London to Shildon - enough connection time to buy a ticket?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by robert7111a, 6 Feb 2019.

  1. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    I have an advance ticket from London Kings Cross to Darlington this weekend and have since decided to pop to Locomotion at Shildon. I understand that the Northern strike has been suspended so am pleased local trains will run

    My worry is that even if my LNER train arrives on time into Darlington, I only have about 10mins connection time to run out the station, purchase a ticket and run back again. If I miss the Shildon train, it's an hour's wait until the next one

    Reading the woes on the Disputes forum, am I onto a loser here? Can I really not purchase a ticket from the guard? Will I have to take other means of transport?

    Thanks in advance
     
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  3. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Why don't you pre-buy your ticket to Shildon on line, then collect it from Kings Cross before you depart?
     
  4. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Can I do this for Northern trains in London!?
     
  5. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Of course. But also take note that despite the strike being called off, it still won't be a normal Saturday service.
     
  6. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Considering the trains are hourly, can I presume Northern will lay on a replacement bus if a train doesn't run?
     
  7. mikeg

    mikeg Member

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    If a train doesn't run they have to get you there, providing the train was scheduled to run when you bought your ticket and you have a valid itinerary. Whether they will honour this initially is another question as Northern have proven themselves to have scant regard for the rules, but being bloody minded and principled as I am I insist you insist your rights be honoured.
     
  8. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If not, and you already purchased your tickets before departure from Kings Cross, then providing it's a valid travel itinerary for your whole journey from Kings Cross to Shildon, you'd be entitled to Delay Repay for your journey if you were sufficiently delayed into Shildon.

    If you wait until you get to Darlington and find you have either missed the train or its cancelled and you don't have a contract in place, then the above would not apply.
     
  9. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Thanks to both Ianno and yorkie

    I've have bought my ticket on-line which I'll collect at KGX (didn't know I could do this for other operator's local trains)

    At least I'll have the ticket when I get to Darlington - don't want to be stressing or rushing about when I get there - or get done for not having a ticket when boarding the train ;)
     
  10. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    You not only can do this but the rules say you should.

    It may be cheaper to split at Darlington or it may be that a ticket to Shildon is the same price as a ticket to Darlington.

    In fact there are websites that will work out if it's cheaper to buy a through ticket or a combination of tickets and sell you the cheaper option and give you one through itinerary (useful evidence of a contract) , though of course that doesn't help if you change your mind after booking.

    Now you have the additional ticket, you have a contract in place for a through journey from Kings Cross all the way to Shildon.
     
  11. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    When I originally bought my Advance to Darlington, I hadn't planned to go to Shildon - but considering it is only "up the road", I thought better - why miss the opportunity?

    I don't like risking "other websites", preferring to use the operator's website.

    Again, thanks for your help :)
     
  12. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    You can buy tickets from the operator of each service, but I'd say that is a greater "risk", and potentially more hassle if this is go wrong, than buying all your tickets for your journey from one retailer.
     
  13. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    It isn't often that there is a specific advantage to this - in fact, in most cases, having one through itinerary is useful if you have any problems down the line, moreso than having booked it on the operator's website (which is actually, legally and practically speaking, just a rebranded version of the main players', e.g. Trainline's, website).
     
  14. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Points taken but I have serious reservations using Trainline after reading the stories on here

    Now I know, I'll bear your's and yorkie's advice in mind for future purchases
     
  15. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    The strike timetable is active. Although they’re not striking its stillthat timetable this weekend as others have said. There appears to be an hourly service at **40 and returning from Shildon at around **15. Bear in mind that the 1715 from Shokdon back to Darlington is the last one of the day.
     
  16. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Yes, thank you for reminding me of the last train... I would like to photograph the signalbox and from what I remember, there was a semaphore there
     
  17. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    Never use Trainline as they add booking fees. Best to use a train company website as they aren't allowed to add booking fees and they sell all sell tickets for any route at the same price (there are occasionally a handful of special offer tickets that are only available through the specific train company website but we don't need to worry about that for the purpose of this discussion).
     
  18. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Just a quick note to appreciate the help on here, printed my Northern ticket at KGX. Unfortunately my LNER train was delayed between York and Darlington which caused me to miss the Shildon train by a mere 2mins as that was allowed in front ☹
     
  19. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    Don't forget to claim either compensation, or a refund, depending on what you did.

    If you caught the next train to Shildon an hour later, then as was previously explained you can claim for an hour's delay from LNER, based on the combined cost of the two tickets. Although you bought two tickets, you were making one journey, and so even if the LNER train was delayed by less than an hour, your journey from London to Shildon would have been delayed by an hour.

    If you abandoned the trip to Shildon, you should claim for a full refund of the cost of that ticket, without any admin charge deducted if you explain the reason you want the refund was because the connection was missed. This may be easier to obtain if you bought both tickets from LNER.

    If you could make a good argument that your whole trip was wasted (if you immediately returned on the next LNER service) then you could try for a full refund of your LNER ticket too. I have successfully claimed from LNER for a full refund on a journey that had to be abandoned mid-journey. Again, easier if you bought both tickets from LNER.

    For delays, you claim from the company that caused you to be delayed. For refunds, you claim from whoever sold you the ticket (the company whose web-site you used to buy the ticket).
     
  20. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    I got a taxi to Shildon rather than wait another hour. Not sure whether to bother claiming delay repay for a £4.40 fare if I'm only gonna get back tuppence. Should I send my taxi receipt to LNER (not Northern) and try my luck there...?

    Anyway, I wasn't going to abandon/waste my day and return to London on the next LNER service - I had a good day in the end. And I struck lucky on the way home as I asked the train manager (of an earlier train) if there were any seats and that service was faster to London.
     
    Last edited: 9 Feb 2019
  21. Intermodal

    Intermodal Member

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    You can certainly write to them and include the receipt and story but they are not at all obligated to reimburse you.
     
  22. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

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    Having read many stories on here, I am pretty sure of it too.... All made up on the way home without having to pay an admin fee for boarding an earlier train on an Advance :D
     
  23. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    And indeed they wouldn’t do. And rightly so. It was LNER that caused you to be delayed. If you arrived at your destination an hour late you’re entitled to 100% of the cost of your advance from king’s Cross to Darlington and 50% of your return ticket from Darlington to Shildon, claimable from LNER.
     
  24. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    You cannot get Northern to refund your Darlington-Shildon ticket if you used the return half of it to get back from Shildon.

    As I said earlier, any claims for being delayed should be submitted to the TOC that delayed you, i.e. LNER (as it was their train that ran late and missed the connection) NOT Northern. As robbeech says, the compensation should be based on the cost of BOTH tickets. By taking the taxi, you have lessened the delay, but not your right to compensation. Either they can refund your taxi fare, or pay you compensation based on the delay that you would have incurred had you not taken the taxi. If the taxi fare was significantly more than the compensation, they will likely pay the compensation. But I have had both paid, admittedly with a different TOC, quite awhile ago, and for a much more significant delay.

    The only thing that you can be sure of is that you will get nothing if you don't submit a claim. And remember that LNER may have got compensation from Network Rail if it was their fault that the train ran late, in which case any unclaimed compensation is just extra profit for LNER.
     
  25. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    As gets mentioned here frequently, the whole network rail paying the toc and it becoming profit is somewhat inaccurate. It’s not exactly how it works but this shouldn’t stop you from claiming.

    The issue as I see it is you didn’t travel by train so you shouldn’t really claim for the time the next train got in if you didn’t use it. However if you were delayed by over 30 minutes when you actually got there you are entitled to compensation, though I wouldn’t expect any taxi fare to be paid.
     
  26. E759

    E759 Member

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    How long did you have/need in Locomotion?

    I'm heading up from Kings Cross Thursday 14/2 on a Flat Fare £15 ticket :) Currently planning to visit Head of Steam followed by Locomotion. Was at York Friday 8/2 10:00-17:00 and needed a couple more hours to be honest.
     
  27. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    It's not a huge site - the main train shed and then (a 5 minute walk away) several buildings that were part of the original railway worksm detailing the history of Shildon, Timothy Hackworth and the Stockton & Darlington railway. 2 hours is enough for a full visit; 3 if you really want to explore everything. If forced to pick, I'd probably suggest 2 rather than 3 if you need to plan your day and note that it's a shame the service is not half hourly as 2.5 may be the best option!

    Edit - that post reads a touch negative; it's not meant to be! It's just not the biggest site.
     
  28. E759

    E759 Member

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    Thank you very much! I've currently planned for 1.5 hrs in Head of Steam and 3 hrs in Locomotion. As you say the Donkey Cart timings (and winter closing time) limit options.
     
  29. E759

    E759 Member

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    For what it is worth, my own experiences living in Southern land and travelling to the North and beyond:

    - GWR, EMT, Chiltern and GA have some great through Advances. The weekday peak leg of the journey up to London effectively being free! You can buy direct from these TOC or Raileasy and get a through itinerary. I've not yet worked out any advantage/disadvantage using Raileasy over the TOC. But I do use Raileasy to "check" the TOC results ;)
    - I personally always TOD all tickets to my local Southern station and collect a day or so before travelling; perhaps that's because I worked in IT...
    - VTEC and LNER I've never personally found any cheap through Advances. Instead I use Raileasy for the reason explained above and as advised by senior forum members who know what they are talking about (thank you again).
    - I will offer a caveat to the VTEC and LNER situation though: Buying direct from VTEC and LNER will result in you receiving discount codes and notifications of seat sales. E.g. Euston to Glasgow 1st class weekday £40. I added a ScotRail ticket to Dunoon to that one. King Cross to Edinburgh and return £34 & £20 respectively. I had a random 20% discount code from VTEC the other day which I'm using to go to the ELR Spring Steam Gala. Obviously you have to accept the risk of not having a through itinerary since all these offers are usually for start/end locations wholly within VTEC/LNER land. So I'm not making a recommendation just pointing out that I've personally been very pleased with the discounts VTEC and LNER have sent me. And yes, I do sign up to Marketing ;)

    YMMV
     

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