Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[danielhogg2005]

Weren't 217 and 218 sold to the open top tours in Scarborough, I remember seeing them there in the summer because they still maintained the livery just with the lothain logo half taken off.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Weren't 217 and 218 sold to the open top tours in Scarborough, I remember seeing them there in the summer because they still maintained the livery just with the lothain logo half taken off.

That's correct. I saw them when I visited in Scarborough last July. It was great to see them, and brought back memories from sometime 2018 (I think) when two passed me off service in Drum Brae before I was aware they were repainted.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Which depot is it that controls diversions?

Ended up on the most absurd diversion last night on the X28 due to an accident at Addiston Bridge.

Rather than going via A70 Currie and Balerno (as suggested by several passengers) or following the route of the 40 (which is suitable for double deckers having been the diversion for the buses a few years back when Addiston Bridge was closed) the depot told the driver to go via the A8 all the way to Livingston then back along the A71 to Kirknewton. More than doubled the journey length, seemed that the depot didn’t have much knowledge of local roads. I know the road conditions weren’t great which I guess may have factored into a decision?

Also, what’s the reasons behind Lothian not allowing drivers to reverse without a guide? That I’m aware of First never had that policy (my main comparator in the area), used to be fairly common in Kirknewton for First buses (when the 23 went that way) to have to reverse or get out and guide the LCB back.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’m not sure who’s been making the cancellation decisions either. There was a 60 minute gap on the 14’s from Muirhouse yesterday between 16:16-17:16. Add to that the bus after that was only running to Elm Row meaning that there was no full journey for 80 minutes. This is how it ended up looking:

16:16 - ran in full Muirhouse to Greendykes
16:36 - ran Elm Row to Greendykes only
16:56 - ran Elm Row to Greendykes only
17:16 - ran Muirhouse to Elm Row only
17:36 - ran in full Muirhouse to Greendykes

These cancellations are getting worse every week and I can’t see this timetable lasting much longer to be honest.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I don't want to upset any hard-working Lothian staff in here as the situation is not your fault but I have this week's written to the traffic commissioner expressing my concern that Lothian buses seemed to be most incapable of posting about cancellations, short journeys, part routes and heavy delays on their feeds and websites. If First Bus can manage this in some form or another then why not Lothian? If they are concerned about reputational damage they are doing more by frustrating passengers who are standing literally in the cold at the moment waiting for services that have been cancelled but who have not been told about the cancellation.

I am sure that many overworked bus drivers would be glad to not have to face a volley of abuse as the company's representative when finally pulling up at a stop that hasn't seen a service for maybe an hour like many stops will have done on the 14 in north west Edinburgh yesterday as shown above.

 

[eh1]

Cancellations maybe short term / last minute. If a driver is late off a bus and needs to take their (legal) 30 minute break it has a domino affect and may lead to missing journeys. Shifts are pre-made, so cancellations aren't planned to be at certain frequencies, it just depends what is and isn't covered.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Cancellations maybe short term / last minute. If a driver is late off a bus and needs to take their (legal) 30 minute break it has a domino affect and may lead to missing journeys. Shifts are pre-made, so cancellations aren't planned to be at certain frequencies, it just depends what is and isn't covered.

Regardless of this though a 60/80 minute gap like that is not acceptable at any date/time on a route that’s supposed to be every 20 minutes. I hate to say it but I fear the Traffic Commissioner is likely to get involved if this keeps up as Lothian have been by far one of the worst at handling this whole situation.

It’s even worse at ECB. The other week there was no X7 or 113 for 3 hours on a Sunday. That’s just not good enough.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Which depot is it that controls diversions?

Ended up on the most absurd diversion last night on the X28 due to an accident at Addiston Bridge.

Rather than going via A70 Currie and Balerno (as suggested by several passengers) or following the route of the 40 (which is suitable for double deckers having been the diversion for the buses a few years back when Addiston Bridge was closed) the depot told the driver to go via the A8 all the way to Livingston then back along the A71 to Kirknewton. More than doubled the journey length, seemed that the depot didn’t have much knowledge of local roads. I know the road conditions weren’t great which I guess may have factored into a decision?

Also, what’s the reasons behind Lothian not allowing drivers to reverse without a guide? That I’m aware of First never had that policy (my main comparator in the area), used to be fairly common in Kirknewton for First buses (when the 23 went that way) to have to reverse or get out and guide the LCB back.

I'd agree with route knowledge and weather conditions being a reason for not using the Lang Whang out of Balerno. It can be particularly tricky west of the Bridge Road junction and isn't a great route to negotiate with a double deck vehicle at the best of times. Knowing the roads myself I'd probably have erred on the cautious side and recommended using the A8 too even if timekeeping took a hit.

Others will know better than me but I would be surprised if reversing without a banksman is an immediately sackable offence at Lothian. I've witnessed it being done plenty times. But I could imagine it's against recommendations. Again, if something goes wrong during a reverse and it emerges the driver had just chosen to reverse without a guide for their own convenience they may end up in trouble.

 

[alexf380]

Which depot is it that controls diversions?

Also, what’s the reasons behind Lothian not allowing drivers to reverse without a guide? That I’m aware of First never had that policy (my main comparator in the area), used to be fairly common in Kirknewton for First buses (when the 23 went that way) to have to reverse or get out and guide the LCB back.

It's the control room at Central garage normally.

Others will know better than me but I would be surprised if reversing without a banksman is an immediately sackable offence at Lothian. I've witnessed it being done plenty times. But I could imagine it's against recommendations. Again, if something goes wrong during a reverse and it emerges the driver had just chosen to reverse without a guide for their own convenience they may end up in trouble.

It's definitely a disciplinary, going against company policy and all that.

 

[stevenedin]

I don't want to upset any hard-working Lothian staff in here as the situation is not your fault but I have this week's written to the traffic commissioner expressing my concern that Lothian buses seemed to be most incapable of posting about cancellations, short journeys, part routes and heavy delays on their feeds and websites. If First Bus can manage this in some form or another then why not Lothian? If they are concerned about reputational damage they are doing more by frustrating passengers who are standing literally in the cold at the moment waiting for services that have been cancelled but who have not been told about the cancellation.

I am sure that many overworked bus drivers would be glad to not have to face a volley of abuse as the company's representative when finally pulling up at a stop that hasn't seen a service for maybe an hour like many stops will have done on the 14 in north west Edinburgh yesterday as shown above.

I don’t blame you to be honest. I’ve never seen it so bad before. The drivers are great when the buses turn up but the service is shocking at times.

The app regularly changes from showing the buses on the tracker to suddenly no scheduled departures, the website and app show no list of cancellations and all the management do is blame the public for getting frustrated.

They can’t even just accept it’s bad and apologise and be upfront with people about what they can and can’t run. I know that they don’t always know straight away but when they do publishing a list of services not running or cut short would be a big help to people. Also update the app to reflect the changes.

I just hope that Lothian can get back to providing a good service again in the near future. I know that they are trying but some things need to be better.

 

[stan68]

219 seen on Shandwick place just now (sorry about the terrible quality of the photo). Had no idea this was still knocking about!

View attachment 124950

I believe one was bought by Shoreline Suncruisers of Scarborough for their seafront service, yes.

 

[muffy]

I'd agree with route knowledge and weather conditions being a reason for not using the Lang Whang out of Balerno. It can be particularly tricky west of the Bridge Road junction and isn't a great route to negotiate with a double deck vehicle at the best of times. Knowing the roads myself I'd probably have erred on the cautious side and recommended using the A8 too even if timekeeping took a hit.

I would agree that the road conditions around East Calder are still a little bit questionable with the cold snap and the A70 being at higher ground, so I can see why neither diversionary route was offered to the driver if nobody at Lothian has checked the route in advance. My query was why it never went M8 rather then A8.

 

[ACBest]

Odd question time - I’ve recently acquired a full set of destination blinds from one of the Volvo B7TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini vehicles which has departed for pastures new, and have spotted some route numbers on the displays for routes I can’t find any information on. Presumably some of them were never used, and were put there for ‘just in case’, but one in particular has caught my attention, which is route 109 - I’ve read the registration for it, and can see it was cancelled in 2019, but can’t find any timetable information anywhere for what it was or where it went, and looking at the web archive, it doesn’t appear it was ever advertised on Lothian’s website.

Does anyone have any information on this mystery route, and potentially any timetable info etc? Thanks!

 

[LiviCrazy]

I would agree with the road conditions around East Calder are still a little bit questionable with the cold snap and the A70 being at higher ground so can see why neither diversionary route was offered to the driver if nobody has checked the route in advance by Lothian. My query was why it never went M8 rather then A8.

The thing is though, the bus went up Gogar Station Road rather than back to the bypass. Given that’s just as windy and not much shorter than going along Gogar Bank and Ransfield Road and back down to Dalmahoy, I’m surprised they decided that was fine but the other wasn’t, especially given another bus company (Horsburgh) would have had buses along that stretch several times that day. Or alternatively could it not have gone through Ratho Station/Ratho down to Dalmahoy, again which would have been getting used throughout the day by the 20.

I appreciate that this is just a forum and no one has the answers, it just felt unnecessary to do 17 miles to go just 4 miles.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2022 ==

Odd question time - I’ve recently acquired a full set of destination blinds from one of the Volvo B7TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini vehicles which has departed for pastures new, and have spotted some route numbers on the displays for routes I can’t find any information on. Presumably some of them were never used, and were put there for ‘just in case’, but one in particular has caught my attention, which is route 109 - I’ve read the registration for it, and can see it was cancelled in 2019, but can’t find any timetable information anywhere for what it was or where it went, and looking at the web archive, it doesn’t appear it was ever advertised on Lothian’s website.

Does anyone have any information on this mystery route, and potentially any timetable info etc? Thanks!

109 was the overnight service from Deans, Livingston to Longstone for drivers, thought publicly registered. West Lothian Council used to have the timetable in their Timetable Book.

 

[Darklord8899]

Odd question time - I’ve recently acquired a full set of destination blinds from one of the Volvo B7TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini vehicles which has departed for pastures new, and have spotted some route numbers on the displays for routes I can’t find any information on. Presumably some of them were never used, and were put there for ‘just in case’, but one in particular has caught my attention, which is route 109 - I’ve read the registration for it, and can see it was cancelled in 2019, but can’t find any timetable information anywhere for what it was or where it went, and looking at the web archive, it doesn’t appear it was ever advertised on Lothian’s website.

Does anyone have any information on this mystery route, and potentially any timetable info etc? Thanks!

The 109 was latterly a one bus, 3 round trip service, Longstone - Livingston Dean's- Longstone (ran between 3:30 and 6:30am(

IIRC before this it was the night service of the 9 that Lothian ran into Livingston (back when night buses were 101-106 weekends/201-205 weekdays)

It was an advertised service at one point but latterly I believe it was basically a driver shuttle

 

[Delenn]

I believe one was bought by Shoreline Suncruisers of Scarborough for their seafront service, yes.

Pretty sure it is still around Scarborough, mostly in the same colour scheme. Will keep an eye out.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Pretty sure it is still around Scarborough, mostly in the same colour scheme. Will keep an eye out.

I saw a few photos of one of them and they are in the same colour scheme. This was a month or so ago.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2022 ==

217 is seen below with a new number plate, taken in September this year.

Sun Cruisers L555 SSB

On Scarborough sea front service on 08-10-22 is Sun Cruisers L555 SSB former Lothian V516 ESC.

www.flickr.com

218 also had a similar fate, this photo being taken in November this year.

L444 SSB (V517 ESC) 10 11 22

Dennis Trident, Plaxton President operated by Shoreline Suncruisers.

www.flickr.com

 

[Bus9120UK]

1126 looks to be arriving at Central after well over a month (maybe 2?) off the road. It was repainted during this period but the colours are still unknown.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

1126 looks to be arriving at Central after well over a month (maybe 2?) off the road. It was repainted during this period but the colours are still unknown.

If it's going to central it will either be in Airlink or Lothian Standard. Airlink seems unlikely but if it does get the Airlink livery then it's almost confirmed that there will be no 2023 order for Airlink. Anything can happen though!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

If it's going to central it will either be in Airlink or Lothian Standard. Airlink seems unlikely but if it does get the Airlink livery then it's almost confirmed that there will be no 2023 order for Airlink. Anything can happen though!

Given how long it’s been at Seafield both before and after repaint I’d expect it to have received substantial changes along the lines of luggage rack removal or a wrap.

 

[stevenedin]

Maybe even new seats as well to match the standard XLBs

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Given how long it’s been at Seafield both before and after repaint I’d expect it to have received substantial changes along the lines of luggage rack removal or a wrap.

Why would they wrap a bus that has just been repainted?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Why would they wrap a bus that has just been repainted?

Because it could be a partial wrap that requires part paint. It’s happened before. Look at TB5/6.

 

[eh1]

According to the tracker 1126 is currently on an industrial estate in Livingston? It looks like it's at a DVSA test centre, could be to certify extra capacity if it has had extra seats added?

 

[Bus9120UK]

According to the tracker 1126 is currently on an industrial estate in Livingston? It looks like it's at a DVSA test centre, could be to certify extra capacity if it has had extra seats added?

496/7 also went to this location when they lost their racks so probably that's the case.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

According to the tracker 1126 is currently on an industrial estate in Livingston? It looks like it's at a DVSA test centre, could be to certify extra capacity if it has had extra seats added?

496/7 also went to this location when they lost their racks so probably that's the case.

I’m going to try and find it when it comes back. I think it’s quite likely now that it is in standard livery.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I’m going to try and find it when it comes back. I think it’s quite likely now that it is in standard livery.

It will be quite nice to see an Enviro400 XLB with "Lothian" logos instead of the accustomed "Lothian City" logos which is now only present on these buses. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this will be the first Enviro400 XLB to receive "Lothian" logos if it is indeed going into the City livery.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2022 ==

Quick Question, why is 1064 at Newbridge?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It will be quite nice to see an Enviro400 XLB with "Lothian" logos instead of the accustomed "Lothian City" logos which is now only present on these buses. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this will be the first Enviro400 XLB to receive "Lothian" logos if it is indeed going into the City livery.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2022 ==

Quick Question, why is 1064 at Newbridge?

It would be the first Standard liveried one to have received them yes; that’s if it is in the livery, which seems very likely.

1064 looks to be getting used by Lothian Motorcoaches on a Stirling University shuttle.

178-180, 183 are en route to Seafield by the looks of it too.

 

[Jordan1296]

I don’t blame you to be honest. I’ve never seen it so bad before. The drivers are great when the buses turn up but the service is shocking at times.

The app regularly changes from showing the buses on the tracker to suddenly no scheduled departures, the website and app show no list of cancellations and all the management do is blame the public for getting frustrated.

They can’t even just accept it’s bad and apologise and be upfront with people about what they can and can’t run. I know that they don’t always know straight away but when they do publishing a list of services not running or cut short would be a big help to people. Also update the app to reflect the changes.

I just hope that Lothian can get back to providing a good service again in the near future. I know that they are trying but some things need to be better.

Had a prime example of this a couple of weeks ago. Checked the app and there was a 7 due at Mortonhall at 1716. Great. Get to the bus stop at 1712 and electronic board says 20 minutes, with 37s due in 17 & 18 minutes, and a 47 due in 19 minutes. Most infuriating!

 

[Bus9120UK]

178-180, 183 are en route to Seafield by the looks of it too.

178 has moved into the section where buses are usually prepared for paint. Hopefully the future for these buses is promising. 181/2/4/9 are the next to head east.

@FlybeDash8Q400 has spotted 1126 and it's in maroon with Lothiancitu branding. Completely updated interior.