I could purchase an Off-Peak Day Return to Epsom and this would be a valid ticket. I now buy my tickets from the on-site machine so no need to visit the Ticket Office.

I didn’t get an explanation of why this is allowed (just that this station is on the GN/Thameslink route) but just wanted to check that this is the case.

Also when the trains change this year and there is a straight through route to south of London - will I still be allowed to exit and board at Kings X i.e. I wouldn’t be on a homeward bound train that had previously called at Epsom.

Apologies if I’ve not explained this well or it is a non-question.

Many thanks

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum. There are many myths about rail tickets but you've come to the right place for advice.

There is no such thing as an Off Peak train, or any blanket times during which off peak tickets aren't valid. What actually happens is that every individual ticket has its own off peak restrictions. In the case of a Huntingdon-Epsom Off Peak Day Return this is Y4 and will be shown on the new style ticket as something like 'valid only at certain times see nationalrail.co.uk/y4 for full details'.

If you look this up it says that the outward portion is valid from Huntingdon from 0900 and the return portion is not valid for travel between 0429 and 0930. It is therefore valid throughout the evening rush hour. The vast majority of normal 'walk on' tickets allow break of journey (if it's barred the restriction code will say) so you are perfectly free to start or finish your journey short of Epsom (you can even use the ticket to make a single underground journey between Kings Cross and any other appropriate station to connect with trains to Epsom - you may finish this journey short but you may not resume the journey in the Underground).

Please do be aware that some rail staff are poorly trained and believe that there are blanket peak restrictions. Don't expect the ticket to work the barriers at Kings Cross in the evening peak, you'll probably have to be let through manually. I've personally been told by a manager at Kings Cross that a ticket with a Y4 restriction is not valid to travel at 1730 on a weekday because no off peak tickets are valid at that time. That's totally incorrect, but do be prepared to have to have a robust conversation if your encounter poorly trained staff or those who make up their own rules.

 

[NeroWolfe]

Thank you Hadders for this excellent explanation - and this is probably one of the more basic journeys! I will brush up on correct terminology for my next post!

 

[_toommm_]

Thank you Hadders for this excellent explanation - and this is probably one of the more basic journeys! I will brush up on correct terminology for my next post!

All you really need to mention to the gateline staff is that the restriction code Y4 only has limitations of time of travel in the morning peak and not the evening.

If the staff member has any credibility as soon as you show an understanding of restriction codes, they should let you through (often begrudgingly) or ask someone else/the internet

 

[MarlowDonkey]

There is no such thing as an Off Peak train, or any blanket times during which off peak tickets aren't valid. What actually happens is that every individual ticket has its own off peak restrictions. In the case of a Huntingdon-Epsom Off Peak Day Return this is Y4 and will be shown on the new style ticket as something like 'valid only at certain times see nationalrail.co.uk/y4 for full details'.

If you look this up it says that the outward portion is valid from Huntingdon from 0900 and the return portion is not valid for travel between 0429 and 0930. It is therefore valid throughout the evening rush hour.

This is the similar option as used by the poster who periodically gets delayed at Paddington for an argument as to whether his South London to Didcot off peak ticket is valid on otherwise restricted trains.

 

[Hadders]

All you really need to mention to the gateline staff is that the restriction code Y4 only has limitations of time of travel in the morning peak and not the evening.

If the staff member has any credibility as soon as you show an understanding of restriction codes, they should let you through (often begrudgingly) or ask someone else/the internet

Sadly this didn’t happen in my case which took place after a Fares Workshop and was witnessed by several forum members.

I asked for a manager to be called and who told us that no Off peak tickets were valid at 1730 and that the barriers are programmed to know exactly what tickets are valid for travel at that time. Eventually I was grudgingly let through and told in no uncertain terms that I would be dealt with on the train(nothing happened, of course).

In my experience the barriers at Kings Cross are often open in the evening Peak anyway, especially in the main trainshed.

 

[talldave]

If you look this up it says that the outward portion is valid from Huntingdon from 0900 and the return portion is not valid for travel between 0429 and 0930. It is therefore valid throughout the evening rush hour. The vast majority of normal 'walk on' tickets allow break of journey (if it's barred the restriction code will say) so you are perfectly free to start or finish your journey short of Epsom (you can even use the ticket to make a single underground journey between Kings Cross and any other appropriate station to connect with trains to Epsom - you may finish this journey short but you may not resume the journey in the Underground).........

Be prepared for an argument if trying to stop short on the Underground, especially if you're unlucky enough to choose Warren Street as your point of exit. I've had a member of staff there tell me that you have to travel to Epsom on your ticket and as far as he's concerned you're trapped on the tube until a suitable interchange station (Victoria, Vauxhall, etc). He sees this as justice/revenge against someone who's bought a ticket to somewhere they're not going in order to gain on cost/restrictions.