Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[OmniCity999]

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I've seen more pictures of them (obviously not able to share) and looks like they've got the new ADL SmartSeats.

Personally I think they look better without the glass staircase, it suits the E400City body but not the standard body in my opinion.

i am led to believe they are built to "cheap spec" due to current circumstances. The standard (to Lothian) Lazerinni seats are rather expensive, in comparison.

The PIS has been downgraded, too i believe. Which to me goes against the "we want a unified fleet" argument... but im staying out of that.

Believe ADL might be building a demo of the Enviro400 bodied B5TL for other operators to try, too.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Hi folks. Apologies if this is the wrong part of the forum to ask this question or if it has been covered before. I remember seeing an article a while ago about lothian/ECC looking to close every second bus stops or something like that, to speed up journey times. Has this started to take place, specifically around the Cameron toll area, or is this to do with spaces for people.

I think it was along the 44 route where bus stop rationalisation was meant to start. It's mainly an Edinburgh Council responsibility although obviously bus operators can choose whether or not to serve any particular stop. But the proposal didn't have support from the public or councillors who couldn't see the benefits so I think it was dropped. As mentioned, it will be Space for People initiatives around Cameron Toll.

The subject has probably already been covered. You won't get much sympathy here for neglecting the search function.

 

[CN04NRJ]

i am led to believe they are built to "cheap spec" due to current circumstances. The standard (to Lothian) Lazerinni seats are rather expensive, in comparison.

The PIS has been downgraded, too i believe. Which to me goes against the "we want a unified fleet" argument... but im staying out of that.

Believe ADL might be building a demo of the Enviro400 bodied B5TL for other operators to try, too.

They really don't look that bad - it could be worse. There's 'cheap' spec and then there's poverty spec as on the all ADL E400s I used to drive - these made an Urban 90 seat seem like luxury. Until I did a bit of research I was worried Lothian had chosen these too!

 

[DunsBus]

They really don't look that bad - it could be worse. There's 'cheap' spec and then there's poverty spec as on the all ADL E400s I used to drive - these made an Urban 90 seat seem like luxury. Until I did a bit of research I was worried Lothian had chosen these too!

View attachment 92410

FWIW, the cheaper spec may be the way to go from now on. The all-singing, all-dancing interiors were all well and good but ultimately were the whim of one man. I can remember when LRT specified basic interiors and vinyl seats! At the end of the day, your backside doesn't really care what type of seat it sits on.

 

[takno]

FWIW, the cheaper spec may be the way to go from now on. The all-singing, all-dancing interiors were all well and good but ultimately were the whim of one man. I can remember when LRT specified basic interiors and vinyl seats! At the end of the day, your backside doesn't really care what type of seat it sits on.

Trouble is that that isn't the way a lot of other customers think. I'm definitely more inclined to get on the current buses than some nasty cheap vinyl skip on wheels like they used to be.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Trouble is that that isn't the way a lot of other customers think. I'm definitely more inclined to get on the current buses than some nasty cheap vinyl skip on wheels like they used to be.

Even with Lothian's monopoly I agree it's still worth investing to keep their offer attractive. They're looking to tempt passengers from comfortable private cars rather than other bus operators.
Beyond Covid, chances are the councils and government will be pleased if the company is successful in reducing pollution and easing congestion too.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Is the reason that SN13 BFL, 186 and SN13 BFM is on loan to Lothian Country is for Euro 6 upgrades to the ex London B9TL's?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Is the reason that SN13 BFL, 186 and SN13 BFM is on loan to Lothian Country is for Euro 6 upgrades to the ex London B9TL's?

If you go back a few pages, it was mentioned that it might be a permanent transfer for both 186 and 187 - Post #2198.

I'm led to believe they are actually there /intended for use there.

 

[CN04NRJ]

If you go back a few pages, it was mentioned that it might be a permanent transfer for both 186 and 187 - Post #2198.

That was in response to a question about whether or not they were at Lothian Country as I'd seen a picture of them with LCB legal lettering. Didn't think they were a permanent transfer.

 

[Graham Alexand]

That was in response to a question about whether or not they were at Lothian Country as I'd seen a picture of them with LCB legal lettering. Didn't think they were a permanent transfer.

I seen Lothian Country lettering on a few buses that were loaned from Lothian Buses in the first Lockdown.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

That was in response to a question about whether or not they were at Lothian Country as I'd seen a picture of them with LCB legal lettering. Didn't think they were a permanent transfer.

Whoops, sorry about that

188 and 190 have been moved to Seafield by the looks of it so they could very well be VOR at this point. Will be interesting to see what happens with them in any case.

If they were moved to Lothiancountry I wouldn’t be expecting the ‘improvements’ that 176-185 got, just a lick of paint at best. Those 10 have always looked strange in my view with the light grey seat backs mixed with brown panels.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I seen Lothian Country lettering on a few buses that were loaned from Lothian Buses in the first Lockdown.

They just have to change the top line, in fact it looked like they kept the 'Lothian' and added 'Country Buses Ltd' to the end of it. From memory the East Coast Buses had the top line replaced with their white text while the rest of the lettering was gold. Swap the ops discs and job done.

I took this photo when I was waiting for a bus last summer;

Whoops, sorry about that

188 and 190 have been moved to Seafield by the looks of it so they coulyd very well be VOR at this point. Will be interesting to see what happens with them in any case.

Occasionally see 190 out on the 42, it was last out on the 10th March.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I see 918 was on one of the 400 extra school runs just now that were brought in again this morning, to the best of my knowledge (which I admit is generally poor) 918 doesn’t have a Hanover fitted and I’m fairly sure (although not 100%) that those numbers were not in the blinds. I imagine no number was displayed and it just had the part route intermediate with Hyvots Bank on their own?

That or the trusty old piece of A4

 

[Bus9120UK]

I see 918 was on one of the 400 extra school runs just now that were brought in again this morning, to the best of my knowledge (which I admit is generally poor) 918 doesn’t have a Hanover fitted and I’m fairly sure (although not 100%) that those numbers were not in the blinds. I imagine no number was displayed and it just had the part route intermediate with Hyvots Bank on their own?

That or the trusty old piece of A4

Yeah buses with blinds display no number

 

[computerSaysNo]

I was thinking about a Facebook thread I saw which was discussing the opinion that the 5.1 litre engine in the Volvo B5TL is too small and underpowered. Is this a common perception? Whenever I've been on them they haven't seemed to be underpowered, but then I'm not a driver.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I was thinking about a Facebook thread I saw which was discussing the opinion that the 5.1 litre engine in the Volvo B5TL is too small and underpowered. Is this a common perception? Whenever I've been on them they haven't seemed to be underpowered, but then I'm not a driver.

Definitely not, they perform better than some B9TLs on hills but I'm led to believe engine longevity isn't anywhere near comparable to the D9 as it's 4 cylinder and much smaller.

I've a friend who's travelled alot on B5TLs in and around Dublin and he said those were woefully underpowered so I guess it depends on how they're set up by the operator?

 

[90019]

A B5TL with the gearbox in eco mode is awful on hills and feels like it has almost no torque.


The demonstrator we had back in 2014 had been set up for a much less hilly city and it really struggled, especially going up Dundas Street and the Mound as it spent a lot of time on the 27.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I have only been on one B5TL so can't really say much, but was fairly underwhelmed. The engine sounded as if it was working too hard and wasn't the smoothest either. It was one of the 66 reg ones which were originally used on the 22 - not sure if they still are as I don't follow Lothian's stuff closely anymore.

The Lothian (and Stagecoach) B5LHs I have been on, in comparison, are much nippier off the mark (and considerably smoother slowing down as they don't downshift until they've stopped or throttle is applied).

 

[fgwrich]

A B5TL with the gearbox in eco mode is awful on hills and feels like it has almost no torque.


The demonstrator we had back in 2014 had been set up for a much less hilly city and it really struggled, especially going up Dundas Street and the Mound as it spent a lot of time on the 27.

I seem to recall that Brighton and Hove had had similar issues with their B5TLs - used on the rather hilly Coaster routes between Brighton and Eastbourne. I'm not sure if they've modified them since their introduction, but I don't think they were particularly well received by B&H Drivers at the time with "Gutless" being frequently mentioned. It perhaps, didn't help that they had replaced a fleet of Scania Omnidekka's - a bus which could almost be described as built like a tank.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I seem to recall that Brighton and Hove had had similar issues with their B5TLs - used on the rather hilly Coaster routes between Brighton and Eastbourne. I'm not sure if they've modified them since their introduction, but I don't think they were particularly well received by B&H Drivers at the time with "Gutless" being frequently mentioned. It perhaps, didn't help that they had replaced a fleet of Scania Omnidekka's - a bus which could almost be described as built like a tank.

Aren't they Streetdecks rather than B5TL/Geminis?

I'm not sure i'd agree at all with that evaluation of Omnidekkas, but that's a topic for another thread!

 

[Stan Drews]

I seem to recall that Brighton and Hove had had similar issues with their B5TLs - used on the rather hilly Coaster routes between Brighton and Eastbourne. I'm not sure if they've modified them since their introduction, but I don't think they were particularly well received by B&H Drivers at the time with "Gutless" being frequently mentioned. It perhaps, didn't help that they had replaced a fleet of Scania Omnidekka's - a bus which could almost be described as built like a tank.

Don’t they use Streetdecks on the Eastbourne route? They certainly used to, but they too are gutless with their little Daimler? engine.

 

[fgwrich]

Don’t they use Streetdecks on the Eastbourne route? They certainly used to, but they too are gutless with their little Daimler? engine.

Doh! They are indeed Streetdecks with the little Daimler's. Apologies - the caption I was looking at was wrong. The vehicles however, are still gutless though.

 

[Bungle965]

Gentle reminder to stay on topic, anyone wishing to discuss whether a certain engine is underpowered can of course create a new thread to talk about such matters.
Thanks,
Bus and Coach Moderators

 

[Lothian285]

All services (except NightBuses) suspended after 19:30 tonight: https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2...escalating-instances-of-antisocial-behaviour/

Lothian Buses today announced its intention to withdraw all services from 19.30hrs tonight (17 March) following months of incidents of antisocial behaviour. This will include all services operating on Lothian Buses, Lothian Country and East Coast Buses.

The company has announced that all journeys across Edinburgh which are due to depart terminal points after 19.30hrs will not operate tonight. This applies to evening services only – NightBus services are expected to operate as normal.

Lothian has said that services are expected to return as scheduled on Thursday 18 March but will be kept under review with services diverted away from any area targeted by further attacks until it’s safe to return.

 

[221129]

All services (except NightBuses) suspended after 19:30 tonight: https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2...escalating-instances-of-antisocial-behaviour/

It was only a matter of time, but good on Lothian for focussing on the safety of their staff!

Hopefully this will now focus a few minds with the Parents,ECC and Police Scotland.

 

[TRAX]

Only tonight ? Is it worth it ?

 

[221129]

Only tonight ? Is it worth it ?

It says tonight initially and then it will be reviewed. But if it focuses a few minds then yes, it will be worth it.

 

[scotrail158713]

good on Lothian for focussing on the safety of their staff!

Agreed. They’ve definitely got my support.
Pulling all services, including ECB, LCB etc, was slightly unexpected IMO but a blanket approach is probably best.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Agreed. They’ve definitely got my support.
Pulling all services, including ECB, LCB etc, was slightly unexpected IMO but a blanket approach is probably best.

I’d say it’s a good call as well. As for the subsidiary buses they’ve have still had issues too and also in some cases go close or through some of the main areas that Lothian vehicles have had the problems.

 

[scotrail158713]

I’d say it’s a good call as well. As for the subsidiary buses they’ve have still had issues too and also in some cases go close or through some of the main areas that Lothian vehicles have had the problems.

Yeah. Going through problem areas in Lothian area was my guess for the subsidiary companies.

Only tonight ? Is it worth it ?

I reckon it might be more than just one night. I’d be happy to be wrong though.