London Waterloo retail - what's going on?

[Kilopylae]

I've always found Victoria to be absolutely dire as a pedestrian, not to mention trying to use a bicycle in the area.

The transfer from Victoria NR to Victoria Coach Station, or even the coach stop outside the station, seems to have been made as dire as possible. It's actually easier at night, because at least then you can take slightly more risks with crossing the roads.

 

[Busaholic]

That's a very snide article!

In what way?

 

[Mikey C]

I've always found Victoria to be absolutely dire as a pedestrian, not to mention trying to use a bicycle in the area.

Victoria has large exits leading straight out onto the wide pavement, from where you can go in all directions easily whereas Waterloo's main entrance is at the top of some pretty steep steps which leads down to a really narrow pavement.

Victoria's buses are right outside also, and nicely grouped.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Victoria's buses are right outside also, and nicely grouped.

And create quite a conflict with passengers that have neatly been narrowed down into a critical area with blindspots before again diverging onto a road design that isn't easy to understand and heavily polluted depending on which direction one is led. Perhaps something for a different thread though

 

[Taunton]

I didn't even realise there was shops in the level below!

I likewise think many don't realise there are units in the level above the concourse, refurbished some years ago from offices, complete with new escalators. They are not really on the pedestrian route to anywhere, even those going up there to access Waterloo East pass them by, and the various occupants seem to come and go. This then becomes self-perpetuating; because there's nothing high turnover or mainstream up there, there's no point going up to browse.

I wonder if the Waterloo East footbridge link will be the next to go, with the "must do it at surface level" paranoia.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I likewise think many don't realise there are units in the level above the concourse, refurbished some years ago from offices, complete with new escalators. They are not really on the pedestrian route to anywhere, even those going up there to access Waterloo East pass them by, and the various occupants seem to come and go. This then becomes self-perpetuating; because there's nothing high turnover or mainstream up there, there's no point going up to browse.

I wonder if the Waterloo East footbridge link will be the next to go, with the "must do it at surface level" paranoia.

Well - there was, some years back, an on-the-level exit from the Waterloo concourse towards W East - following the route of the through tracks that existed for a while a century ago, across the road where the buses and taxis are, and over what was the bridge carrying the connecting track. Of course you then needed to go up and over in order to have access to all four of the W East platforms. But that link wasn't at surface level of course.

 

[davews]

I still consider myself pretty mobile even at 73 but last time I climbed the Victoria Arch steps I really struggled. What facilities are there for disabled access?
As to the shops there seem to be plenty of people exiting platforms 20-24 via the escalators nowadays so they presumably are aware of the shops but those from other platforms probably aren't. Not been in the Stables yet myself, I normally head straight for the main loos. Are the ones down there open now.
I used to eat occasionally in Natural Kitchen or Carluccio's right at the end of the upper balcony but both those have gone now. But frequently use the escalators and Waterloo East bridge, I would be surprised if that went.

 

[nlogax]

I wonder if the Waterloo East footbridge link will be the next to go, with the "must do it at surface level" paranoia.

I highly doubt it. Forcing people to use the streets around Victory Arch is one thing but forcing them to connect to another mainline station by crossing Waterloo Road and wandering the backstreets of residential Lambeth is something else.

 

[Rescars]

Sold out at BR privatisation to BK in the mid-1990s. The Waterloo one was the first one in the chain. Here's a photo of how it was then :

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

You have to wonder what Wokery led to this. The route now to the London Eye etc is down the Victory Arch steps and across the road. Apart from the timewasting, as I have passed two pedestrian accidents there over recent years, one fallen down the Victory steps in the snow, the other hit by a motorbike crossing York Road, you have to wonder what sort of Risk Assessment led to this - and what a waste of expensive infrastructure thrown away to satisfy some oddball fetish.

Ah, Casey Jones! One of Travellers Fare's better innovations.

 

[WesternBiker]

I still consider myself pretty mobile even at 73 but last time I climbed the Victoria Arch steps I really struggled. What facilities are there for disabled access?
As to the shops there seem to be plenty of people exiting platforms 20-24 via the escalators nowadays so they presumably are aware of the shops but those from other platforms probably aren't. Not been in the Stables yet myself, I normally head straight for the main loos. Are the ones down there open now.
I used to eat occasionally in Natural Kitchen or Carluccio's right at the end of the upper balcony but both those have gone now. But frequently use the escalators and Waterloo East bridge, I would be surprised if that went.

From the South Bank, you can walk past the Victory Arch steps up the slope of the Station Approach / Cab Road to Entrance/Exit 3. I have used this in the past when arriving with luggage.

Exit 2 has a lift to Waterloo Road (and from there the Jubilee Line) and Exit 1 onto the eastern side of the Station Approach also has level access, although it is a long loop to get down to street level (and a bit of a climb if you are going upwards).

 

[Recessio]

It doesn't help that the pedestrian route from the Victory Arch to the Embankment is such a mess - I can't think of another London terminus with such poor pedestrian access.

Have you not been to Euston, especially since the new layout to accommodate the HS2 works? Choked in by main roads, construction sites, and scammers.

Honestly can't say I know Waterloo all too well, but suffice to say I managed to both arrive and leave by trains on the International platforms without spotting where this new shopping bit is. They might need some better signage...

 

[Backroom_boy]

There's a Sainsbury's Local due to open soon which will probably attract people in. But I think it was a mistake not to put in escalators down to it from the concourse end, this will be a bit of a barrier for speculative visitors.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

The new Sainsburys and Brewdog should help in some way but the Sidings has a lot to live up to especially with the recent opening of Battersea Power Station.

I had hopes for the Sidings that I believed it may look impressive, spacious and airy something similar to some Paris stations like Saint-Lazare's shopping gallery.

As a result the Sidings looks dank, dark, more like a subway passage that one would pass through rather than spending leisure time there.

Natural lighting of course would be difficult with the platforms above, fitting in skylights may help? I think the area in Eurostar times had bright uplighter fittings illuminating the dark ceiling which the new LED striplights appear starker in contrast.

The real moment of truth will be whether commuters will return, the higher footfall the more units open up for business. The Sidings could fare better in few years time.

 

[nlogax]

As a result the Sidings looks dank, dark, more like a subway passage that one would pass through rather than spending leisure time there.

Went down there on Wednesday just for a look around to see if things had improved in recent weeks. Needless to say they had not improved. It's hideously out of sync with the rest of the Waterloo redevelopment and suffers because of that.

 

[fandroid]

I agree - going to and from the bus lay-by in Waterloo Road is far from easy.

Isn't there a subway - a decent direct one between concourse and bus stops with at least one escalator?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The new Sainsburys and Brewdog should help in some way but the Sidings has a lot to live up to especially with the recent opening of Battersea Power Station.

Waterloo commuters are hardly gonna quickly pop down there before their train to Staines if they get to Waterloo and don't like the selection

 

[Goldfish62]

Isn't there a subway - a decent direct one between concourse and bus stops with at least one escalator?

Yes, straight from the concourse to Tennison Way (where most of the northbound stops are).

 

[AlbertBeale]

Yes, straight from the concourse to Tennison Way (where most of the northbound stops are).

I'm not sure about "straight from"! Isn't that the route where you go down and up and down again - a mixture of esclators and stairs - it's not too obvious. And last time I was there the route was closed off - though perhaps only temporarily?

 

[thomalex]

Also had a nosy around here the other day and agree, it's all a bit weird. I also discovered there's a secret second floor when you walk right to the end with super low ceilings which links onto the Underground and there's another flight of stairs down there to a third level which is currently an unfinished pit.

It will certainly feel different when some shops open but the problem is it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Even with the big Brewdog at the end there's only a few people walking through. It almost feels like you shouldn't be there. I do think they'll struggle to fill all the units.

They would have been better having this as a double height space with large escalators taking you down from the main concourse. I'm not sure as to the previous layout but the 2 floors just feel squeezed in and not a place you'd want to spend any time.

 

[BenS123]

I would completely agree with everything said here - I went today and the centre is extremely underadvertised (you only really find it if you know where it is) and empty. There were a few people there (by that I mean the most I could see at one time was 10) and I sense the BBC article has maybe brought a couple more people who know the place is there, but I personally cannot visualise it being a major shopping destination.

Interestingly though - Brewdog seemed quite full? On the other hand, I walked past WHSmith and it was completely empty, exactly the same with Costa. As I have already said, personally I cannot see this centre being a shopping hub as realistically no business will be willing to move into a completely empty shopping centre unless they believed people would come just for that shop!

Also, the main shops currently in the centre already exist in the concourse, that being Pret, WHSmith and Costa (although currently closed). Passengers will most likely opt for the concourse level shop as it is easier to get to, or not know the shop in the sidings exists.

 

[kentrailman]

Went for a look at the sidings yesterday .. Only knew of it thanks to the various recent news articles .. The toilets down there are very posh and clean compared to the main concourse toilets .. No comparison and only a few moments walk away from the grotty crowded concourse toilets. Things will no doubt change once more people know about them though.

At the moment there seem to be more security guards down there than open shops !

By the way I used to love Casey Jones burgers . From memory they were really good. I have fond memories of late night burgers at the Waterloo and Euston outlets before or after trainspotting jaunts. ( I am also old enough to remember watching the Casey Jones TV show they were named after as a child )

Also, to add my voice to those on the thread, I took ages yesterday negotiating the traffic and hoardings to get to the south Bank. Used to be so easy simply walking over the bridge along the walkway through shell centre.

 

[davews]

Looks like a trip down there just to use the loos might be worth it.... Will have a quick eye next time I am up there.