Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[trinitybladee]

the 26 is constantly backed up with buses no matter the frequency it’s just based on the route it runs being a very popular corridor

 

[Baileygirl]

Have you forgotten it was the Highland Show and a seriously hot day on Friday… not to mention it was simply a Friday! Plus a host of temporary roadworks throughout the route.

I think you’re just trying to find excuses to complain about the loss of route to Tranent.

If the Highlans Show and roadworks delayed the services they would not have much time to sit. It depends how much recovery time they have at the end of the route compared to the frequency. The 26 is a 10 minute frequency and if three buses are sitting, that would suggest they have at about a 30 minute recovery time.

 

[buslad1988]

If the Highlans Show and roadworks delayed the services they would not have much time to sit. It depends how much recovery time they have at the end of the route compared to the frequency. The 26 is a 10 minute frequency and if three buses are sitting, that would suggest they have at about a 30 minute recovery time.

You’re forgetting the fact that when buses bunch the ones at the back will actually be ‘on time’ as the ones in front would have done all their work - so when they reach the terminus they’ll get a full layover.

Not to mention those which are running late… the drivers will still need to check the bus at the terminus regardless of how late they are, they may need to use the toilet, they may be waiting on control contacting them with further instructions before leaving etc.

Also whilst Lothian are good, on busy days their control room is ridiculously busy and drivers can sometimes be waiting for over an hour for a call back from them for late running etc. Whilst the controllers themselves are also looking after a whole garages services, not just a route so things will go a miss.

 

[paravostok]

Does anyone know why bus 684 is operating under lothian country right now? as service x18

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Are 1141-1153 starting getting repainted note that 1146 is away currently

None of them will get painted.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does anyone know why bus 684 is operating under lothian country right now? as service x18

Breakdown cover for 1050.

 

[paravostok]

Breakdown cover for 1050.

Shame, I thought maybe lothian was ordering more XLBs to handing down some of the MMCs to country.

 

[Leedsbusman]

The 26 is a 10 minute frequency and if three buses are sitting, that would suggest they have at about a 30 minute recovery time.

Would it? It could be 20 minutes if the 1200 arrival bus leaves at 1220 and the 1210/1220 arrivals are also on stand.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Have you forgotten it was the Highland Show and a seriously hot day on Friday… not to mention it was simply a Friday! Plus a host of temporary roadworks throughout the route.

I think you’re just trying to find excuses to complain about the loss of route to Tranent.

If I had a pound for everytime I heard this

 

[cam22]

Still baffles me why the 43 remains a country service. It has a £2.20 flat fare and operates solely within the city.

 

[stevenedin]

Still baffles me why the 43 remains a country service. It has a £2.20 flat fare and operates solely within the city.

I agree it'll be so that they can pay the drivers less.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Saw quite a few part routes on Friday, and a few singles on decker routes, can't be an easy job working out the logistics of running the 97 and 98 as well as everything else with so few spare buses.

 

[paravostok]

Still baffles me why the 43 remains a country service. It has a £2.20 flat fare and operates solely within the city.

Same with the 71/70, they don't touch West Lothian at all.

 

[DunsBus]

Same with the 71/70, they don't touch West Lothian at all.

South Queensferry may be part of the Edinburgh council area but it isn't part of the city itself. The city boundary is at Cramond Brig, and always has been.

 

[paravostok]

South Queensferry may be part of the Edinburgh council area but it isn't part of the city itself. The city boundary is at Cramond Brig, and always has been.

What about the 70 then? going from the Gyle to Hermiston

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

South Queensferry may be part of the Edinburgh council area but it isn't part of the city itself. The city boundary is at Cramond Brig, and always has been.

It’s tricky. Officially the city now is anything within the City of Edinburgh Council area. It’s not like Greater Glasgow where it stretches beyond a circumference to create a second one. Edinburgh just has one.

There’s plenty of confusion because of postcodes and postal towns, where not everywhere has Edinburgh listed, such as South Queensferry. Balerno would be another example of this, where unlike South Queensferry, city buses run to, but both have flat fares.

However, the urban area of Edinburgh actually stretches into parts of East Lothian and I believe it may also stretch into parts of Midlothian. The whole thing is a confusing mess and is largely off topic, but does create an extremely confusing transport set up if you simply base it on council areas.

 

[DunsBus]

It’s tricky. Officially the city now is anything within the City of Edinburgh Council area. It’s not like Greater Glasgow where it stretches beyond a circumference to create a second one. Edinburgh just has one.

There’s plenty of confusion because of postcodes and postal towns, where not everywhere has Edinburgh listed, such as South Queensferry. Balerno would be another example of this, where unlike South Queensferry, city buses run to, but both have flat fares.

However, the urban area of Edinburgh actually stretches into parts of East Lothian and I believe it may also stretch into parts of Midlothian. The whole thing is a confusing mess and is largely off topic, but does create an extremely confusing transport set up if you simply base it on council areas.

When Lothian Region Transport (LRT) replaced Edinburgh Corporation Transport in 1975, it stayed within the city boundary for its first few years. This created a lot of ill-feeling in the likes of Balerno, Queensferry etc who were paying city rates but not getting city buses in return. It wasn't until 1978 that LRT ventured beyond the city boundary with service 61 (St Andrew Square - Currie, later Balerno), joint with Eastern Scottish.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Still baffles me why the 43 remains a country service. It has a £2.20 flat fare and operates solely within the city.

In all fairness, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day — country or city. At least the folks in South Queensferry have a Lothian service. It does offer something positive with the Country Day Ticket, especially for those in West Edinburgh under the LCB banner — particularly on the 72 route, so people in Kirkliston can get a day ticket to Livingston.

Personally, I think the green branding adds a nice touch to the West Edinburgh services, especially since many of those routes are surrounded by green countryside. (ergo Lothian Country)

Thanks for coming to my TED talk people.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Same with the 71/70, they don't touch West Lothian at all.

Lothian Country services aren't exclusively intended for the West Lothian council area, and in fact the brand originally had no presence there. The present 'mission statement' description on Lothian's website is pasted below and cites west Edinburgh and West Lothian as their areas of interest. The 70 & 71 share significant portions of route with other Lothian Country services (and little in common with Lothian City routes), plus they run in the countryside rather than urban areas.

There might be a case for the 43 changing to a City service operated from Longstone or Central (as before) if space and drivers were available, but passenger flows probably favour resourcing from the Livingston depot. Before First won CEC's tender, the 71's predecessor operated from Longstone under Lothian. But prior to that Horsburgh ran it from Livingston.

 

[Porty]

Back to the 26 route parking at Seton Sands - Friday - 3 buses parked in a line at the camp bus stand, 1 200 metres up the road on its way to the city and another waiting on the coast road at the turn off to turn into the camp - just no space left!. 5 buses all within a minute of each other? Getting ridiculous to the stage its impacting on camp dwellers getting in and out of the camp.

Can someone with knowledge of the scheduling simply explain what should be the situation at the terminus. What is the time between arrival and departure? Is it therefore perfectly normal to have three buses on the stand because it's the normal schedule? Then, maybe this issue can be put to bed

 

[buslad1988]

Can someone with knowledge of the scheduling simply explain what should be the situation at the terminus. What is the time between arrival and departure? Is it therefore perfectly normal to have three buses on the stand because it's the normal schedule? Then, maybe this issue can be put to bed

The 26 during the day is scheduled to have between 15-20 minutes at the terminus. However, this varies at peaks, evenings, Sundays etc.

 

[oldman]

When Lothian Region Transport (LRT) replaced Edinburgh Corporation Transport in 1975, it stayed within the city boundary for its first few years. This created a lot of ill-feeling in the likes of Balerno, Queensferry etc who were paying city rates but not getting city buses in return. It wasn't until 1978 that LRT ventured beyond the city boundary with service 61 (St Andrew Square - Currie, later Balerno), joint with Eastern Scottish.

The 61 was a special deal between Lothian and ES in response to pressure from Heriot-Watt at Riccarton who only had a ES 53A via Colinton Road, eight a day during term, two in vacations, nothing evenings or weekends, which was tough on anyone living on campus. The university ran free minibuses to Sighthill to connect with Lothian's 22. When the 61 started the Lothian 45 was extended from Juniper Green to Riccarton to replace the 53A. The fares came down as well.

 

[DunsBus]

The 61 was a special deal between Lothian and ES in response to pressure from Heriot-Watt at Riccarton who only had a ES 53A via Colinton Road, eight a day during term, two in vacations, nothing evenings or weekends, which was tough on anyone living on campus. The university ran free minibuses to Sighthill to connect with Lothian's 22. When the 61 started the Lothian 45 was extended from Juniper Green to Riccarton to replace the 53A. The fares came down as well.

Thanks - I'd often wondered what the background was behind the 61 and had always thought it was in response to those living west of Juniper Green who were paying city rates and not getting city buses.

Happy to be corrected.

 

[Siemens Trains]

When the 61 started the Lothian 45 was extended from Juniper Green to Riccarton to replace the 53A. The fares came down as well.

Apologies if I've mis-interpreted your post but I doubt the 45 extension via Riccarton Mains Road and lower fares coincided with the 61 starting in 1978. That would have been cause for local celebration on a par with Scotland winning football's World Cup in Argentina that year. I don't remember exactly when the 45 took over from the 53A however the steep fare hike when crossing the former Corporation boundary at Sighthill and Muir Wood Road persisted until 1985.

 

[DunsBus]

Apologies if I've mis-interpreted your post but I doubt the 45 extension via Riccarton Mains Road and lower fares coincided with the 61 starting in 1978. That would have been cause for local celebration on a par with Scotland winning football's World Cup in Argentina that year. I don't remember exactly when the 45 took over from the 53A however the steep fare hike when crossing the former Corporation boundary at Sighthill and Muir Wood Road persisted until 1985.

61 was St Andrew Square to Currie via Riccarton at first. It was extended to Balerno in May 1984, the same time as the 45's extension to Riccarton started.

 

[Porty]

The 26 during the day is scheduled to have between 15-20 minutes at the terminus. However, this varies at peaks, evenings, Sundays etc.

So it would be normal for 2-3 buses to be stationary at the terminus with a 10 minute frequency.

 

[buslad1988]

So it would be normal for 2-3 buses to be stationary at the terminus with a 10 minute frequency.

100% normal. So on Fridays/Murrayfield events days/hot days - it wouldn’t be unheard of for 4-5 buses to be at the terminus when some are running 45-60+ minutes late.

 

[oldman]

Apologies if I've mis-interpreted your post but I doubt the 45 extension via Riccarton Mains Road and lower fares coincided with the 61 starting in 1978. That would have been cause for local celebration on a par with Scotland winning football's World Cup in Argentina that year. I don't remember exactly when the 45 took over from the 53A however the steep fare hike when crossing the former Corporation boundary at Sighthill and Muir Wood Road persisted until 1985.

It was a long time ago, but I worked at Riccarton at the time and travelled by bus and I don't recall a long period with the 61 and the 53A running at the same time. I rememberit as more of a big bang, with the 53A going and the 45 and 61 starting, but I don't have any documentary evidence.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

During the late eighties and early nineties Service 45 linked with Service 22 and latterly Service 65 at Riccarton.

 

[computerSaysNo]

100% normal. So on Fridays/Murrayfield events days/hot days - it wouldn’t be unheard of for 4-5 buses to be at the terminus when some are running 45-60+ minutes late.

Why isn't more recovery time given elsewhere on the route?