Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Bus9120UK]

I came across an old slide of a green and cream vehicle heading up Lothian Road , it has cityhopper on it ...looks like a minibus . Any suggestions .

We don't know if this was even a Lothian vehicle - the colour does make it sound like it though

Edit: Was it one of these? (Not my photos)

 

[OmniCity999]

We don't know if this was even a Lothian vehicle - the colour does make it sound like it though

Judging by the current theme of the thread, which would date this person's slide around the 80's-90's or earlier - it's probably an SMT or Eastern Scottish bread van

Similar to:

SMT MR492 H492OSC

Edinburgh 29/8/95

flic.kr

Or

R424 - D424 ASF

Larbert depot, Falkirk - Eastern Scottish buses, they appeared to be out of use and stored pending sale. Not alloted Midland fleet numbers as far as I can find?

flic.kr

 

[DunsBus]

Eastern Scottish (SMT) had 70 minibuses and 30 midibuses, all branded as City Sprinters. The City Sprinter network's peak was in 1994, with seven routes operated: C1, C3, C5, C11, C23, C27 and C55. The C1, C11, C23 and C27 all came off at the end of that year as part of the agreement with LRT which saw them come out of West Lothian, which also saw a large number of City Sprinters rendered surplus overnight.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Eastern Scottish (SMT) had 70 minibuses and 30 midibuses, all branded as City Sprinters. The City Sprinter network's peak was in 1994, with seven routes operated: C1, C3, C5, C11, C23, C27 and C55. The C1, C11, C23 and C27 all came off at the end of that year as part of the agreement with LRT which saw them come out of West Lothian, which also saw a large number of City Sprinters rendered surplus overnight.

Agreement with LRT? Was that allowed in those days? Surely the decisions were just coincidental rather than two companies carving up the market between themselves. A few years later it all became very messy in any case so any agreement didn't do them much good.
Were the 23 and 27 run as proper sprinters with minibuses? I thought they were a similar size to the LRT equivalents. But I wasn't very familiar with these routes. For me the C1/C11 memories are vivid. In fact the aromatic experience when rammed like sardines in a tiny space is a memory that's hard to shake off!

 

[Jordan Adam]

Agreement with LRT? Was that allowed in those days? Surely the decisions were just coincidental rather than two companies carving up the market between themselves. A few years later it all became very messy in any case so any agreement didn't do them much good.
Were the 23 and 27 run as proper sprinters with minibuses? I thought they were a similar size to the LRT equivalents. But I wasn't very familiar with these routes. For me the C1/C11 memories are vivid. In fact the aromatic experience when rammed like sardines in a tiny space is a memory that's hard to shake off!

Yes it was. Grampian and Northern Scottish / Stagecoach Bluebird had a similar "gentleman's agreement" in Aberdeen in 1991/2, which has pretty much endured to this day. They still allow drivers from either company free travel when in uniform too.

 

[GusB]

The word we're looking for here is "understanding" rather than "agreement". The latter would have been frowned upon, but there came a point where tit-for-tat competition was largely pointless in certain cases.

Regardless, we're veering off-topic. Move along.
.

 

[stantheman]

We don't know if this was even a Lothian vehicle - the colour does make it sound like it though

Edit: Was it one of these? (Not my photos)

View attachment 88441

View attachment 88442

Yes it was one of these .

 

[Auld reekie]

Eastern Scottish (SMT) had 70 minibuses and 30 midibuses, all branded as City Sprinters. The City Sprinter network's peak was in 1994, with seven routes operated: C1, C3, C5, C11, C23, C27 and C55. The C1, C11, C23 and C27 all came off at the end of that year as part of the agreement with LRT which saw them come out of West Lothian, which also saw a large number of City Sprinters rendered surplus overnight.

Would that be at the same that LRT operated a No9 to Livingston?

 

[DunsBus]

Would that be at the same that LRT operated a No9 to Livingston?

Yes it was. SAS to Armadale via the Calders, Livingston and Bathgate.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The bus driver tiktoker has released a video on the new buses. They look incredible.

Edit: The Tiktok video has been made private so I have removed the video from this post.

 

[CN04NRJ]

The bus driver tiktoker has released a video on the new buses. They look incredible.

TikTok

www.tiktok.com

Yep, did my type training just before him and they're absolutely incredible as you said. Only a quick drive around the garage but a huge upgrade for drivers and passengers alike - all 30 are destined for Longstone. 5 out on Wednesday and should be more going out each day as they're ready.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The bus driver tiktoker has released a video on the new buses. They look incredible.

TikTok

www.tiktok.com

They do look good. Is that the final position of the information screen (on the side of the bus facing the other side, rather than at the front/top facing backwards)?

 

[Bus9120UK]

They do look good. Is that the final position of the information screen (on the side of the bus facing the other side, rather than at the front/top facing backwards)?

I am not sure, however I am sure @OmniCity999 or @CN04NRJ who have been on these buses will know

 

[CN04NRJ]

They do look good. Is that the final position of the information screen (on the side of the bus facing the other side, rather than at the front/top facing backwards)?

There's two, one side facing above the emergency door (presumably for rear facing wheelchair users) and another one at the front in the usual place behind the bulkhead.

 

[OmniCity999]

I am not sure, however I am sure @OmniCity999 or @CN04NRJ who have been on these buses will know

There's two, one side facing above the emergency door (presumably for rear facing wheelchair users) and another one at the front in the usual place behind the bulkhead.

View attachment 88485

Precisely as you say. Design was taken from advice of a local disability access group.

Not sure what the arrangement will be in terms of what each screen will show, as I know dockers show different things on each screen. I think it'll switch between the two.

Although I was lead to believe it would be more angled towards the front for the wheelchair space. I think it's been applied flat so that standing patrons can easily see it too.

 

[computerSaysNo]

There's two, one side facing above the emergency door (presumably for rear facing wheelchair users) and another one at the front in the usual place behind the bulkhead.

View attachment 88485

Ahh, didn't realize there were two. Thanks

 

[lewisjn]

~49 seated I'm led to believe - with a nice amount of standing space.

Trying to count the seats in that video I came to 49 - can anyone confirm? Impressive number by modern 2x2 standards - I can only compare to our 12.6m Tempos which have 46/47.

 

[OmniCity999]

Trying to count the seats in that video I came to 49 - can anyone confirm? Impressive number by modern 2x2 standards - I can only compare to our 12.6m Tempos which have 46/47.

Even more impressive considering its a body over chassis design as opposed to an integral. These have custom chassis compared to the regular B8RLE. In other words, It's just a stretched B8RLE. A similar chassis to the B8RLE Eclipse 3's East Coast have.

Maximum seating has been assured with tip up seats and 2 behind the driver and 2 next to the door, instead of the usual 1 on single deckers.

Of course those behind the driver and next to the door are currently out of bounds, but will be available once Covid has subsided.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Trying to count the seats in that video I came to 49 - can anyone confirm? Impressive number by modern 2x2 standards - I can only compare to our 12.6m Tempos which have 46/47.

According to the driver handbook;

Length 12.9m / 42'3"
Height 9'10" / 3m
Width 2.55m 8'4"

49 seated / 38 standing
46 / 37 with a wheelchair user.

 

[VioletEclipse]

I can't imagine it would be very enjoyable sharing a single decker with 86 other people. Not that it's going to happen with a pandemic going on.

 

[scosutsut]

Huge uplift in seat count over the 7900s for sure. Not seen those seat counts on single deckers since the final days of step entrance kit.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Part of the issue in the past was more down to how Lothian specified most of their low floor single deckers with a 2x1 layout at the front with more standing space. Both the Streetlite and E200MMC can be offered with 45 seats despite being over a metre and a half shorter at 11.5M. So 49 seats in a 13M bus is nothing that significant.

 

[OmniCity999]

Huge uplift in seat count over the 7900s for sure. Not seen those seat counts on single deckers since the final days of step entrance kit.

Use of longer unconventional chassis, double seats where there would normally be singles and tip ups fitted to side walls.

Manufacturers and operators have had to get creative since the demise of step entrance in terms of capacity, but I think this is a good ways towards those standards?

I can't imagine it would be very enjoyable sharing a single decker with 86 other people. Not that it's going to happen with a pandemic going on.

Before I start, I'm not having a go...

These are designed as high capacity vehicles, for routes that can't be double deck. More seats means more bums on seats and less standing. There's good space between seats, good padding, USB charging and windows that open, as well as humidity control and forced air heating, so it's a comfortable ride.

It really depends on what your view of enjoyable is? Customers don't want enjoyable in the same sense an enthusiast does. They want a reliable service, for a good price and comfortable surroundings, that can be seen as enjoyable by the public - as shown in customer research.

It needs to be serviceable and comfortable. Of which they are

 

[route101]

I can't imagine it would be very enjoyable sharing a single decker with 86 other people. Not that it's going to happen with a pandemic going on.

Not happening for a while. Though Its quite hard to get on and off a single decker bus when its full and standing.

Buses look good, look forward to trying them when I get the chance.

 

[Auld reekie]

Yes it was. SAS to Armadale via the Calders, Livingston and Bathgate.

Thanks.

 

[lewisjn]

Both the Streetlite and E200MMC can be offered with 45 seats despite being over a metre and a half shorter at 11.5M. So 49 seats in a 13M bus is nothing that significant.

These are designed as high capacity vehicles, for routes that can't be double deck. More seats means more bums on seats and less standing. There's good space between seats, good padding, USB charging and windows that open, as well as humidity control and forced air heating, so it's a comfortable ride.

This is the difference - the MMC feels cramped whereas you know Lothian will have spec'd these to have decent legroom on all 49 seats where possible. Also (without wishing to go off topic) the stock 11.8m MMC can only seat 43 with the 10.8m seating 41, begging the question why you'd go for the longer model. Here the extra length has paid off.

 

[oldman]

you know Lothian will have spec'd these to have decent legroom

I hope so, but for the last few years they have preferred to pack in the numbers.

 

[buslad1988]

Seems the entry into service of the evora’s will be timed well judging by local media reports today.

Edinburgh commuters 'risk health on crowded buses every day'

Commuters are risking their health on a daily basis because of crowded buses on a busy Edinburgh route, it was claimed today.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Seems the entry into service of the evora’s will be timed well judging by local media reports today.

Edinburgh commuters 'risk health on crowded buses every day'

Commuters are risking their health on a daily basis because of crowded buses on a busy Edinburgh route, it was claimed today.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

Without getting too off-topic, the passengers were obviously willing to take the risk otherwise they would have gotten off.

The bus was actually going to Clovenstone - saying it going to the Sick Kids Hospital just adds a bit of drama IMO.

As usual, poor reporting from the anti-Lothian EEN.

 

[scotrail158713]

As usual, poor reporting from the anti-Lothian EEN.

Yep. Is the Sick Kids not at the ERI - a place the 30 doesn’t go to?