Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[DunsBus]

In the late 1970s or early 1980s service 42 ran every 12 minutes Mon-Sat daytime and every 20 minutes on Sundays and every evening. It took about an hour going around the Porty circle, so I guess a PVR of 10 Atlanteans would do the trick, with one or two on standby at the depot if necessary. Totally rammed with students on some occasions but I suppose LRT must have had plenty data on its evening and Sunday potential with running every 20 minutes to realise how poor the business case was for even an hourly frequency.
At some point service 20 went down Causewayside as well but its timetable was rather erratic. Pretty sure it was scrapped around 1986 but any historians on the forum will know much better than me.

The old 20 became service 80 at deregulation. It was given a Monday to Friday daytime service as well as a Saturday one (previously it had run during the peaks on Mondays to Fridays and during the day on Saturdays), the route to the south of the city centre was changed to run via Newington instead of Mayfield Road, and it was also diverted and extended at the south end to serve Lasswade, Bonnyrigg and Polton Mill. Initially running as a limited-stop service, the 80 became all stops at the January 1987 service changes.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Prentice base their 2 zones from Haddington whereas ECB/LCB base theirs from Edinburgh out- the urban area being largely flat fare (£1.60 single) and the rural being variable with distance
Despite bring in different sones the fare to Seton Sands and the fare to Port Seton are the same.

Not sure why the line is drawn there - it would seem to make sense to put Cockenzie, Port Seton and Seton Sands together in one zone or another
The 109 route is also a bit weird as it meanders between zones twice along the route

Aw that makes a little more sense, although the boundry is a little confusing but I suppose it is just one of those things

thats what I was thinking with the 109 actually, i‘m not too familar With the fare structure prentice run on that route but if I had to take a guess, say for example if ECB ran that route It would be Zone D Haddington then Zone C Macmerry then Zone B Tranent, then Zone C again New Winton, Pencaitland and East Saulton and Finally Zone D again with Gilcriston and Humbie, that would be 5 zones but two fare zones are repeated? Honestly I don’t know how that would work

 

[route101]

In the late 1970s or early 1980s service 42 ran every 12 minutes Mon-Sat daytime and every 20 minutes on Sundays and every evening. It took about an hour going around the Porty circle, so I guess a PVR of 10 Atlanteans would do the trick, with one or two on standby at the depot if necessary. Totally rammed with students on some occasions but I suppose LRT must have had plenty data on its evening and Sunday potential with running every 20 minutes to realise how poor the business case was for even an hourly frequency.
At some point service 20 went down Causewayside as well but its timetable was rather erratic. Pretty sure it was scrapped around 1986 but any historians on the forum will know much better than me.

Where did the old 20 go? Dont recall that.

I suppose Causewayside is fairly quiet and Lothian wouldn't put one of the frequent routes down it. 67 went down too but was hourly .

 

[Siemens Trains]

Where did the old 20 go? Dont recall that.

I suppose Causewayside is fairly quiet and Lothian wouldn't put one of the frequent routes down it. 67 went down too but was hourly .

From St Andrew Square it went up the Bridges and turned off around Clerk St to join the 42 route at the old vet school on Summerhall. Not really sure what the point of this service was.
If I've uploaded it correctly (bearing in mind I don't know what I'm doing), this picture of an old service 20 timetable might help.
Although it has never been much help to me over the past 40 years....

 

[Graham Alexand]

tender was for three days. Lothian country was going to run a commercial Saturday service on the 2nd so West Lothian Council did not include the 2nd in the tender. Lothian Country then reduced the service to that of New years day leaving a lot of West Lothian without a service, mainly in the South of the county.

Im guessing the normal(ish) 31 is running today?

Also what depot does 928-936 run out of and is there any LothianCountry buses that run out of Longstone?

Thanks .

 

[Siemens Trains]

Also what depot does 928-936 run out of and is there any LothianCountry buses that run out of Longstone?

I think the days of any Lothian Country vehicles being kept at Longstone routinely are gone. Also, 928-936 were previously stabled at Central (not Longstone) to run service 43 however pretty sure they all retire to Livingston at the end of their shift now. From what I recall Stagecoach temporarily used some of Lothian's space for buses on their 40/A service, a similar route to LCB's 43, during Forth Road Bridge closure. Unsure of the details but that was probably Longstone rather than Central, which may not have pleased any drivers arriving by train.

 

[Graham Alexand]

I think the days of any Lothian Country vehicles being kept at Longstone routinely are gone. Also, 928-936 were previously stabled at Central (not Longstone) to run service 43 however pretty sure they all retire to Livingston at the end of their shift now. From what I recall Stagecoach temporarily used some of Lothian's space for buses on their 40/A service, a similar route to LCB's 43, during Forth Road Bridge closure. Unsure of the details but that was probably Longstone rather than Central, which may not have pleased any drivers arriving by train.

Ok thanks, its because I seen 928-936 leaving Livingston but having the CE (central depot lettering)lettering at the side.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Ok thanks, its because I seen 928-936 leaving Livingston but having the CE (central depot lettering)lettering at the side.

928-936 were Central based until September last year then moved to Livi with the 43, depot codes meam nothing since covid partly the reason they’ve been removed the last couple of months

 

[CN04NRJ]

I think the days of any Lothian Country vehicles being kept at Longstone routinely are gone. Also, 928-936 were previously stabled at Central (not Longstone) to run service 43 however pretty sure they all retire to Livingston at the end of their shift now. From what I recall Stagecoach temporarily used some of Lothian's space for buses on their 40/A service, a similar route to LCB's 43, during Forth Road Bridge closure. Unsure of the details but that was probably Longstone rather than Central, which may not have pleased any drivers arriving by train.

No Lothian Country vehicles are based from Central or Longstone anymore. During the lockdown there was one ECB vehicle stabled at Central overnight and the driver started their duty at Central, I have no idea if that still happens though.

There's some more pics floating about but I had this one saved to my phone from Google images (photographer unknown) of Stagecoach running out of Longstone.



------------------------------------

As another topic of conversation - I read recently that Go North East are converting their euro 5 Volvo B5LHs to euro 6. As part of this they're removing the hybrid systems and coupling the existing engine (and I presume exhaust aftertreatment to get them up to euro 6) with conventional ZF gearboxes - I wonder if buses 1-10 will also have this treatment as part of their euro 6 upgrade?.

Not sure if the 7900s require battery replacement as the E400Hs did, but assume it would be a much cheaper alternative if they did need replacing.

 

[OmniCity999]

No Lothian Country vehicles are based from Central or Longstone anymore. During the lockdown there was one ECB vehicle stabled at Central overnight and the driver started their duty at Central, I have no idea if that still happens though.

There's some more pics floating about but I had this one saved to my phone from Google images (photographer unknown) of Stagecoach running out of Longstone.

View attachment 88136

------------------------------------

As another topic of conversation - I read recently that Go North East are converting their euro 5 Volvo B5LHs to euro 6. As part of this they're removing the hybrid systems and coupling the existing engine (and I presume exhaust aftertreatment to get them up to euro 6) with conventional ZF gearboxes - I wonder if buses 1-10 will also have this treatment as part of their euro 6 upgrade?

The Euro 5 to 6 upgrades on early 7900's B9TL's & B5LH's can be achieved with exhaust reconfiguration and vehicle remapping.

The Go Ahead examples I believe were starting to have other issues regarding long term out of use and batteries.

(Not 100% sure, but it wasnt just because they wanted a E5 to E6 conversion, there were other issues with their batch)

As an aside, there are severe issues with Hybrid vehicles in general in comparison to full EV or even ICE (internal combustion Engined vehicles)

Hybrids were doomed to fail, but that's not a discussion for this forum!

 

[CN04NRJ]

The Euro 5 to 6 upgrades on early 7900's B9TL's & B5LH's can be achieved with exhaust reconfiguration and vehicle remapping.

The Go Ahead examples I believe were starting to have other issues regarding long term out of use and batteries.

(Not 100% sure, but it wasnt just because they wanted a E5 to E6 conversion, there were other issues with their batch)

As an aside, there are severe issues with Hybrid vehicles in general in comparison to full EV or even ICE (internal combustion Engined vehicles)

Hybrids were doomed to fail, but that's not a discussion for this forum!

Without wanting to go into any detail you only have to look at the daily usage/history of 1-10 on bustimes.org to see that they might be candidates for this treatment too!

It seems to be the norm now that operators are converting mid-life hybrids to conventional diesels - as Lothian have gone this way before with 201-215 I wonder if 1-10 and eventually the B5LHs might go this way too.

 

[NewcastleOne]

The Euro 5 to 6 upgrades on early 7900's B9TL's & B5LH's can be achieved with exhaust reconfiguration and vehicle remapping.

The Go Ahead examples I believe were starting to have other issues regarding long term out of use and batteries.

(Not 100% sure, but it wasnt just because they wanted a E5 to E6 conversion, there were other issues with their batch)

As an aside, there are severe issues with Hybrid vehicles in general in comparison to full EV or even ICE (internal combustion Engined vehicles)

Hybrids were doomed to fail, but that's not a discussion for this forum!

Without going too far off topic, the batteries on GNE 6056-6070 are approaching replacement age and was decided that they were better to be replaced. They are being upgraded to euro 6 in the process and is just 6064 for the time being as it’s the first one receiving this treatment. I’m not aware of any problems with the batch and believe the battery replacement is purely cost.

 

[DunsBus]

From St Andrew Square it went up the Bridges and turned off around Clerk St to join the 42 route at the old vet school on Summerhall. Not really sure what the point of this service was.
If I've uploaded it correctly (bearing in mind I don't know what I'm doing), this picture of an old service 20 timetable might help.
Although it has never been much help to me over the past 40 years....

View attachment 88109

Also served East Craigs on Mondays to Fridays from January 1980 until deregulation.

928-936 were Central based until September last year then moved to Livi with the 43, depot codes meam nothing since covid partly the reason they’ve been removed the last couple of months

The other reason of course for the removal of the depot codes is because the man who brought them in has now gone. They served little purpose in any case.

 

[Aaronb2601]

Have any of the Lothian B9TL’s been red painted to the harlequin livery? As I seen a post earlier on with one on the 22 that said it was today however I’m not sure how accurate it may be.

 

[Siemens Trains]

The other reason of course for the removal of the depot codes is because the man who brought them in has now gone. They served little purpose in any case.

I find it weird how people get very worked up about depot codes and link them to a particular managing director.
As you say they serve little purpose but whether they are present or not seems trivial to me. Fleet numbers seem almost superfluous to me as well as every bus has a registration plate.
Maybe I just don't understand the industry but I can't see how it's a big deal one way or the other.
Is it because the MD in question proposed splitting up the company by depot and selling off certain assets?

 

[computerSaysNo]

Have any of the Lothian B9TL’s been red painted to the harlequin livery? As I seen a post earlier on with one on the 22 that said it was today however I’m not sure how accurate it may be.

There were no B9s on the 22 today (or yesterday), only B8s and B5s. There was a single B9 on the 22 on Friday the 1st (number 861) but I can't see a (relatively) old bus which doesn't (I don't think) need painted, being repainted. Especially in the current financial climate(!)

 

[CN04NRJ]

Have any of the Lothian B9TL’s been red painted to the harlequin livery? As I seen a post earlier on with one on the 22 that said it was today however I’m not sure how accurate it may be.

Why would they be repainting buses into Harlequin?

 

[Trident638]

I'm led to believe the decker order for this year will be fully B5TL. No B8L's unfortunately due to extra cost.

 

[OmniCity999]

Could be worse - could be straight Enviro400's.

Although I'm inclined to believe it when I see it.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Why would they be repainting buses into Harlequin?

I vaguely remember a suggestion to either retain an original harlequin bus or paint a new one. Maybe some kind of inclusion or diversity tribute, commemorating the struggle for step-free access etc.
At the time I thought it was something of a vanity project but maybe there's a good marketing reason for this.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Have any of the Lothian B9TL’s been red painted to the harlequin livery? As I seen a post earlier on with one on the 22 that said it was today however I’m not sure how accurate it may be.

link to said post?

 

[OmniCity999]

link to said post?

A lot of posts on Facebook can be percieved to be "from today" because the uploader will batch upload a load of new photos with maybe one or two old. This is probably the case.

Similar with Flickr. The other issue with Flickr is it can sometimes get confused with the upload date being the photo taken date so people get the wrong idea.

There are no Lothian Buses in Harlequin except x572 which is preserved. Now isn't the time to be repainting vehicles into heritage liveries etc.

Hunters still run 701 I'm full Harlequin without Lothian names, but this is out in their neck of the woods, no where near Edinburgh.

 

[ScotRail158725]

There are no Lothian Buses in Harlequin except x572 which is preserved. Now isn't the time to be repainting vehicles into heritage liveries etc.

speaking of that bus did the other Airlink trident get sold on with 112 & 701? not seen or heard anything about it moving on but ive assuming it has

 

[CN04NRJ]

speaking of that bus did the other Airlink trident get sold on with 112 & 701? not seen or heard anything about it moving on but ive assuming it has

No, it was at Longstone recently. Back at Newbridge now I think?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Ensign stock moves out for December, just B7RLEs SK07 CFZ/CGX arriving from Lothian with nothing being sold onwards

 

[Lothiangem22]

186-190 have moved back to marine tonight on finlay smith. I wonder if we will see any further movement with the expected entry to service of the evoras?

 

[Graham Alexand]

I think we may see beginning of covid services again seeing as school's are off until February.

Will Lothian be reducing their services, does anyone know?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I think we may see beginning of covid services again seeing as school's are off until February.

Will Lothian be reducing their services, does anyone know?

If funding is guaranteed then I would expect services to carry on largely as they are at the moment, unless guidance from the Scottish Government changes or there are staffing issues (self-isolating or shielding). Remember Lothian are already operating a Saturday service.

If schools are expected to at least partially return on February 1st, is it really worth making new schedules, driver duties and rotas and furloughing drivers for the sake of 3 weeks?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think we may see beginning of covid services again seeing as school's are off until February.

Will Lothian be reducing their services, does anyone know?

You’d think so but somehow I doubt it, these services levels will be handy for keyworkers, plus this lockdown isn’t as extreme as the one back in Last March despite how close it is in comparison

 

[CN04NRJ]

Will Lothian be reducing their services

No.