Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It is out on the 23 today but is not tracking on bustimes / LVF / EDB Transport Visualisation. It is currently on the turn ahead of 451 (SJ66 LPN)

That’s because it hasn’t got a tracker, so it won’t track on anything.

Other operators that have used it have had it tracking, but I believe most (if not all) were using Ticketer machines and thus it was much easier to set it up.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I was thinking that the "X20" could serve Forrester High school and the Napier campus and not extract passengers from the 22 which would continue to serve Broomhouse and Stenhouse where it gets a lot of its trade anyway.

I guess that could work! If the 300 was ever scrapped I could see it working, it could mirror the 35 route between sighthill and semple street then run to Waterloo Place!

Well, since the 63 operates, or did operate, at a 40 min frequency and the 43 at every 20 mins. In theory every second 43 could turn into a 63. (?)

It could work, plus it would offer forward travel to Kirkliston with no extra charge! But again best wait and see what happens

 

[computerSaysNo]

Is most of the trade on the 300 to/from the airport, or just within the city? If the latter then the airport section could be swapped with the run to Ratho (potentially with well-timed and well-publicised connections to/from the 400 at the Gyle)?
Although I don't know if the service from Ratho needs to be greater than hourly, and even if it doesn't, if the run to there would need more drivers/vehicles than the 300 uses currently.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Is most of the trade on the 300 to/from the airport, or just within the city? If the latter then the airport section could be swapped with the run to Ratho (potentially with well-timed and well-publicised connections to/from the 400 at the Gyle)?
Although I don't know if the service from Ratho needs to be greater than hourly, and even if it doesn't, if the run to there would need more drivers/vehicles than the 300 uses currently.

I think the link is vital, although maybe an alternate service could be made?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Is most of the trade on the 300 to/from the airport, or just within the city? If the latter then the airport section could be swapped with the run to Ratho (potentially with well-timed and well-publicised connections to/from the 400 at the Gyle)?
Although I don't know if the service from Ratho needs to be greater than hourly, and even if it doesn't, if the run to there would need more drivers/vehicles than the 300 uses currently.

Im not sure how popular the 300 is, though given its frequency and route years ago compared to now I can sense it’s less essential as the 35/400 replicate most of it, unless the extend it on the east section again it’s done for.

If LCB was to obtain the 20 hopefully it will still serve Ingilston P&R, because they could reroute the X18 to also serve it and have a perfectly timed journey to Continue into town, and with the 200 serving North Edinburgh and 400 serving South Edinburgh then we got better connecting services.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

If LCB was to obtain the 20 hopefully it will still serve Ingilston P&R, because they could reroute the X18 to also serve it and have a perfectly timed journey to Continue into town, and with the 200 serving North Edinburgh and 400 serving South Edinburgh then we got better connecting services.

I’d rather the X18 or 20 didn’t serve Ingliston P&R, especially the X18. Most connections are not to/from the Airport so simply changing at the Gogarburn A8 stops is the easiest thing to do. You therefore still have the connection but it doesn’t waste 3 or 4 minutes going into the Park & Ride. While we’re taking about Gogarburn, I wonder how many people actually use the X18 when it goes into the RBS site. Again I imagine the overall number travelling to the site by bus has lowered since the pandemic.

I don’t know how many times I’ve been on a 200, 300 or 400 and it’s actually picked somebody up in the Park & Ride, it’s not that common put it that way.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I’d rather the X18 or 20 didn’t serve Ingliston P&R, especially the X18. Most connections are not to/from the Airport so simply changing at the Gogarburn A8 stops is the easiest thing to do. You therefore still have the connection but it doesn’t waste 3 or 4 minutes going into the Park & Ride. While we’re taking about Gogarburn, I wonder how many people actually use the X18 when it goes into the RBS site. Again I imagine the overall number travelling to the site by bus has lowered since the pandemic.

I don’t know how many times I’ve been on a 200, 300 or 400 and it’s actually picked somebody up in the Park & Ride, it’s not that common put it that way.

I think the Skylink services need improvements that are point blank;

- Service 200

RBS Gogarburn cut from Off-Peak services?

- Service 300

Increase Frequency to 30 minutes
Extend service to Cameron Toll

- Service 400

Increase Peak frequency to 20 minutes (30min off-peak)
Extend to the main Fort Kinnaird Bus Stops

P&R is another debate because I don't think Lothian will remove it.

 

[Andyh82]

I’m not sure why people think Lothian will mess around with their commercial services to cover these routes that First are giving up. Surely it is the responsibility of the council to just retender them as they are?

 

[stantheman]

I have used the 63 many times and the Balerno/Currie section has been a benefit to the local area

Hardly any passengers on the many times I have seen it

 

[computerSaysNo]

I’m not sure why people think Lothian will mess around with their commercial services to cover these routes that First are giving up. Surely it is the responsibility of the council to just retender them as they are?

I think we're trying to think of ideas that would let Lothian bid for the contracts and run them with minimal additional resources (vehicles and drivers) by optimising and streamlining the new network.

 

[LiviCrazy]

I think we're trying to think of ideas that would let Lothian bid for the contracts and run them with minimal additional resources (vehicles and drivers) by optimising and streamlining the new network.

Wasn’t the 400 originally the council tendered 18?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think the Skylink services need improvements that are point blank;

- Service 200

RBS Gogarburn cut from Off-Peak services?

- Service 300

Increase Frequency to 30 minutes
Extend service to Cameron Toll

- Service 400

Increase Peak frequency to 20 minutes (30min off-peak)
Extend to the main Fort Kinnaird Bus Stops

P&R is another debate because I don't think Lothian will remove it.

I had no idea the 200 ran into RBS? i know the 300/400 used to run via it Monday-Friday pre-pandemic

The 300 being extended back through Newington would be amazing but if it was going to I’d say might aswell bring it out to Royal Infirmary, Cameron Toll is not the best terminus all things considered.

400 getting a frequency increase could work, it’s a popular service so it’s overdue one, not sure about it being extended though (I agree that it should) I just don’t think they will, might not be any room on top of the 30/49/106, maybe extend it to Newcraighill Station if anything?

Wasn’t the 400 originally the council tendered 18?

It was! i still remember when First Ran it during the day and weekends and Lothian had peak runs only, then when First withdrew from East Lothian (guessing thats where the 18 ran from) Lothian gained the 18 full time which I’m guessing helped boost passenger numbers and built up the extension to Fort Kinnaird and the Skylink revamp, amazing to think how big one service got over the years!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I had no idea the 200 ran into RBS?

It doesn’t. I’m not sure if it was a planned change before covid but I don’t think it’s ever ran into RBS.

 

[eh1]

Is most of the trade on the 300 to/from the airport, or just within the city? If the latter then the airport section could be swapped with the run to Ratho (potentially with well-timed and well-publicised connections to/from the 400 at the Gyle)?
Although I don't know if the service from Ratho needs to be greater than hourly, and even if it doesn't, if the run to there would need more drivers/vehicles than the 300 uses currently.

Having driven the 300s, I found them to be very quiet, on both occasions I picked up maybe one or two people from the airport max, most the traffic seems to be people heading into or out of town.

 

[Darklord8899]

I used the 300 regularly pre-pandemic...
my observations were around peak holiday times it was well used in general for the guest houses around Newington area and locals from Newington & Southside to Airport.

Between Chesser and Airport it was mainly Air Crews and workers I saw Airport bound, think mostly it was used by locals to South Gyle and Gyle Centre

It was also an extremely handy link from West Edinburgh to South Edinburgh (Southside, Newington, Cameron Toll) because it completely avoided all of Gorgie, Dalry, Haymarket, Princess Street and Bridges

(There were quite a few people like myself, that commute from West Edinburgh to Surgeon's Hall, Southside and Newington and whilst the early morning buses weren't rammed heading into city, they were surprisingly well used.


I'm not sure if things will ever return to pre-pandemic patterns, but I'd love for the 300 to return as before, but I'm not sure we are at that point now ‍*shrugs*

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The Service 400 is a very busy service everytime I've used and seen it.

 

[stevenedin]

The Service 400 is a very busy service everytime I've used and seen it.

Is it still a tendered service like the 18 used to be?

 

[computerSaysNo]

400 getting a frequency increase could work, it’s a popular service so it’s overdue one

Isn't it fine during the day when it's every half hour? I haven't used it for a long time (see below). It already seems to have lots of short journeys operating at peak times e.g. Gyle to Clovenstone.

Having driven the 300s, I found them to be very quiet, on both occasions I picked up maybe one or two people from the airport max, most the traffic seems to be people heading into or out of town.

I used the 300 regularly pre-pandemic...
my observations were around peak holiday times it was well used in general for the guest houses around Newington area and locals from Newington & Southside to Airport.

Between Chesser and Airport it was mainly Air Crews and workers I saw Airport bound, think mostly it was used by locals to South Gyle and Gyle Centre

It was also an extremely handy link from West Edinburgh to South Edinburgh (Southside, Newington, Cameron Toll) because it completely avoided all of Gorgie, Dalry, Haymarket, Princess Street and Bridges

(There were quite a few people like myself, that commute from West Edinburgh to Surgeon's Hall, Southside and Newington and whilst the early morning buses weren't rammed heading into city, they were surprisingly well used.


I'm not sure if things will ever return to pre-pandemic patterns, but I'd love for the 300 to return as before, but I'm not sure we are at that point now ‍*shrugs*

My experience of using the 300 pre-pandemic was similar in that around the Shandon/Fountainbridge/Old Town area it was busy, and seemed to be moderately well-loaded the rest of the route. I think the journey time from Newington, Old Town and Fountainbridge to the Airport is off-putting though, I remember it being significantly faster to take the 100 and change. I'm not sure what could be done to speed it up though, you could go down Broomhouse Road instead of Bankhead Avenue, and then you could stay on South Gyle Broadway all the way to the Gyle Centre instead of coming off and going round South Gyle Crescent, but I imagine those changes would only save a couple of minutes.

The Service 400 is a very busy service everytime I've used and seen it.

I intentionally avoid using it just because of the vehicles on it, I find the blue interior on those vehicles really horrible and far too bright, plus the shelf at the bottom of the windows upstairs is positioned in just the wrong place for me so I can never get comfortable in those seats.
A batch of B5/E400s for Skylink services would be ideal for me but I can't see it happening as there's really no issue with the present vehicles for the majority of people it seems.

Is it still a tendered service like the 18 used to be?

I wouldn't think so, if Lothian could find a way to make it work commercially then the Council would offload the full running costs to Lothian and stop subsidising it as soon as they could I would imagine.

 

[stevenedin]

I still can’t get used to it being numbered 400 now instead of 18 (I know it changed about 3-4 years ago or so). It was the same when the 35 was renumbered 300. I get why they did but it just doesn’t feel right with being an established route.

The 300 now would be better going to Fairmilehead via Tollcross, Bruntsfield and Morningside

 

[ScotRail158725]

Is it still a tendered service like the 18 used to be?

no, i believe it started running commercially with the april 2017 change when it went half hourly and extended to Fort Kinnaird

I still can’t get used to it being numbered 400 now instead of 18 (I know it changed about 3-4 years ago or so). It was the same when the 35 was renumbered 300. I get why they did but it just doesn’t feel right with being an established route.

The 300 now would be better going to Fairmilehead via Tollcross, Bruntsfield and Morningside

No it really wouldn’t

- Service 400

Increase Peak frequency to 20 minutes (30min off-peak)
Extend to the main Fort Kinnaird Bus Stops

P&R is another debate because I don't think Lothian will remove it.

The 400 is at its peak form imo. Extending it into Fort Kinnaird and would be a burden on reliability which is already a problem with the 400. The peak extras already make it near enough 20 minutes in the peak

 

[Darklord8899]

I still can’t get used to it being numbered 400 now instead of 18 (I know it changed about 3-4 years ago or so). It was the same when the 35 was renumbered 300. I get why they did but it just doesn’t feel right with being an established route.

The 300 now would be better going to Fairmilehead via Tollcross, Bruntsfield and Morningside

I could never get used to it being the 18!!

I (and anyone of my generation or older) will remember the 18 as running from Barnton to Birdiehouse !!

 

[Auld reekie]

I could never get used to it being the 18!!

I (and anyone of my generation or older) will remember the 18 as running from Barnton to Birdiehouse !!

That’s certainly a blast from the past.

 

[duncanp]

I could never get used to it being the 18!!

I (and anyone of my generation or older) will remember the 18 as running from Barnton to Birdiehouse !!

I can remember that version of the no.18, which started out as a replacement for a tram route (from Newington to Waverley via The Meadows, Tollcross and Lothian Road) that was withdrawn in 1950.

 

[DunsBus]

I can remember that version of the no.18, which started out as a replacement for a tram route (from Newington to Waverley via The Meadows, Tollcross and Lothian Road) that was withdrawn in 1950.

I remember it linked with service 41 at Barnton, then after deregulation the two services were linked at Cramond. It also served March Road and, at nights and on Sundays, diverted via Marchmont to cover part of the 24/29.

 

[stevenedin]

It’s nice to see that some of Lothian’s buses have the LEZ zone stickers on the back with a tick. I can’t remember what it said but something like LEZ ready and then a tick.

 

[Bus9120UK]

It’s nice to see that some of Lothian’s buses have the LEZ zone stickers on the back with a tick. I can’t remember what it said but something like LEZ ready and then a tick.

(image displays said LEZ zone stickers)

I'm not a fan of them, to be honest.

 

[stevenedin]

View attachment 118359 (image displays said LEZ zone stickers)

I'm not a fan of them, to be honest.

Thanks that’s the one. I think for me it’s just that they are gold and looks nice (in my opinion) I also felt the same when they added the Transport for Edinburgh stickers on the side

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Thanks that’s the one. I think for me it’s just that they are gold and looks nice (in my opinion) I also felt the same when they added the Transport for Edinburgh stickers on the side

The gold is the standard detailing colour for the Lothian Brand though, and I do think Lothian are trying too hard with this Low Emission Zone Tick sticker, as everyone knows that the whole fleet can go inside the low emission zone.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The gold is the standard detailing colour for the Lothian Brand though, and I do think Lothian are trying too hard with this Low Emission Zone Tick sticker, as everyone knows that the whole fleet can go inside the low emission zone.

I wouldn't imagine that any of the general public know that. Fair enough, they probably don't care, but it's a little hint that might make people think "oh so the local buses are all low-emission, I might make a slight effort to use them instead of driving every once in a while". Even if that takes 0.1% of cars off the road, it's got to be a good thing.

 

[ScotRail158725]

The gold is the standard detailing colour for the Lothian Brand though, and I do think Lothian are trying too hard with this Low Emission Zone Tick sticker, as everyone knows that the whole fleet can go inside the low emission zone.

I’d struggle to find 5 people that know that

I wouldn't imagine that any of the general public know that. Fair enough, they probably don't care, but it's a little hint that might make people think "oh so the local buses are all low-emission, I might make a slight effort to use them instead of driving every once in a while". Even if that takes 0.1% of cars off the road, it's got to be a good thing.

Hit the nail on the head