Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Jordan Adam]

Probably someone sitting at a desk with no actual idea of the real world....

Wouldn't surprise me. Probably the same person who thought getting rigid tag axles on them was a good idea!

 

[alchemy]

Given all the prophets of doom, the triaxles seem to have integrated very well into the system and have been used on a variety of services outwith 7, 11 and 16

 

[Jordan Adam]

Given all the prophets of doom, the triaxles seem to have integrated very well into the system and have been used on a variety of services outwith 7, 11 and 16

They've just not integrated well with Stanley Road! As was expected....

 

[alchemy]

Poor public parking is being cited and the picture used is a Gemini

 

[Jordan Adam]

Poor public parking is being cited

Of course they would claim that, however even without parked cars you cannot pass two Enviro400XLB's at those junctions.

 

[alchemy]

Its members of the public who are complaining about the parking. Not the bus company but I'm saying no more on the matter.

 

[scotrail158713]

View attachment 64082

What will it take for Lothian to consider changing it? Presumably they’ve had hundreds of messages complaining about the overcrowding.
Passengers are partly to blame though. I’ve frequently sat at the back of a single decker with free seats around me and people stand at the front, even with the free seats. (I don’t think it’s anything to do with me though as I’ve had many strangers sit next to me on trains though ) This then makes other passengers getting on think there’s no spare seats, thereby increasing the number of standing passengers.
Also, does anyone know why deckers were taken off this route in the first place? I remember seeing a lot of services that were almost full as deckers, throughout the day, so changing back to singles didn’t seem to make any sense. I appreciate that there may be a logistical reason for it though.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

What will it take for Lothian to consider changing it? Presumably they’ve had hundreds of messages complaining about the overcrowding.
Passengers are partly to blame though. I’ve frequently sat at the back of a single decker with free seats around me and people stand at the front, even with the free seats. (I don’t think it’s anything to do with me though as I’ve had many strangers sit next to me on trains though ) This then makes other passengers getting on think there’s no spare seats, thereby increasing the number of standing passengers.
Also, does anyone know why deckers were taken off this route in the first place? I remember seeing a lot of services that were almost full as deckers, throughout the day, so changing back to singles didn’t seem to make any sense. I appreciate that there may be a logistical reason for it though.

It was taken off so the 21 can be a double decker route full time, if I recall the 49 decreased in frequency at the same time that happened? might of been before it was extended to the fort though! i think it’s stupid how they still think single deckers are suited for that route especially since unlike the X7/30/38 which can’t be double deckers for a good reason, the 49 doesn’t have one.

Most of the heavy loadings come from the hospital which admittedly another reason why I think the 300 should be extended down to the RIE, since it mirrors the 49 route between Cameron Toll and Surgeons Hall it could potentially take off passengers between those point and make a little more space since I highly doubt we’ll see a double 49 unless it’s the Edinburgh festival..

 

[scotrail158713]

It was taken off so the 21 can be a double decker route full time, if I recall the 49 decreased in frequency at the same time that happened?

Apologies if I’m being a bit simplistic , but surely 2 busy routes are better served with 1/2 the services being deckers and 1/2 the services being singles.
Unless of course Lothian have a secret plan to ditch the 49, but they can’t do it outright so they’re making it as torturous as possible to reduce passenger numbers enough that they can then say that it isn’t a viable route anymore.

might of been before it was extended to the fort though!

The deckers definitely ran to the Fort initially. I can’t quite remember when they were stopped though.

 

[90019]

Of course they would claim that, however even without parked cars you cannot pass two Enviro400XLB's at those junctions.

You can pretty easily, I've done so plenty of times.

 

[buslad1988]

Apologies if I’m being a bit simplistic , but surely 2 busy routes are better served with 1/2 the services being deckers and 1/2 the services being singles.
Unless of course Lothian have a secret plan to ditch the 49, but they can’t do it outright so they’re making it as torturous as possible to reduce passenger numbers enough that they can then say that it isn’t a viable route anymore.


The deckers definitely ran to the Fort initially. I can’t quite remember when they were stopped though.

49’s were switched to single deck at the same time the 21 went to full time double deck and the 39/40 became the 139/140 at East Coast Buses - this was so there was still enough work for single deck drivers at Marine.

Otherwise by removing all 21’s, 39’s and 40’s they’d of no longer been requiring a substantial number of single deck drivers at Marine.

A lot of people seem to think it’s simply about putting what doubles and singles they like wherever they fancy but it’s very important they keep the balance right in terms of numbers of drivers.

 

[overthewater]

Surly the 48 will become singles?

Any other company would not have this bizzare system in place of having two different types.

 

[CM]

49’s were switched to single deck at the same time the 21 went to full time double deck and the 39/40 became the 139/140 at East Coast Buses - this was so there was still enough work for single deck drivers at Marine.

Otherwise by removing all 21’s, 39’s and 40’s they’d of no longer been requiring a substantial number of single deck drivers at Marine.

A lot of people seem to think it’s simply about putting what doubles and singles they like wherever they fancy but it’s very important they keep the balance right in terms of numbers of drivers.

Perhaps then it's time Lothian did away with their archaic system of having seperate pay grades etc etc for Single and Double decker drivers, it's idiotic as at they end of the day, they all hold PCV license.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Perhaps then it's time Lothian did away with their archaic system of having seperate pay grades etc etc for Single and Double decker drivers, it's idiotic as at they end of the day, they all hold PCV license.

You are kidding me? They don't seriously pay different rates for driving a single and double decker. That's appalling.

Under no circumstances should two people at the same operator be getting paid different rates for doing the same job!

 

[CM]

You are kidding me? They don't seriously pay different rates for driving a single and double decker. That's appalling.

Under no circumstances should two people at the same operator be getting paid different rates for doing the same job!

AFAIK when you start at Lothian as a new driver, you get put on single deck only duties, then after so long you get "promoted" to double deck duties. No doubt someone with more knowledge about it will clarify.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

You are kidding me? They don't seriously pay different rates for driving a single and double decker. That's appalling.

Under no circumstances should two people at the same operator be getting paid different rates for doing the same job!

Yes that's correct Colin & Jordan, I have always had an issue with this, at lunch times you generally found that single drivers at one table, doubles at another, it was a bad place for being cliché.

The hourly rate to both is the same, £11.57 when I was there, drivers regardless of rota come out with similar wages anyways but the way in which it's worked for differs.

A 12 hour shift to a single deck driver including 2 hours of breaks would only get 10hrs pay as the break was not payed.

The double-decker rotas payed 10 hours and you were only there for 10 hours including payed breaks within that 10 hours etc, including the extra time to walk to change-over points as well etc, extra allowance of some other kinds as well were on double decker contracts.

Essentially there payed the same but you generally have a longer day on single deck rotas.

 

[156478]

You are kidding me? They don't seriously pay different rates for driving a single and double decker. That's appalling.

Under no circumstances should two people at the same operator be getting paid different rates for doing the same job!

They certainly do pay them differently.

This probably will doom the 30 and 49 to be single deck for a long time. As making them Double will displace a lot of Single decker drivers to not a lot of work and cost them more to resource due to the differences in conditions.

 

[GusB]

You are kidding me? They don't seriously pay different rates for driving a single and double decker. That's appalling.

Under no circumstances should two people at the same operator be getting paid different rates for doing the same job!

If I recall correctly, we had similar issues in the early years of privatisation with companies trying to pay "minibus" rates. Because driving a smaller bus means you don't need to be paid as much, right...?
(I would argue that any driver subjected to something as horrendous as a Dodge S56 should have required a premium over the standard rate, but this is well o/t)

 

[Jordan Adam]

If I recall correctly, we had similar issues in the early years of privatisation with companies trying to pay "minibus" rates. Because driving a smaller bus means you don't need to be paid as much, right...?
(I would argue that any driver subjected to something as horrendous as a Dodge S56 should have required a premium over the standard rate, but this is well o/t)

At the end of the day it's the same job regardless of vehicle type. Driving passengers from A to B while sticking to a timetable and and keeping that greenroad traffic light in the ̶r̶̶e̶̶d̶ green.

 

[Volvodart]

Lothian Buses accused of ‘infantile’ private number plates prank on city rivals.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....ber-plates-targeted-at-their-rivals-1-4941892

Why did Lothian Buses give their coaches number plates targeted at their rivals?

IAN SWANSON
Email
Published: 06:00
Thursday 06 June 2019


LOTHIAN Buses have been accused of splashing out public cash to fit their tour coaches with personalised number plates targeted at rival operators.

The council-owned company launched Lothian Motorcoaches a year ago, offering day trips to other parts of Scotland and prompting complaints of unfair competition from established private tour firms.
Now one of the Lothian coaches has been re-registered with the number LC19 AAA - seen as a dig at AAA Coaches, who have numbers ending AAA on all their vehicles; another coach has been given the plate LC19 RAB - taken as a reference to Rabbie’s Trailburners; and a third is understood to have the letters VOY - spelling out the name of the husband and wife team June and Gary Voy who founded Timberbush Tours 20 years ago.
One industry source estimated Lothian must have spent up to £700 on each bus to give them new numbers.
Rabbie’s chief executive Robin Worsnop has written to council chiefs claiming the move is the latest example of bullying and intimidation by Lothian Buses.
He told them: “It has already been brought to your attention by private sector operators some of the bullying and intimidating tactics used by Lothian Buses staff at various bus stands across Edinburgh.
“It is clear that the deployment of these number plates by Lothian Motorcoaches is intended to intimidate two of the private sector operators who dared to exercise their democratic rights to make a complaint.
“What does it say about the culture and governance of Lothian Buses that they have the time, inclination and money to buy these number plates, re-register the buses with VOSA and the DVLA, and recalibrate the tachographs? All monies that could have been released back to the citizens of Edinburgh in dividend payments.”
The row comes as Lothian Buses is engaged in bus wars on two fronts - one with First Bus, including over open-top sightseeing tours, the other with day tour operators like AAA and Rabbie’s.
Tory councillor John McLellan said there was concern about Lothian Motorcoaches entering a commercial market where there were well-established smaller operators.
“If this has been done to rub their noses in it, that’s unacceptable,” he said.
“To all intents and purposes this is public money and as such it seems to be a needless expense. If it’s true that this has been done as some kind of prank or jibe at commercial operators then it’s both inappropriate and infantile. Lothian Buses need to explain what’s going on here.”
And he said he expected the Lothian Buses board would want to take up the issue.
“It’s reasonable to expect the bus” company to be managed with due decorum.”
A Lothian Buses spokeswoman said the company had decided not to comment.
A council spokeswoman confirmed the letter from Mr Worsnop had been received.

 

[ChrisPJ]

Doesn’t look good - especially as the coaches in question are brand new and as such speak for themselves. They had already been registered on perfectly good 19 plates.

More free publicity, though!!

 

[Auld reekie]

Lothian Buses accused of ‘infantile’ private number plates prank on city rivals.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....ber-plates-targeted-at-their-rivals-1-4941892

It’s laughable as Richard Hall got a driver sacked for mocking him.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

There are 4 B8's running on the 31 today.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Lothian Buses accused of ‘infantile’ private number plates prank on city rivals.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....ber-plates-targeted-at-their-rivals-1-4941892

How petty, I though "Mr Hall & Co" were above that. Clearly Not... Rather hypocritical too!

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Its obvious what those plates were chosen for, its beginning to look like a petty game, not a good look

 

[tbtc]

Most of the heavy loadings come from the hospital which admittedly another reason why I think the 300 should be extended down to the RIE, since it mirrors the 49 route between Cameron Toll and Surgeons Hall it could potentially take off passengers between those point and make a little more space since I highly doubt we’ll see a double 49 unless it’s the Edinburgh festival..

It's strange how the capacity along Old Dalkeith Road into central Edinburgh is lower now than before the Hospital opened (given that the 33 was every ten minutes, there was five or six Mayfield bound SMT/First services with the 85/86, there were other services... now it just gets two services every twenty minutes, one of which is single deckers).

I know that there are other "Hospital" services into town but these take longer routes (via Moredun etc). Seems like one corridor someone could compete on, where Lothian are a little "light".

You can pretty easily, I've done so plenty of times.

Ah, but you've done this professionally, so your knowledge is nothing compared to people online complaining about how it can't be done

 

[overthewater]

It's strange how the capacity along Old Dalkeith Road into central Edinburgh is lower now than before the Hospital opened (given that the 33 was every ten minutes, there was five or six Mayfield bound SMT/First services with the 85/86, there were other services... now it just gets two services every twenty minutes, one of which is single deckers).

I know that there are other "Hospital" services into town but these take longer routes (via Moredun etc). Seems like one corridor someone could compete on, where Lothian are a little "light".

More to do with the fact the competition has gone.. heck even around Mid Lothian frequencies are overall lower.

 

[OmniCity999]

More to do with the fact the competition has gone.. heck even around Mid Lothian frequencies are overall lower.

Frequencies are lower because it works, if there was a need for a service every 5 minutes it'd be there but theres not so there isnt. It's not entirely about competition, its supply and demand. If First are to start a new service on the corridor it would be direct competition, not frequency enhancement.

More buses on the road isnt a good thing unless it's needed, its un needed congestion. Its about making a network thats good overall with links from different directions not 100% on one route.

 

[overthewater]

Frequencies are lower because it works, if there was a need for a service every 5 minutes it'd be there but theres not so there isnt. It's not entirely about competition, its supply and demand. If First are to start a new service on the corridor it would be direct competition, not frequency enhancement.

More buses on the road isnt a good thing unless it's needed, its un needed congestion. Its about making a network thats good overall with links from different directions not 100% on one route.

I love how Lothian people keep on coming up with odd reasons... Network is poorer overall since First has left, Lothian HAS cut back on all routes within Mid lothian.

This is even better: " its un needed congestion" how about reinstating the missing buses and try to get more car users into the buses?

 

[DunsBus]

I think the 14 and 33 will become shawfair routes in the future...
The 33 would obviously extend in beyond the P&R and the 14 from the Wisp side but I fear Danderhall will be forgotten about if this happens. Edmonstone Road is crying out for a bus route, simply too far from the main road.

X33 extension makes sense as it will cover the Bryans area with no extra resources and links nicely onto the off service route at the same time.

Lothian tried running a service to Edmonstone Road some years ago (82 then 49), following passenger requests. However, the passenger requests failed to translate into sufficient passenger numbers.