Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I think 191-193 are having mods of some kind. 191 appears to have been fitted with the new text-to-speech systems. I don’t remember these having screens previously but could be wrong.

191 currently out on the 120 has these, while it may explain the reason for 192 and 193 being there.

 

[FP transport v]

I think 191-193 are having mods of some kind. 191 appears to have been fitted with the new text-to-speech systems. I don’t remember these having screens previously but could be wrong.

191 currently out on the 120 has these, while it may explain the reason for 192 and 193 being there.

All 3 of them have had the text-to-speech systems since the changes so it's not that. I did however notice that on at least 191 and 192 that the AVL consoles were just on a blank screen with an error message in the centre rather than displaying the usual map and running times etc. so may have something to do with that.

 

[stevenedin]

849 now withdrawn and sat at Marine

 

[mb88]

With regards to the text-to-speech announcements, some of it seems a bit unnecessary to me. I mean the next stop announcements are fine but do we really need to hear ‘departure in 1 minute’, ‘departure imminent’ and ‘arrival at destination in XX minutes’? Not sure it needs to say ‘next stop’ every time either, surely just the name of the stop would suffice?

 

[VioletEclipse]

are 191-193 8.9m or 9.7m long?

 

[Bus9120UK]

are 191-193 8.9m or 9.7m long?

191/2 are 9.7m and 193 is 8.9m

 

[VioletEclipse]

191/2 are 9.7m and 193 is 8.9m

thanks! I honestly though they were completely identical, curious as to why eve chose to order two different lenths when all their services have fairly similar tight roads and low usage most of the time.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

thanks! I honestly though they were completely identical, curious as to why eve chose to order two different lenths when all their services have fairly similar tight roads and low usage most of the time.

The two bigger ones were ordered for use on both the 120 and 121 (alongside existing solos) while the smaller one was ordered specifically for the 123.

Speaking of the 123, an Eclipse3 on it today.

 

[VioletEclipse]

The two bigger ones were ordered for use on both the 120 and 121 (alongside existing solos) while the smaller one was ordered specifically for the 123.

Speaking of the 123, an Eclipse3 on it today.

there's also an Eclipse 3 on the 121 today, they must be really confident to use their long wheelbase 13.2m 100+ full capacity buses on the tight low usage rural routes, am imagining a day when 193 gets put on a rush X7 while an Eclipse 3 is on the 123. Hoping that route allocations don't get to that point.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

there's also an Eclipse 3 on the 121 today, they must be really confident to use their long wheelbase 13.2m 100+ full capacity buses on the tight low usage rural routes, am imagining a day when 193 gets put on a rush X7 while an Eclipse 3 is on the 123. Hoping that route allocations don't get to that point.

The 121 and 123 interwork. I was referring to the 123 as I would say out of the two routes, it’s the harder one.

Thankfully we definitely won’t see a double decker out on them (low bridge on 121).

 

[Edirim]

Working through the open data available so will edit this post in due course but for now:

Non School Mondays East Coast schedule notes:

X4 (PVR - Musselburgh: 5)
2 interwork onto 106's:
X4 ending Musselburgh 21:30 does 21:48 106 from Musselburgh and 22:25 return.
X4 starting Prestonpans 08:24 does the short 106 at 08:04 from Macmerry to Tranent before.

106 (PVR - Musselburgh:4, there is a 5th in afternoon)
2 inter work onto X6s:
106 ending Fort Kinnaird at 17:05 does 18:00 X6 hen 19:40 106 from Haddington.
afternoon extra: does 17:10 X6 then 18:45 106 from Haddington

X6 (PVR - Musselburgh: 3 in morning, 1 in afternoon, other 2 counted under 106)

113 (PVR - Musselburgh: 6) Note: 113 ending Haymarket 0012 does N107 at 0021

124 (PVR - 8, 4 Musselburgh, 4 North Berwick)

139 (PVR - Musselburgh: 1)

140 / 141 (PVR - Musselburgh: 5, there is a 6th in afternoon)
afternoon extra: does 16:25 from Penicuik and the 17:50 return only

X7 (PVR - 10, 4 Musselburgh, 1 North Berwick, 5 Dunbar, there is a morning and afternoon extra from Musselburgh)
All Musselburgh run off 107s with only 2 running back
morning X7 is a 106 at 07:14 before the 07:57 X7
afternoon X7 is the 17:20 from Edinburgh
North Berwick X7 starts 0729 at Dunbar, finishes 1741
2 Dunbar X7s work onto 107s

X5 (PVR - North Berwick:3)

120 (PVR - Dunbar: 2)

121 / 123 (PVR - Dunbar:2)

 

[Bus9120UK]

With regards to the text-to-speech announcements, some of it seems a bit unnecessary to me. I mean the next stop announcements are fine but do we really need to hear ‘departure in 1 minute’, ‘departure imminent’ and ‘arrival at destination in XX minutes’? Not sure it needs to say ‘next stop’ every time either, surely just the name of the stop would suffice?

I don't entirely disagree though I do not see why it shouldn't say 'next stop', it's a bit out of nowhere if it says the stop name alone I'd have thought?

Working through the open data available so will edit this post in due course but for now:

Non School Mondays East Coast schedule notes:

X4 (PVR - Musselburgh: 5)
2 interwork onto 106's:
X4 ending Musselburgh 21:30 does 21:48 106 from Musselburgh and 22:25 return.
X4 starting Prestonpans 08:24 does the short 106 at 08:04 from Macmerry to Tranent before.

106 (PVR - Musselburgh:4, there is a 5th in afternoon)
2 inter work onto X6s:
106 ending Fort Kinnaird at 17:05 does 18:00 X6 hen 19:40 106 from Haddington.
afternoon extra: does 17:10 X6 then 18:45 106 from Haddington

X6 (PVR - Musselburgh: 3 in morning, 1 in afternoon, other 2 counted under 106)

113 (PVR - Musselburgh: 6) Note: 113 ending Haymarket 0012 does N107 at 0021

124 (PVR - 8, 4 Musselburgh, 4 North Berwick)

139 (PVR - Musselburgh: 1)

140 / 141 (PVR - Musselburgh: 5, there is a 6th in afternoon)
afternoon extra: does 16:25 from Penicuik and the 17:50 return only

X7 (PVR - 10, 4 Musselburgh, 1 North Berwick, 5 Dunbar, there is a morning and afternoon extra from Musselburgh)
All Musselburgh run off 107s with only 2 running back
morning X7 is a 106 at 07:14 before the 07:57 X7
afternoon X7 is the 17:20 from Edinburgh
North Berwick X7 starts 0729 at Dunbar, finishes 1741
2 Dunbar X7s work onto 107s

X5 (PVR - North Berwick:3)

120 (PVR - Dunbar: 2)

121 / 123 (PVR - Dunbar:2)

Service 124 is now only 3 North Berwick, 5 Musselburgh. One bus finishes at North Berwick and runs light to Musselburgh.

When they return, the school services should be as followed:

125 and 127 do not interwork. Double decker 126 doesn't either, but the single decker forms an X5 for the remainder of the day. The double decker 128 should finish and then form the 8:49 124 from Musselburgh, although it is possible for this to return to the depot and be swapped to another vehicle.

In the afternoon, the 126 becomes an X6, 127 becomes the afternoon X7, and the 128 is followed by the additional bus on the 141. The 125 doesn't interwork here either.
Hence, only one additional bus needs to be added on, that being the bus to cover the 125.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Service 124 is now only 3 North Berwick, 5 Musselburgh. One bus finishes at North Berwick and runs light to Musselburgh.

There seems to be an inconsistent deadrun to/from North Berwick with the X5 as well. Hasn’t ran every day but often has gone from Musselburgh to North Berwick light in the morning, then at night it has gone back light to Musselburgh. Not sure why.

 

[FP transport v]

The 121 and 123 interwork. I was referring to the 123 as I would say out of the two routes, it’s the harder one.

Thankfully we definitely won’t see a double decker out on them (low bridge on 121).

While the 123 is probably harder overall, I'm very surprised that the Eclipse 3's can actually do the right hand turn from Station road onto Bridge street in East Linton. Having done the route in that direction twice now on a B7RLE eclipse 2, even they both times mounted the traffic island and made contact with the plastic arrows so I can't imagine what it's like in the eclipse 3's.

 

[megabusser]

I don't entirely disagree though I do not see why it shouldn't say 'next stop', it's a bit out of nowhere if it says the stop name alone I'd have thought?

Service 124 is now only 3 North Berwick, 5 Musselburgh. One bus finishes at North Berwick and runs light to Musselburgh.

When they return, the school services should be as followed:

125 and 127 do not interwork. Double decker 126 doesn't either, but the single decker forms an X5 for the remainder of the day. The double decker 128 should finish and then form the 8:49 124 from Musselburgh, although it is possible for this to return to the depot and be swapped to another vehicle.

In the afternoon, the 126 becomes an X6, 127 becomes the afternoon X7, and the 128 is followed by the additional bus on the 141. The 125 doesn't interwork here either.
Hence, only one additional bus needs to be added on, that being the bus to cover the 125.

TFL’s system just says the name of the stop without ‘next stop’. In urban areas with stops every minute or two, reducing the number of words makes sense. Less important on routes with less frequent stops where the ‘next stop’ audio makes more sense to alert people to start paying attention.

 

[alexf380]

There seems to be an inconsistent deadrun to/from North Berwick with the X5 as well. Hasn’t ran every day but often has gone from Musselburgh to North Berwick light in the morning, then at night it has gone back light to Musselburgh. Not sure why.

Short of single decks at the moment, so an extra double deck is being used for the X5 instead. And as only four doubles can stay at North Berwick each night it has to come from Musselburgh.
The Eve singles have been struggling so have "borrowed" one from the X7 allocation, so if one of them then breaks down or needs swapped it will need to come from elsewhere.

 

[scosutsut]

191/2 are 9.7m and 193 is 8.9m

Damn, I'm going to have to do some rework in City Bus Manager now I know this

Thanks for sharing

 

[Edirim]

And similar to above but for Lothian Country...

43 - PVR 7 with 2 morning extras and 2 afternoon extras
- One morning peak starts at Queensferry 05:13 and comes off from Edinburgh at 08:25
- Another morning peak starts at Queensferry 05:43 and comes off as an X18 from Edinburgh to Deans at 09:15
- All day 43 interworking: 08:40 from Queensferry starts as 72 from Fauldhouse at 06:31
- All day 43 interworking: 06:30 from Queensferry carries through to 18:30 from Queensferry and in town then works 19:50 X18 to Whitburn and back before ending on 23:20 X18
- afternoon extra 43 from Edinburgh at 16:50 starts as 15:22 X18 from Deans and ends on the 18:31 from St Johns and associated return.
- afternoon extra 43 from Edinburgh at 15:27 works through.

70 / 71 - PVR 3

72 - PVR 4

73 / 74 - PVR 4
73 from Blackburn arriving 2039 at Livingston runs onto 21:01 72 to Fauldhouse

X18 - PVR 8

X19 - PVR 5

X27 / X28 - PVR 12 with 7 extras
X28 from Edinburgh at 04:47 starts as Deans X18 at 03:48
X28 from Livingston at 08:01 starts as Fauldhouse 72 07:07
- morning extra X28 Bathgate 06:13 and return
- morning extra X27 Deans at 06:42
- morning extra X28 Deans at 07:03
- afternoon extra X27 Edinburgh 17:20
- afternoon extra X27 Edinburgh 16:55 until 23:15 X28 Bathgate
- evening extra X28 21:00 Bathgate and return
- evening extra X27 21:30 Bathgate and return
-

X40 - PVR 3 with 1 morning extra
05:32 to Royal and the return

N28 - PVR 1
Works off 22:00 X28 from Bathgate to Edinburgh

N43 - PVR 1
Works off 22:30 X27 from Bathgate to Edinburgh

 

[LBObserver]

I had assumed that the training buses all had their blinds replaced by digital screens. Driving down to a relative this afternoon about 1600 I spotted one unidentified citybound on the A1 with a roller screen showing Express N16, with the red 'N'. A short while later on the A199 I saw TB1 heading to the A1, apparently still with roller, closely followed by TB5 with a digital display Driver Training. As well as noting these displays I was wondering if there are new drivers being trained for East Coast.

A couple of hours later, about 1820, returning to Edinburgh, one of the former Eve Enviro 200s (193 maybe?) was sitting in the queue at Milton Link for traffic heading straight ahead on Sir Harry Lauder Road. I assume it was heading to Marine but is this normal?

 

[stevenedin]

I managed to catch 846 yesterday on Princes Street doing driver training.

 

[ScotRail158725]

662 had a minor bump at Haymarket on the 3

 

[computerSaysNo]

Bus 45 (single deck 7900H) has had interior audio announcements and interior dot-matrix displays fitted which are currently working for the new style announcements. It has also had it's original interior dot-matrix display altered to display "Service [number]" now instead of "[number] to [destination]".

 

[Bus9120UK]

Bus 45 (single deck 7900H) has had interior audio announcements and interior dot-matrix displays fitted which are currently working for the new style announcements. It has also had it's original interior dot-matrix display altered to display "Service [number]" now instead of "[number] to [destination]".

I think the screen at the front is connected to the Mobitec display system. I do wonder why they changed this.
Bus 1 also has this, and various 7900s have visited Seafield recently so they may do as well. These include 44 and 46.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Lothian Country 459 has had text to speech announcements aswell.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Is it more likely that 841-850 are in the process of being withdrawn and prepared for sale, or that they will be kept in storage for use in the next service changes, assuming we'll finally have significantly increased service in West Lothian? I realise it's most likely the former, but with so many BZLs still not in service then if there is a big service increase (we can hope) then they might still come in useful.

 

[Resuwen]

Sale or scrap.

They’re 18 years old.

Lothian generally tries to move vehicles on at 15 years or so

 

[ScotRail158725]

Sale or scrap.

They’re 18 years old.

Lothian generally tries to move vehicles on at 15 years or so

none will go for scrap euro 6 vehicles will definitely find a new home

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Sale or scrap.

They’re 18 years old.

Lothian generally tries to move vehicles on at 15 years or so

Euro 6 and they've been well looked after you're mad the fact you've even mentioned scrap

 

[Edirim]

service	Daytime service	Morning Extras	Afternoon Extras	Notes
1	11​	3​	3​
10	7​	1​	1​
100	10​	5​	1​
11	14​	1​	1​	1 works onto 15 AM 1 works onto 15 PM
12	6​	0​	0​
14	8​	1​	1​
15	3​	1​	3​	1 starts as 11 and ends as X26 1 ends as X31 1 ends as 11
16	18​	1​	0​	1 starts as 11/22
17	4​	1​	0​	1 ends as N35 includes N17
18	7​	3​	0​	includes N18
19	10​	1​	1​	1 starts as X37 1 ends as 12 2 end as X37s
2	8​	0​	0​
20	1​	0​	0​
21	15​	0​	0​	2 start as 25s 1 ends as 15
22 & 22A	6​	1​	3​	2 evening workings
23	8​	2​	0​	1 starts as X47
24	11​	0​	1​
25	14​	0​	0​	1 starts as X29 1 ends as X29 3 MA boards
26	22​	1​	2​	1 starts as X26 1 ends as N26
27	10​	1​	1​	1 starts as 37
29	11​	1​	0​	1 starts as X29/34 1 ends as 47/47B
3	20​	0​	0​
30	19​	1​	0​	2 start as 38s
31	13​	2​	2​	1 starts as X47
32	2​	0​	0​
33	10​	1​	0​	1 starts as X33 / 34
34	9​	1​	1​	1 starts as 21 interworks with 35
35	12​	0​	0​	1 ends as N35 interworks with 34
36	7​	2​	2​
37	14​	2​	1​	1 starts as X31 1 starts as 19/8 1 does 47B midshift 1 ends as X37
38	6​	0​	1​
4	9​	0​	0​
44	19​	1​	2​
45	5​	0​	0​
46 & 48	14​	0​	0​
47 & 47B	11​	1​	2​	1 starts as X47 1 ends as 34 / X33 1 ends as 15
49	9​	1​	0​
5	8​	0​	1​	1 evening working
7	8​	1​	1​
8	7​	0​	0​
9	6​	0​	3​	1 LS board 2 MA boards - 1 ends as X31
N11 & N16	4​	0​	0​
N14	1​	0​	0​
N22 & N30	4​	0​	0​
N25	3​	0​	0​
N26	2​	0​	0​
N3	2​	0​	0​
N31 & N44	2​	0​	0​	1 starts as 25
N37	2​	0​	0​
X26	0​	3​	2​	2 start as 25s 3 go onto 25s
X29	0​	0​	1​	starts as 25
X31	0​	2​	1​	1 goes onto 25 1 goes onto 15
X33	0​	3​	1​	1 starts as 34 3 go onto 34
X37	0​	1​	1​
X47	0​	1​	1​	1 starts as 45 1 goes onto 9

And finally Non-school day monday for Lothian Buses.

 

[buslad1988]

Since the last change there are now atleast a few Marine Sunday boards (service 5 as an example) which have dedicated time built in within the day for ‘Marine Charging’ - so that’s a sign of things to come.