Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[ScotRail158725]

What I mean is, are they good and comfortable in the people’s point of view?

No. They’re awful particularly 426-437

 

[CSB0241]

What I mean is, are they good and comfortable in the people’s point of view?

401-425 • my least favourite double decker bus
426-518, 1051-1062 • meh

 

[90019]

401-415 can be hit or miss, in my experience - they can be fairly comfortable as a passenger depending on what routes they're allocated to, and as a driver some of them actually drove fairly well, though the cab is a bit cramped.


426-437 are hateful things and belong in a scrapyard.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Is there any slack in the fleet to maybe allocate a few of the XLBs onto the 26 at certain times? Like summer Saturdays or during half-term? The 26 I was on today was extremely busy just after Edinburgh Zoo (it was an MMC). I've noticed the 26 at the Corstorphine end takes most of the slack as it is normally the first bus serving the smaller stops after a while as the 31 usually appears a few minutes after and runs half-empty. I don't really see many people using the X18 or the 100, as it's generally a faster journey for people heading into the City.

 

[goldisgood]

Is there any slack in the fleet to maybe allocate a few of the XLBs onto the 26 at certain times? Like summer Saturdays or during half-term? The 26 I was on today was extremely busy just after Edinburgh Zoo (it was an MMC). I've noticed the 26 at the Corstorphine end takes most of the slack as it is normally the first bus serving the smaller stops after a while as the 31 usually appears a few minutes after and runs half-empty. I don't really see many people using the X18 or the 100, as it's generally a faster journey for people heading into the City.

Not likely - the 31 definitely can't manage without them out to Bonnyrigg, and they're really needed on the 11 and 16 (althought the occasional shorter bus seems to just about manage). The 47 at the southern end I would say could manage without them, although I seem to recall being told that they're needed for Queensferry Road (even though the 41 it replaced here ran with shorter buses?). There's of course the issue with the 26 running out of Marine rather than Central where the XLBs are based, and possibly issues with running the XLBs from Marine? Unfortunately the capacity issues aren't exclusive to the 26, although it does seem one of the busiest from my observations.
I'm assuming there aren't any changes coming up? Bit of a shame that the changing bus patterns due to the tram don't seem to be taken into consideration when many of us are continually left behind at peak times due to overcrowding from Leith Walk to the Bridges... Appreciate nobody wants to see a reduction but it is frustrating seeing the 25 in particular running relatively empty most of the time!! Shame there aren't any longer wheelbase buses on order instead of the new electric buses, but also appreciate there doesn't seem to be a suitable electric bus with the capacity which would definitely be appreciated on many routes.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The 47 at the southern end I would say could manage without them, although I seem to recall being told that they're needed for Queensferry Road (even though the 41 it replaced here ran with shorter buses?).

That's one of the reasons for the changes to routes - to provide more capacity for the stretch to Cammo. I do hear that some are busy, but the main issue is that the 47 doesn't serve Princes Street so many still opt for the 43.

Also, relating to the changes to north ends of routes, I took a 22 home from Queensferry Street earlier (headed Westbound) and funnily enough the majority of the bus emptied at Queensferry Street, and then filled up again from Lothian Road...

 

[Scotrail314209]

Not likely - the 31 definitely can't manage without them out to Bonnyrigg, and they're really needed on the 11 and 16 (althought the occasional shorter bus seems to just about manage). The 47 at the southern end I would say could manage without them, although I seem to recall being told that they're needed for Queensferry Road (even though the 41 it replaced here ran with shorter buses?). There's of course the issue with the 26 running out of Marine rather than Central where the XLBs are based, and possibly issues with running the XLBs from Marine? Unfortunately the capacity issues aren't exclusive to the 26, although it does seem one of the busiest from my observations.
I'm assuming there aren't any changes coming up? Bit of a shame that the changing bus patterns due to the tram don't seem to be taken into consideration when many of us are continually left behind at peak times due to overcrowding from Leith Walk to the Bridges... Appreciate nobody wants to see a reduction but it is frustrating seeing the 25 in particular running relatively empty most of the time!! Shame there aren't any longer wheelbase buses on order instead of the new electric buses, but also appreciate there doesn't seem to be a suitable electric bus with the capacity which would definitely be appreciated on many routes.

That makes complete sense, thank you.

The situations that I had in mind were during the Summer holidays with everyone flocking to Portobello, or large groups of people visiting the Zoo. There’s been times when the top deck of a 26 has got completely full when a group of about 20 children have boarded.

The 26 must be one of the busiest routes in Edinburgh, no?

 

[stevenedin]

That makes complete sense, thank you.

The situations that I had in mind were during the Summer holidays with everyone flocking to Portobello, or large groups of people visiting the Zoo. There’s been times when the top deck of a 26 has got completely full when a group of about 20 children have boarded.

The 26 must be one of the busiest routes in Edinburgh, no?

At one point the 26 and 22 (before they butchered it) were the most frequent routes. I don’t know if this meant that they were the busiest but from observation, the 3, 7, 11, 16, 25, 26, 30, 31, 37, 43, 44, 47 & 100 are their busiest routes.

I could be wrong but this is from what I’ve seen.

 

[computerSaysNo]

At one point the 26 and 22 (before they butchered it) were the most frequent routes. I don’t know if this meant that they were the busiest but from observation, the 3, 7, 11, 16, 25, 26, 30, 31, 37, 43, 44, 47 & 100 are their busiest routes.

I could be wrong but this is from what I’ve seen.

A lot of the busier routes at Longstone ("LS") and Marine ("MA") seemed to be one frequency "step" ahead of the busiest routes at Central ("CE"), e.g. the 3 and 25 (both LS) and 26 (MA) were all every 10 minutes, but the 11 and 16 (both CE) were "only" every 12 minutes; I expect if the 11 and 16 were still being ran with normal-length buses then they would be every 10 minutes as well.

Actually I could make a chart of "seats per hour" for each route which would make comparison of existing capacity a lot easier. I won't have time to do that until Monday at the earliest though.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

No. They’re awful particularly 426-437

Just shows you how much opinions can differ. 401-425 are some of my favourites while 426-437 are actually my favourite buses now. I get told all the time drivers hate 426-437, but from a passengers perspective, they’re great. They’re not in your face, they’re fairly low key and I just think the refurbs on them work. It’s not so low key that they’re boring, but it’s just a nice ambience. They even ventured onto the 19 on Boxing Day which was like a belated Christmas present to me. They’d be perfect for the 19, PVR of 10 (11 if you include that run that goes on the 9) and there’s 12 of them. Would finally allow them to move the MMC’s somewhere different like the 21 or 49.

I would pick any Gemini3 B5TL over an MMC in a heartbeat, no matter how rattly it was. The MMC’s are bland, really noisy and are just very boring buses. Functional for the everyday user which is the important thing, but really boring for the enthusiast.

 

[stevenedin]

Just shows you how much opinions can differ. 401-425 are some of my favourites while 426-437 are actually my favourite buses now. I get told all the time drivers hate 426-437, but from a passengers perspective, they’re great. They’re not in your face, they’re fairly low key and I just think the refurbs on them work. It’s not so low key that they’re boring, but it’s just a nice ambience. They even ventured onto the 19 on Boxing Day which was like a belated Christmas present to me. They’d be perfect for the 19, PVR of 10 (11 if you include that run that goes on the 9) and there’s 12 of them. Would finally allow them to move the MMC’s somewhere different like the 21 or 49.

I would pick any Gemini3 B5TL over an MMC in a heartbeat, no matter how rattly it was. The MMC’s are bland, really noisy and are just very boring buses. Functional for the everyday user which is the important thing, but really boring for the enthusiast.

I find the opposite. I like 601-698. I think it could be that the seats on them are more comfortable despite looking cheap and that they have character in my opinion and usually have a lot of go in them.

I like 1068-1140 too they are one of my favourites they are so fast and powerful but my absolute favourites are 1000-1028, 1030-1050 and 1141-1153. Some are a bit glitchy now but I think that they have the nicest sounding engine noise out of the fleet.

I used to love 441-465 when new but I’m not feeling them anymore and I don’t know why. They are cosy buses.

Everyone has their own likes and dislikes

 

[Bus9120UK]

I find the opposite. I like 601-698. I think it could be that the seats on them are more comfortable despite looking cheap and that they have character in my opinion and usually have a lot of go in them.

I like 1068-1140 too they are one of my favourites they are so fast and powerful but my absolute favourites are 1000-1028, 1030-1050 and 1141-1153. Some are a bit glitchy now but I think that they have the nicest sounding engine noise out of the fleet.

I used to love 441-465 when new but I’m not feeling them anymore and I don’t know why. They are cosy buses.

Everyone has their own likes and dislikes

I agree about the seats on 601-698, in fact I don't think they look cheap at all. Perhaps cheaper yes, but it's the nicest looking and most comfortable bus seat on the market. The material looks luxurious. I had one go the wrong way once on Service 1 and the driver pushed it to its potential on West Approach Road which is where I recognised how good they can be. The one thing I would change is the AirCon. The ex-Londons I do like, but many have a squeaking rattle which is the one type of rattle I can't bare! The XLBs I honestly just wish were louder.

441-465 remain my favourite. It's mainly how well the interior compliments the brilliant sound. These factors are what got me interested in buses. The bodywork is really slick too, and I find them very comfortable. Most of them have quite a few rattles which is a shame as they had barely any when new albeit I dont actually mind them and admittedly sometimes find them relaxing... I was stuck with Gemini 2s 331-350 beforehand, but still had B9s on my local services 26, then 31, and often on the 1 around 2020/1. I'm not keen on the older Voith B9s now.

Ultimately though, these are just vehicles with the purpose of taking from people from A to B. If they are able to do that, which they are, I see no issue.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I find the opposite. I like 601-698. I think it could be that the seats on them are more comfortable despite looking cheap and that they have character in my opinion and usually have a lot of go in them.

I don’t like the smart seats at all. They do look very cheap and simple, but I guess that’s the whole point of them. It’s a slightly different and not shiny plastic which I think is the biggest issue. I personally don’t find them to be that comfortable and I would pick a Lazzerini high back over them every day.

A more wide and important issue that the mmc’s struggle with, announcements. No two buses are the same. Some don’t work at all, some are loud, some are quiet and most are different on each deck.

Granted it’s not Evora level of broken, but it’s still pretty bad. In fact, I’ve never seen an Evora with the announcements working at a normal pitch. The XLB’s don’t seem to have this problem (if they do it’s much less) which I then can’t understand why the mmc’s have such a big issue with them.

Going back to seats the worst in the fleet for me are those strange double front seats on the Evora’s and BYD E400EV’s. Absolutely horrible seats.

I like the ex London’s but they’re looking very tired now, both inside and out. 1050 is still my favourite of those, but I rarely get the chance to get on any now.

 

[stevenedin]

I don’t like the smart seats at all. They do look very cheap and simple, but I guess that’s the whole point of them. It’s a slightly different and not shiny plastic which I think is the biggest issue. I personally don’t find them to be that comfortable and I would pick a Lazzerini high back over them every day.

A more wide and important issue that the mmc’s struggle with, announcements. No two buses are the same. Some don’t work at all, some are loud, some are quiet and most are different on each deck.

Granted it’s not Evora level of broken, but it’s still pretty bad. In fact, I’ve never seen an Evora with the announcements working at a normal pitch. The XLB’s don’t seem to have this problem (if they do it’s much less) which I then can’t understand why the mmc’s have such a big issue with them.

Going back to seats the worst in the fleet for me are those strange double front seats on the Evora’s and BYD E400EV’s. Absolutely horrible seats.

I like the ex London’s but they’re looking very tired now, both inside and out. 1050 is still my favourite of those, but I rarely get the chance to get on any now.

I noticed the issue with announcements. Some are loud and some are too quiet to even hear them. I don’t know if it’s a driver issue. The same happens on trains and it’s annoying when you can barely hear them. My preference is always loud. If people are hard of hearing, how are they meant to be able to hear them? Not to mention the blind who rely on them to know which stop it is.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I don’t know if it’s a driver issue.

It's not to do with the drivers, it's the speakers.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The smart seats are just dreadful, I've been on other operators fleets where they've gone for double padding which make them a little better but still far from Great, the speakers on all of the MMC are just cheap nasty rubbish and this from someone who knows a lot about audio equipment and quality, they frequently break and often an entire deck will just not be working.

 

[Jordan1296]

At one point the 26 and 22 (before they butchered it) were the most frequent routes. I don’t know if this meant that they were the busiest but from observation, the 3, 7, 11, 16, 25, 26, 30, 31, 37, 43, 44, 47 & 100 are their busiest routes.

I could be wrong but this is from what I’ve seen.

The 7 between is quieter than the 37 & 47 that also operate at the southern end, from what I observed from my time living there.

 

[GusB]

Seat comfort is entirely subjective and no agreement will ever be reached about which one is the best. Not only that, it's distracting from the main thread topic. We've seen this in countless other threads in the rail sections of the forum, so we'll leave it there.

 

[paul47B]

Is there any slack in the fleet to maybe allocate a few of the XLBs onto the 26 at certain times? Like summer Saturdays or during half-term? The 26 I was on today was extremely busy just after Edinburgh Zoo (it was an MMC). I've noticed the 26 at the Corstorphine end takes most of the slack as it is normally the first bus serving the smaller stops after a while as the 31 usually appears a few minutes after and runs half-empty. I don't really see many people using the X18 or the 100, as it's generally a faster journey for people heading into the City.

I say split the XLB's across the 3 depots and have them on route 3, 11, 16 and 26. I am a regular user of the 47 on the southern end of the route. Yes this service is busy, but whenever a smaller bus is used, they cope fine with loadings. The 31 and 47 would work fine with the MMC buses. The XLB's would work well on the 3 and 26 with them having good acceleration.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I say split the XLB's across the 3 depots and have them on route 3, 11, 16 and 26. I am a regular user of the 47 on the southern end of the route. Yes this service is busy, but whenever a smaller bus is used, they cope fine with loadings. The 31 and 47 would work fine with the MMC buses. The XLB's would work well on the 3 and 26 with them having good acceleration.

The 31 most certainly would not. The 11, 16 and 31 would sturggle without XLBs

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I say split the XLB's across the 3 depots and have them on route 3, 11, 16 and 26. I am a regular user of the 47 on the southern end of the route. Yes this service is busy, but whenever a smaller bus is used, they cope fine with loadings. The 31 and 47 would work fine with the MMC buses. The XLB's would work well on the 3 and 26 with them having good acceleration.

I think the only hope we have for the Service 26 is a frequency increase (of an already frequent service). If that was to happen the route reliability would be even worse though and buses would be turning up in sixes.

 

[stevenedin]

I think the only hope we have for the Service 26 is a frequency increase (of an already frequent service). If that was to happen the route reliability would be even worse though and buses would be turning up in sixes.

Reminds me of the 22 when it used to be every 4 mins until 2009. You would get 3 buses in a row.

 

[CSB0241]

The 31 and 47 would work fine with the MMC buses.

The 31 most certainly would not.

Even at every 12 minutes, the 31 couldn’t cope with Gemini 3s & E400MMCs

 

[bobdoe]

Which bus used to serve Gogarloch / South Gyle Road? The satellite on Google Maps at 55.9358172,-3.2999745 shows the markings of a bus stop near the train station.

 

[stevenedin]

Which bus used to serve Gogarloch / South Gyle Road? The satellite on Google Maps at 55.9358172,-3.2999745 shows the markings of a bus stop near the train station.

That was a Leyland National bus route, I think. I can’t remember the route number.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Which bus used to serve Gogarloch / South Gyle Road? The satellite on Google Maps at 55.9358172,-3.2999745 shows the markings of a bus stop near the train station.

Waverley Travel 70.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Waverley Travel 70.

where did the 70 actually go? i remember seeing it on the stop flags at heriot watt and currie but other than that?

 

[bobdoe]

Waverley Travel 70.

Thanks!

where did the 70 actually go? i remember seeing it on the stop flags at heriot watt and currie but other than that?

"Balerno-Currie-Riccarton-Gyle. Shopping opportunities, mainly for elderly residents not on a bus route. One return journey Wednesday and Friday, two returns Saturday" 15 March 2016 Transport and Environment Committee meeting

A photo of the 70 bus https://www.flickr.com/photos/61391443@N02/27918059790/

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Thanks!

No bother. I think the 70 in turn replaced something else in the South Gyle area as well, so perhaps worth a look into?

 

[LBObserver]

No bother. I think the 70 in turn replaced something else in the South Gyle area as well, so perhaps worth a look into?

I think the original route was LRT 58, possibly at the same time running around the Calders. Around the same time as South Gyle Station opened maybe? Before Gyle Centre too. An early branding of MaxiTaxi if I remember correctly, similar to the 59 running around Musselburgh to the old Edenhall Hospital. Leyland Cubs, possibly based on Bathgate built truck chassis, with Duple bodywork and HSC-X registered (159-176). Similar style I suppose to the K reg Dennis Darts in the early 90s. This is all from memory which may be mistaken in places!