Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Darklord8899]

Also on an side note what other service changes should we be expecting from both Lothian and East Coast?

I’m hoping in my opinion a few extension of pre-existing routes and a few new routes for the summer
(Here’s a list of proposed service changes I had in my mind)

Lothian
7- Extended to Ocean Terminal
11 already extended Newhaven to Ocean Terminal, can't see them extending the 7 as well

21 - Runs via Wakefield Avenue to/from Portobello (Replaced by 200 in Craigentinny Avenue)

24 - Extended to The Jewel via Greendykes
...would need to reallocate vehicles, can't see the electrics make it that far

38 - Extend to Granton Square on all days
Not sure this is needed on a Sunday

N25 - Extended to Lochend Roundabout via Leith Walk and Restalig Road, continues on a one way loop via Marionville Road and Lochend Road South
...Might work, though surprised they haven't tried already... maybe hourly rather than every 30mins....

30/N30 - Extended to Whitecraig via Inveresk
Maybe on a Friday Night/Saturday Night.

200 - Extended to Eastfield Terminus via Salamander Street, Seafield, Craigentinny, Portobello

300 - Extended to Royal Infirmary via Old Dalkeith Road
200/300 given they previous reduction in Skylink vehicles, can't see them rebranding vehicles as would need to increase allocation again. Also extending 300 to RIE I don't think would help reliability, especially at peak times.

East Coast Buses

113 - Now runs via Western General in both directions (Mirroring 38) on Monday-Sunday, Sunday buses extend to West Granton

140 - Extended to Ocean Terminal via Portobello, Seafield, Leith Walk
.... would make more sense to me from extending from Musselburgh to Fort Kinnard

New Services

Lothian
13 - Restalrig to Craigleith
Via Lochend, Dalmeny Street, Broughton, Bellevue, West End, Dean Gallary, Ravelston and Blackhall
This tender is already run by Edinburgh Coach Lines

46 - Balerno to Granton Harbour
Via Curriehill, Hermiston, Sighthill, Edinburgh Park, Gyle, Maybery, Barnton, Davidson Mains, Silverknowes, Muirhouse, West Granton
Balerno, Curriehill, Hermiston, Airport might be the new Skylink 500

East Coast

X13 - Pencaitland to Haymarket
Via Ormiston, Tranent, A1, Brunstane, Willowbrae, Regent Road and West End
X13 Pencaitland to Granton (all stops to Tranent via A1 stopping at Jewel, Willowbrae Rd, Meadowbank House, Cadzow Pl/Earlston Pl, Regent Rd, Waterloo Pl., Princes St @ Fredrick St., West End, all stops to Granton)
Also a couple of extra peaks as
Ex13 to Haymarket (All stops Pencaitland to Tranent then via A1 stop at Jewel, Meadowbank house, Waterloo Place, Princes St. @ Fredrick St., Shandwick Pl and Haymarket only.)

120 - North Berwick to Dunbar
Via Tantallion Castle, Whitekirk, Thyinghame, East Linton, West Barns and Belhaven.
East Lothian tender run by Eve Bus & Coach

Thoughts? it’s just a little fun but thought these changes could make sense in the long term

I've added my comments in above....

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The 300 and X13 are the only one reallistic all the rest are just pointless

Not true, for example the 200 extension could not only link up the Airport to the South of Leith but also to Portobello, also by linking those places with Newhaven and Granton like the old 32, and if not then a 140 extension could connect with the 200 and provide that link as well as connect Leith with East Lothian and Midlothian, the rest seem like mild changes that could happen, also if ECB took over the 120 then the trusty daytickets can be used and save time instead of connecting with an X7 or 106 in a halfway point!

The return of the 32 as well is highly likely - Royal Mail, College students (including myself) and school travellers to St Augustine's from the North all want this to happen. Likely route is as it was but through the industrial estate instead of Broomhouse Road - not confirmed, potentially to OT as well. Every 30 all day Monday to Friday with Singles. Reduced Frequencies at weekends. 21 will apparently reduce to every 20 mins (kept at 15 during peak) with all journeys to the Gyle and then covering Clovenstone late in the evening when it doesn't serve the Gyle and imo probably on a Sunday too. Even I can't see the demand for the 32 on a Sunday. Personally I'd rather the 21 was left alone and the 32 goes to Riccarton via the Industrial Estate to offer yet another connection to there. Again it would be well used

I think the 21 might stay as it is, it took ages for them to up the frequency to/from the Royal but it got there, a 32 equivalent would be great, even though the 200 mirrors most of the original route, maybe it could go to Riccarton since it doesn’t have a link to the North end of town

 

[Lothian_Bus]

A rare Saturday run out for two tridents today.

697 on the 49 and 699 operating on service 12.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I happen to agree with the others here. Extending the 200 is rather pointless. You'd need to brand at least another 5 or 6 buses to cover both those extensions to the 200 and 300. Also I imagine the 200 would need to double back on itself at OT (Very well used). People in the East have been offered links to Granton, Newhaven and especially OT in the past and they just haven't been viable enough

The N7 only goes to OT so it saves a bus (Combined PVR with N11 of 3), Viability wise it going to OT is pointless whereas N11 works. It just goes there to switch routes, nothing else. The 7 would be better going into Western Harbour if you really really wanted to extend it but even then its probably gonna be poorly used as 10 follows it for much of the northern route

The 38 likewise would be better going along to Muirhouse and Silverknowes rather than the harbour which wasn't used. The section to Muirhouse on the 38 was withdrawn because of vandals supposedly as opposed to poor usage. Bare in mind this was when the 24 and 42 went the other ways in the North

The 113 is unreliable enough as it is without adding in a silly section at the WGH. If you put it in there it would probs put people off using it as it would be slower than the 19 and 47 up to town

30 again is unreliable so that wouldn't work. The Prentice 111 and 140 give 3 buses an hour to Musselburgh which is more than enough


I agree with the others that at a push you may get the two mentioned by Overthewater but probably none of those ideas will happen because its not viable or practical enough

I think the 21 might stay as it is, it took ages for them to up the frequency to/from the Royal but it got there, a 32 equivalent would be great, even though the 200 mirrors most of the original route, maybe it could go to Riccarton since it doesn’t have a link to the North end of town

The 21 would be fine at every 20 mins with the deckers. If it were singles then it'd be a problem. Obvs the peaks at every 15 would stay

 

[Darklord8899]

A rare Saturday run out for two tridents today.

697 on the 49 and 699 operating on service 12.

Yes, I spotted a Trident on the 12 around 5:30pm on Broomhouse Road, couldn't catch it's number...guessing it would have been 699 then

 

[route101]

Last of tridents , are they just on peak extras now??

 

[ScotRail158725]

Just a thought but Metroline loose the 207 contract in April and 207 uses Ex-First vehicles wich are leased, do any of you think Lothian will buy any?

 

[thealexweb]

I currently commute from Liberton to the Western General. The morning peak timetable is awful, there are 29s due at 07:28, 08:03 and 08:53. 07:28 gets me to work 40 minutes early and 08:03 doesn't reliably get me there for 09:00. And yes the nearest X29 stop is miles away, X29 runs express all the way through Liberton...

If the gaps in service could be patched that would be great, but it won't happen

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Last of tridents , are they just on peak extras now??

Not quite - two on service yesterday (see my post above).

 

[OmniCity999]

When the 42 ADL 400XLBs enter service, we'll lose 65 B7's from active service, most if which will he parked in Marine car park.

There are going to be no vast route changes. Its going to be a case of timetable changes and route alterations to accommodate these new machines. With changes to other routes being minimal, unless Lothian have new vehicles still on order with Wright or continue to buy second hand. I'm led to believe the 6 X B9TLs acquired from London are to be used for one of the subsidiaries.

 

[ScotRail158725]

When the 42 ADL 400XLBs enter service, we'll lose 65 B7's from active service, most if which will he parked in Marine car park.

There are going to be no vast route changes. Its going to be a case of timetable changes and route alterations to accommodate these new machines. With changes to other routes being minimal, unless Lothian have new vehicles still on order with Wright or continue to buy second hand. I'm led to believe the 6 X B9TLs acquired from London are to be used for one of the subsidiaries.

So thats all the Longstone & Marine ones then 701 is gone already and 702-766 are all at Marine/Longstone with 767 upwards at Central. Where did you get this info?

 

[OmniCity999]

So thats all the Longstone & Marine ones then 701 is gone already and 702-766 are all at Marine/Longstone with 767 upwards at Central. Where did you get this info?

Well the new ADL 100 seaters are going to Central. So central will lose all of its B7's not Marine or Longstone.

Theres no reason they will be removed from service in numerical order, in fact they probably wont, it comes down to many different factors, mileage, repairs, upkeep and their current state.

In fact, what will probably happen is central will lose its stock of B7's and they will replace older more tired buses at longstone and marine.

A close family friend is a senior in Lothians engineering department.

701 is still in the Lothian fleet. It hasn't been sold.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Well the new ADL 100 seaters are going to Central. So central will lose all of its B7's not Marine or Longstone.

Theres no reason they will be removed from service in numerical order, in fact they probably wont, it comes down to many different factors, mileage, repairs, upkeep and their current state.

In fact, what will probably happen is central will lose its stock of B7's and they will replace older more tired buses at longstone and marine.

A close family friend is a senior in Lothians engineering department.

701 is still in the Lothian fleet. It hasn't been sold.

Is 701 entering service in its playing cards livery? Also i reckoned back when i seen the E400XLB going to Central i reckoned they would replace whats at Central. Anyway Central have 52 B7s so 65 would mean from other depots. Also looks like 725 might be away for repaint

 

[OmniCity999]

Apologies, what I meant say is what you said above, their going to start with Centrals B7's and move on to other depots.

More new stuff due soon after the 100 seaters start service!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Apologies, what I meant say is what you said above, their going to start with Centrals B7's and move on to other depots.

More new stuff due soon after the 100 seaters start service!

Ok cheers for the info. Glad to see the 55s staying on longer as they're my favourite batch, 708 being my favourite bus of all time. Any idea what the new stuff is?

 

[VioletEclipse]

I went on 702 today as it's currently the oldest Gemini in service (also happens to be my favourite Gemini) and I'm glad I did, for it might be withdrawn soonish I think.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

I went on 702 today as it's currently the oldest Gemini in service (also happens to be my favourite Gemini) and I'm glad I did, for it might be withdrawn soonish I think.

I would think so. Trident 700 on the East Bound x44 this evening. Definitely not long left now for these vehicles.

 

[Darklord8899]

..... I was at the Western General today and spotted an all white single decker on the 38 (sadly was too far away to catch number)
It had "Lothian" vinyls - first time I had seen an all white single decker...

 

[OmniCity999]

..... I was at the Western General today and spotted an all white single decker on the 38 (sadly was too far away to catch number)
It had "Lothian" vinyls - first time I had seen an all white single decker...

This is 124 which was previously on loan to an Edinbutgh Aiport parking firm following one of their citaros being obliterated by a tram.

 

[VioletEclipse]

This is 124 which was previously on loan to an Edinbutgh Aiport parking firm following one of their citaros being obliterated by a tram.

Yeah it's on service 38 today. Either it's a one off or it's back at Longstone depot as an 'Albino bus' now.

 

[Darklord8899]

This is 124 which was previously on loan to an Edinbutgh Aiport parking firm following one of their citaros being obliterated by a tram.

Ouch yeah I remember seeing the pictures of the aftermath of that
That would explain it being all white

Yeah it's on service 38 today. Either it's a one off or it's back at Longstone depot as an 'Albino bus' now.

Thanks for the info both!

 

[OmniCity999]

124 is based at Longstone and will see service with Lothian country (as it did last week), Lothian, and possibly even East Coast.

Having non liveried vehicles comes in very handy. All these white buses we have just now may look drab and boring but they are very useful.

 

[Jordan Adam]

124 is based at Longstone and will see service with Lothian country (as it did last week), Lothian, and possibly even East Coast.

Having non liveried vehicles comes in very handy. All these white buses we have just now may look drab and boring but they are very useful.

I still want to raise the point though about how all the Lothian fans would come at First/Stagecoach's neck if they done something like that!

 

[overthewater]

I but there would be grumpy...

 

[OmniCity999]

I still want to raise the point though about how all the Lothian fans would come at First/Stagecoach's neck if they done something like that!

I tend to agree with you there. However, if you look at the overall condition at some of First's fleets, their unacceptable. A service run for pure profit to the point of greed with little care to the clientele.

Vehicles with mismatched panels, dents, scrapes, with much of their fleet in their 15-20th year of operation.

This isn't the place to compare companies and slander them, I genuinely believe first do a great job in certain areas. However, the reason for Lothian having all over white vehicles is so that it can work for any of the subsidiaries / brands.

Chances are the reason for First doing similar would probably be laziness or cost crunching.

The reason I leave Stagecoach out of the equation is because their fleets are generally in a far superior condition than firsts.

 

[LiviCrazy]

I tend to agree with you there. However, if you look at the overall condition at some of First's fleets, their unacceptable. A service run for pure profit to the point of greed with little care to the clientele.

Vehicles with mismatched panels, dents, scrapes, with much of their fleet in their 15-20th year of operation.

This isn't the place to compare companies and slander them, I genuinely believe first do a great job in certain areas. However, the reason for Lothian having all over white vehicles is so that it can work for any of the subsidiaries / brands.

Chances are the reason for First doing similar would probably be laziness or cost crunching.

The reason I leave Stagecoach out of the equation is because their fleets are generally in a far superior condition than firsts.

I live in West Lothian but spend a lot of time in Edinburgh and frequently in Fife too. I would therefore disagree with both your points.

Certainly in West Lothian, First has the newer fleet and from what I can see as a passenger it is in better condition. Lothian Country are running generally older buses though try to hide it with Irish plates.

I partially agree with you with Stagecoach. Their Coach fleet is excellent and incredibly modern and in many ways quite innovative (low floor coaches) however when I’ve visited the Dunfermline area their bus fleet is very poor and run down, with some very old double deckers running around. They also seem to have a lot of cosmetic damage to the outside of their vehicles.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I tend to agree with you there. However, if you look at the overall condition at some of First's fleets, their unacceptable. A service run for pure profit to the point of greed with little care to the clientele.

Vehicles with mismatched panels, dents, scrapes, with much of their fleet in their 15-20th year of operation.

This isn't the place to compare companies and slander them, I genuinely believe first do a great job in certain areas. However, the reason for Lothian having all over white vehicles is so that it can work for any of the subsidiaries / brands.

Chances are the reason for First doing similar would probably be laziness or cost crunching.

The reason I leave Stagecoach out of the equation is because their fleets are generally in a far superior condition than firsts.

Lol, No. I'm not saying First have better or worse maintenance, however to say Stagecoach's maintenance is superior is stretching it quite a bit!

Isn't the whole point of Lothian doing this also "cost crunching".

I partially agree with you with Stagecoach. Their Coach fleet is excellent and incredibly modern and in many ways quite innovative (low floor coaches) however when I’ve visited the Dunfermline area their bus fleet is very poor and run down, with some very old double deckers running around. They also seem to have a lot of cosmetic damage to the outside of their vehicles.

Take it you don't live on a route operated by B9Rs? The 35 between Aberdeen and Elgin is often penned "Scotlands Most Unreliable Bus Route" due to the sheer volume of breakdowns.
Most B7R/Profiles have been run in to the ground and are withdrawn on the basis of when their engines finally decide to pack in after spending years of being abused, They've already scrapped 09 plates! Most leak like sieves and have dodgy interior repairs too.
Until very recently a high number of B10M Coaches with interiors damp, heaters stuck on the hottest setting and covered in mould were in service. Currently Aviemore are using a N reg manual B10M acquired from D&E Coaches in public service.
I-Shift B11Rs constantly limp whenever it gets slightly cold
The older Panthers in general are also pretty run down.

Anyway this has veered far too off topic!

 

[overthewater]

Versa are dire, and need scrapping but there is nothing to replace them with, while the Tridents well there all interworked with school contracts, I wouldn't waste money on them either.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Versa are dire, and need scrapping but there is nothing to replace them with, while the Tridents well there all interworked with school contracts, I wouldn't waste money on them either.

The Versa's were bloody fantastic in their JET727 days! Speedy little things that proved reliable. I wouldn't think they're at all suited to out of city work though!

 

[overthewater]

The Versa's were bloody fantastic in their JET727 days! Speedy little things that proved reliable. I wouldn't think they're at all suited to out of city work though!

There were crap when there first appeared on the 747, and no one linked them... when some were transfer to the X53 there did alright however the public complained about them not being coaches, now coaches turned up people complain there not low floor, stupid passengers....

I do know Versa were in a awful state during the summer, engines going bang, and making buses operate 15mins late, travel up hills where public could and were walking up faster on said hills... falling to bits... some money has been spent. A few were pulled off the road when some higher up people went looking.

Mind you some of the stock at livingston used to made you really wonder what the hell, like the floors moving one way while the bus turns another..