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Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

TheEastCoaster

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This forum is ideally for route speculation, ideas for route improvements, route ideas and how you would personally make the Lothian network better. Where would you take the bus and how frequent would you run it etc?
 
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stevenedin

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It would be nice to have a route that starts at Blackridge and runs to Edinburgh City Centre via Armadale, Whitburn, Longridge, Fauldhouse, Stoneyburn, Loganlea, Addiewell, West Calder, Polbeth, Livingston Centre, Fastlink, Mid Calder, Pumpherston, Uphall Station, Uphall, Broxburn, Newbridge, Ratho Station, Corstorphine, Murrayfield, Roseburn, Haymarket, Shandwick Place, Princes Street and Waterloo Place
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I myself think it’s time the network was essentially ripped up and started again from scratch. I’m currently working on a new network of routes and I’m hoping to have it completed in the near future.

My idea is to have the core networks based on the university and commuter traffic then add in the more local links etc at the end. Some routes won’t be touched at all, some will be gone completely and some will survive in some form but with a new number.
 

jb66

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I can't wait to see some speculation with West Lothian maps, now that they perhaps will have a monopoly. X17? Airport link? Sunday service in Pumpherston?
 
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FlybeDash8Q400

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Can't wait to see some speculation west lothian maps now they perhaps will have a monopoly. X17? Airport link? Sunday service in Pumpherston?
Well this is my thoughts:

X18: No expected change.

X27: Previous route to Whitburn and every 30 minute frequency restored but serving Livingston Village instead of Eliburn.

It may be that either of the X18 or X27 could extend to Rigghouse Road, but it might be that neither route covering that stretch does. Harthill and Shotts I would think are outside of Lothian’s remit.

X28: Increased to every 30 minutes but no change to the route.

X40: I think this will be left alone. Not really much reason to play around with it. I’d like to see Eliburn regain services and perhaps this is an ideal candidate for that. Ideally this would extend beyond Eliburn and running along what the X24 used to do to Deans via Appleton Parkway. Yes this admittedly isn’t an immediate problem to solve though but Eliburn really should have at least some level of service. 195-198 could be allocated to this.

71: Essentially the former 280 restored. It would be every 30 minutes as far as Armadale, but only extending to Blackridge every hour. Perhaps in time with passenger growth this route could get better? This would be fine with double deckers.

72: This could extend to Bathgate via the existing 21 route. An Airport extension could be a future project but not something I’d suggest is likely at the moment. This should really be single decker operated in my opinion but owing to the amount of vehicles available it would probably need to be double deckers.

73: This route would be a half hourly double decker route running between Broxburn and Fauldhouse via Pumpherston and West Calder, but serving St John’s and Howden on the way.

74: Of all the routes this is the one I see as a much less likely option, but this would run from Bathgate to Fauldhouse via the existing 26 route. It would be half hourly with double deckers and likely interworking with the 73.

This is really the absolute best case scenario. Too many routes there? I think so.
 
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TheEastCoaster

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Well this is my thoughts:

X18: No expected change.

X27: Previous route to Whitburn and every 30 minute frequency restored but serving Livingston Village instead of Eliburn.

It may be that either of the X18 or X27 could extend to Rigghouse Road, but it might be that neither route covering that stretch does. Harthill and Shotts I would think are outside of Lothian’s remit.

X28: Increased to every 30 minutes but no change to the route.

X40: I think this will be left alone. Not really much reason to play around with it. I’d like to see Eliburn regain services and perhaps this is an ideal candidate for that. Not an immediate problem to solve though.

71: Essentially the former 280 restored. It would be every 30 minutes as far as Armadale, but only extending to Blackridge every hour. Perhaps in time with passenger growth this route could get better? Owing to vehicle restraints this would need to be double deck operated.

72: This could extend to Bathgate via the existing 21 route. An Airport extension could be a future project but not something I’d suggest is likely at the moment. This should really be single decker operated in my opinion but owing to the amount of vehicles available it would probably need to be double deckers.

73: This route would be a half hourly single decker route running between Broxburn and Fauldhouse via Pumpherston and West Calder, but serving St John’s and Howden on the way.

74: Of all the routes this is the one I see as a much less likely option, but this would run from Bathgate to Fauldhouse via the existing 26 route. It would be half hourly with single deckers and likely interworking with the 73.

This is really the absolute best case scenario. Too many routes there? I think so.

I like these ideas, I think they are loads of Local Services, maybe cut.down a good few! But with the news of McGills leaving West Lothian I think I have a few ideas


X17 - Edinburgh to Fauldhouse
Follows X18 route to Broxburn before turning at Pumpherston, then via the old 275 route (2018 version) and then Longridge Road to Longridge before turning into Fauldhouse Station

X18 - Have split services from Armadale, have two buses an hour run to Blackridge and two run to Whitburn, making a 15 minute frequency

X27/X28 - Leave as is but increase frequency back to every 15 minutes

X40 - Leave as is (Potentially have run via Ratho one day)

72 - Extend to Queensferry Terminus from Kirkliston

75 - Gyle Centre to Fauldhouse
Runs via New ridge, Kirkliston, Winchburgh, Broxburn, Pumpherston, Craigshill, Livingston Centre, Polbeth, West Calder and Loganlea

80 - Livingston to Blackridge
Follows the old 280 route.

(And then add the 20 and 63 to some capacity and then bingo the ultimate Lothian Country network)
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I like these ideas, I think they are loads of Local Services, maybe cut.down a good few! But with the news of McGills leaving West Lothian I think I have a few ideas


X17 - Edinburgh to Fauldhouse
Follows X18 route to Broxburn before turning at Pumpherston, then via the old 275 route (2018 version) and then Longridge Road to Longridge before turning into Fauldhouse Station

X18 - Have split services from Armadale, have two buses an hour run to Blackridge and two run to Whitburn, making a 15 minute frequency

X27/X28 - Leave as is but increase frequency back to every 15 minutes

X40 - Leave as is (Potentially have run via Ratho one day)

72 - Extend to Queensferry Terminus from Kirkliston

75 - Gyle Centre to Fauldhouse
Runs via New ridge, Kirkliston, Winchburgh, Broxburn, Pumpherston, Craigshill, Livingston Centre, Polbeth, West Calder and Loganlea

80 - Livingston to Blackridge
Follows the old 280 route.

(And then add the 20 and 63 to some capacity and then bingo the ultimate Lothian Country network)
I like your ideas but I can help but feel that you’ve created secondary links over keeping the primary ones, eg buses to the Gyle and South Queensferry. It’s why I’ve suggested my 73 goes no further than Broxburn.

I’d like to see the X17 come back but I feel a local link is more likely now.

Realising the 73 and 74 could easily be double deckers, I’ve decided to make all the new routes double decker and shift 195-198 onto the X40 which is probably a safer option for now. I’ve also updated my idea and extended the X40 to serve Eliburn.
 
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Busman757

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Here is my input.

I feel the top priority is to cover areas that are lost to Eastern’s withdrawal:
Route 26 areas (Fauldhouse etc)
Blackridge
Pumpherston and Uphall Station.

LCB routes:

18/X18: 18 journeys - 1x journey per hour Edinburgh to Blackridge via current X18 route as far as Armadale Cross. X18 journeys - 2x buses per hour current route (every 20 mins combined 18/X18 between Armadale and Edinburgh). In Whitburn, X18 extended to Heartlands services via Righouse Estate.

X27: Route extended from Livingston to Whitburn (Heartlands Services) via Livingston Village - Every 30 Mins

X28: No change to route. Increased to every 30 mins.

43: No Change

X40: No Change

72: No Change

No Change to NIGHTBUS services.



NEW SERVICES

X24: St John’s Hospital-Edinburgh, via Alderstone Road, Livingston Centre, Craigshill, Pumpherston, Uphall Station, Uphall, Broxburn, Winchburgh, Kirkliston, X18 route from Newbridge. Every 30 mins (included Winchburgh and Kirkliston as potential for more passengers than continuing from Broxburn Main Street-Kilpunt Roundabout).

76: Livingston Centre - Bathgate via Polbeth, West Calder, Loganlea, Addiewell, Stoneyburn, Fauldhouse, Longridge, Whitburn, J4 M8, Bathgate Town Centre, Bathgate Railway station. Hourly

80: Old 280 route - hourly

Future:

Service 63 South Queensferry-Riccarton: Every 40 mins

Service 20: Negotiations with CEC. Renumbered X20. Operates Ratho Halcroft Park, Ratho Station, Ingliston P&R, Gyle Centre, Edinburgh Park, Hermiston Gate, Meadow Road, Costorphine, X18 route to Regent Road. Operates Hourly.
(Service 20 is tricky as it means missing out Westside Plaza, Wester Hailes, Kingsknowe & Slateford. However it does restore a direct link back to Edinburgh City Centre.)
 
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X24: St John’s Hospital-Edinburgh, via Alderstone Road, Livingston Centre, Craigshill, Pumpherston, Uphall Station, Uphall, Broxburn, Winchburgh, Kirkliston, X18 route from Newbridge. Every 30 mins (included Winchburgh and Kirkliston as potential for more passengers than continuing from Broxburn Main Street-Kilpunt Roundabout).
I know I'm nit-picking but wouldn't it just make sense to give this the number X17, I know it wouldn't be the same as the old Lothian route but it would just make sense, or even X19 to keep space for the X17 in the future although I'd probably rather have one or the other.
 

TheEastCoaster

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Here is my input.

I feel the top priority is to cover areas that are lost to Eastern’s withdrawal:
Route 26 areas (Fauldhouse etc)
Blackridge
Pumpherston and Uphall Station.

LCB routes:

18/X18: 18 journeys - 1x journey per hour Edinburgh to Blackridge via current X18 route as far as Armadale Cross. X18 journeys - 2x buses per hour current route (every 20 mins combined 18/X18 between Armadale and Edinburgh). In Whitburn, X18 extended to Heartlands services via Righouse Estate.

X27: Route extended from Livingston to Whitburn (Heartlands Services) via Livingston Village - Every 30 Mins

X28: No change to route. Increased to every 30 mins.

43: No Change

X40: No Change

72: No Change

No Change to NIGHTBUS services.

NEW SERVICES

X24: St John’s Hospital-Edinburgh, via Alderstone Road, Livingston Centre, Craigshill, Pumpherston, Uphall Station, Uphall, Broxburn, Winchburgh, Kirkliston, X18 route from Newbridge. Every 30 mins (included Winchburgh and Kirkliston as potential for more passengers than continuing from Broxburn Main Street-Kilpunt Roundabout).

76: Livingston Centre - Bathgate via Polbeth, West Calder, Loganlea, Addiewell, Stoneyburn, Fauldhouse, Longridge, Whitburn, J4 M8, Bathgate Town Centre, Bathgate Railway station. Hourly

80: Old 280 route - hourly

Future:

Service 63 South Queensferry-Riccarton: Every 40 mins

Service 20: Negotiations with CEC. Renumbered X20. Operates Ratho Halcroft Park, Ratho Station, Ingliston P&R, Gyle Centre, Edinburgh Park, Hermiston Gate, Meadow Road, Costorphine, X18 route to Regent Road. Operates Hourly.
(Service 20 is tricky as it means missing out Westside Plaza, Wester Hailes, Kingsknowe & Slateford. However it does restore a direct link back to Edinburgh City Centre.)

Honestly I like these ideas, especially for the X18, I would rename your X24 as an X19 personally but I get it is essentially the same service and it also gives Kirkliston an Edinburgh service without running direct to Linlithgow and copying the X38, only problem is that it would make the 72 pointless, but maybe WLC could look into merging the routes.

Guessing the 76 is pretty much the 26! :lol:

I would keep the 63 running out to Balerno personally, 40 minutes frequency is welcome.

Honestly as much as I like the idea of Ratho getting a service to Edinburgh I would keep the 20 as it is mainly for the links it provides, of course increase the frequency and maintain the Sunday service like McGills are doing just now!


I like your ideas but I can help but feel that you’ve created secondary links over keeping the primary ones, eg buses to the Gyle and South Queensferry. It’s why I’ve suggested my 73 goes no further than Broxburn.

I’d like to see the X17 come back but I feel a local link is more likely now.

Realising the 73 and 74 could easily be double deckers, I’ve decided to make all the new routes double decker and shift 195-198 onto the X40 which is probably a safer option for now. I’ve also updated my idea and extended the X40 to serve Eliburn.

To be fair I was thinking longer distance with most of my routes, like with my 75 covering all the ground along with running a bus out to the Gyle, and having my X17 run out to Fauldhouse via the old 275 route.

I mean the end of the day the city links in West Lothian are strong enough but adding one more to cover the loss of McGills is bound of happen.
 

overthewater

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I think the new Lothian routes will be as follows:

* New 71: Fauldhouse - west Calder - Livingston, every 30mins
* 72: enchane to be every 30mins between Livingston and Broxburn and the extra service to be interworked with 74.
* New 73: Shotts - Whitburn - Livingston, every 30mins
* New 74: Broxburn - Pumpherston - Livingston - Blackburn - Bathgate: Hourly.
* New 75: Replacement for McGills 25

I think Lothian will not replace the 26 between Fauldhouse and Bathgate, Maybe SD travel will pick that up on hourly service. I don't they will replace X24 or improve Service X27/28 at this time.
 
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I think the new Lothian routes will be as follows:

* New 71: Fauldhouse - west Calder - Livingston, every 30mins
* 72: enchane to be every 30mins between Livingston and Broxburn and the extra service to be interworked with 74.
* New 73: Shotts - Whitburn - Livingston, every 30mins
* New 74: Broxburn - Pumpherston - Livingston - Blackburn - Bathgate: Hourly.
* New 75: Replacement for McGills 25

I think Lothian will not replace the 26 between Fauldhouse and Bathgate, Maybe SD travel will pick that up on hourly service. I don't they will replace X24 or improve Service X27/28 at this time.
Lothian will not serve Shotts.
 

Jordan Adam

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71: Essentially the former 280 restored. It would be every 30 minutes as far as Armadale, but only extending to Blackridge every hour. Perhaps in time with passenger growth this route could get better? This would be fine with double deckers.
Given the running times it wouldn't require any more resources to run the service half hourly to Blackridge. If you had it half hourly to Armadale with an hourly extension to Blackridge you'd end up with excessive layover either at Armadale or Blackridge.
 

TheEastCoaster

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Because it's not in the Lothians. I would like it if they did but they won't.

Same reason why they won't serve Harthill I'm afraid!

Just wondering why not number West Lothian in a 2xx series? That would give 1-99 for Lothian City, 1xx East Coast and 2xx West Lothian.

Well technically Skylink has 200 also! but I'm not sure why they didn't opt for 272 when they got the 72 route!
 

roadierway77

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Just wondering why not number West Lothian in a 2xx series? That would give 1-99 for Lothian City, 1xx East Coast and 2xx West Lothian.
That was how services were numbered initially with routes such as the 275, 276, 280 etc... and it would make sense to return to that again, but given the existence of the 72, it's perhaps fair to assume that West Lothian local routes will use the 7x series of numbers. Which is fair enough, no city services use that series and I doubt there will ever be more than 10 local West Lothian routes.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Just wondering why not number West Lothian in a 2xx series? That would give 1-99 for Lothian City, 1xx East Coast and 2xx West Lothian.
I’m not sure why they moved away from the 2xx series but there’s obviously a reason for it.

All I can think of is the equivalent numbers in two digit form were still vacant anyway. Eg 275 and 75. Then 281 and 81.
 

stevenedin

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It may be that the number 72 was specified by West Lothian Council so they have to use that number but there is nothing to stop them from using 2XX route numbers again if they wanted for commercial routes.
 
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Because it's not in the Lothians. I would like it if they did but they won't.
I suspect the days where Lothian only operated in their shareholders' back yards as a matter of principle have gone, if they ever existed. It might still be written into their agreement but difficult to enforce and easy enough to remove if either party wanted.
But I doubt it's worth their while dealing with yet another council for registrations, bus stop infrastructure, road closures etc just for the sake of a few passengers in a remote location like Harthill. The rural market in North Lanarkshire doesn't seem to fit well with the type of services Lothian tend to run. Also Lothian's business is quite reliant on them being a dominant operator and the default choice for most journeys their passengers need to make. I feel it would take quite a sizeable carrot to get them interested in a place like Shotts.
 

overthewater

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I suspect the days where Lothian only operated in their shareholders' back yards as a matter of principle have gone, if they ever existed. It might still be written into their agreement but difficult to enforce and easy enough to remove if either party wanted.
But I doubt it's worth their while dealing with yet another council for registrations, bus stop infrastructure, road closures etc just for the sake of a few passengers in a remote location like Harthill. The rural market in North Lanarkshire doesn't seem to fit well with the type of services Lothian tend to run. Also Lothian's business is quite reliant on them being a dominant operator and the default choice for most journeys their passengers need to make. I feel it would take quite a sizeable carrot to get them interested in a place like Shotts.

If they win council contract, Lothian will go to shotts.
 

Aaronb2601

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I know it’s still early days, but have there been any new routes registered as of yet to cover the withdrawn McGills routes?
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I know it’s still early days, but have there been any new routes registered as of yet to cover the withdrawn McGills routes?
Nothing yet. As you say probably too early for it. It may be that there’s actually a formal announcement before any registrations are made public.

I still can’t see Lothian replacing everything. There’s just too much that needs to be covered in my opinion.
 

Aaronb2601

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Nothing yet. As you say probably too early for it. It may be that there’s actually a formal announcement before any registrations are made public.

I still can’t see Lothian replacing everything. There’s just too much that needs to be covered in my opinion.
Yeah, I can see Lothian maybe extending some routes and maybe introducing 1 new route or something but definitely not replacing everything.
 

CSB0241

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I think this would definitely be popular. I've often wondered why Leith Walk has no express services, while for example Nicolson Street has 4.
Solution;


X14 - Millerhill to Elm Row via Danderhall, Greendykes, Craigmillar, Prestonfield, St. Leonard’s, Pleasance, Royal Mile High Street, & North Bridge (all stops to Wauchope Place, then only stopping at Prestonfield Park, Royal Commonwealth Pool, Rankellior Street, Adam Street, then all stops to Elm Row. Route operates via West Millerhill, then Prentice Coaches 111 to Milligan Drive, then 14 route to Elm Row. Return via route above reversed.

X24 - Marchmont (at Roseneath Street) to West Granton via Tollcross, City Centre, Stockbridge, Western General, Drylaw, & Muirhouse (all stops to Frederick Street, then non-stop to Royal Circus, then all stops to Raeburn Place, then only at Flora Stevenson School, Western General Hospital Stances, Crewe Toll, then all stops to West Granton. Route operates via Roseneath Street, Marchmont Crescent, then via 24 route to Crewe Road South, then Porterfield Road, Campus Stances, Porterfield Road, then via 24 route to West Granton. Return via route above reversed to Melville Drive, then Melville Drive, Argyll Place, Roseneath Street)

X49 - Lochend (at Findlay Gardens) to Bristo Square via Leith Links, Duke Street, Leith Walk, OMNI, & Surgeons Hall (all stops to Foot Of The Walk, then non-stop to Shrubhill, then all stops to Bristo Square. Route operates via Findlay Gardens, then via 49 route to South Bridge, then Nicolson Square, Potterow, Bristo Square. Return via Bristo Square, Teviot Place, Forrest Road, George IV Bridge, Chambers Street, then via 49 to Restalrig Road, then Restalrig Crescent, Findlay Gardens, Lochend Terminus)

Other changes;
5 - Rerouted between Nicolson Street & London Road. Instead of serving Surgeons Hall, Tron, & OMNI, buses will turn down West Richmond Street, then via Pleasance, Holyrood Road, Holyrood Gait, Queen’s Drive, Horse Wynd, Abbeyhill, Abbeymount, & Montrose Terrace, so as to cut down on congestion at South Bridge & Surgeons Hall, as well as giving Dumbiedykes a bus service

14 - Rerouted between St. Leonard’s Street & North Bridge. Instead of serving Surgeons Hall & Tron, buses will operate via Pleasance, St. Mary’s Street, & Royal Mile High Street, as to cut down on congestion at South Bridge & Surgeons Hall

X26 - Buses now stop at Peirshill Square & Peirshill Cemetery

X29, X31, X37 - Buses now stop at Lady Road

X33 - Buses now stop at Cameron Toll

X44 - Buses now stop at Duddingston Mills
 

CSB0241

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Also, can I just state that I hate that all buses in Blackford serve West Granton?

I mean, do all the buses in one of the poshest places in the city really need to go to Granton College? I highly doubt it. So, what if, & this is a really odd hypothetical, I do know that, the 9 & 45 swapped termini? The 45 could go down to Waterfront & Co., with the 9 could head east to Portobello, even being extended to somewhere like Seafield or Ocean Terminal!

9 | KB - Blackford - Marchmont - Southside - Bristo Square - City Centre - York Place - Abbeyhill - Peirshill - Kings Road - Seafield - Leith Links | Every 20min Mon-Fri, every 30min Saturday, every 40min Sunday, every 60min evenings | Allocated to 401-425 & 951-960

45 | Riccarton - Currie - Juniper Green - Colinton - Craiglockhart - Merchiston - Bruntsfield - Lauriston - City Centre - Bellevue - Inverleith - Pilton - Granton Square - West Granton - Muirhouse | Every 30min Mon-Sat, every 60min Sundays | Allocated to E400MMCs & E400EVs

This fixes several problems that never existed anywhere but in my head;
• Links from Blackford to the East
• Introduced a Weekend Service on the 45
• Lowers the frequency on the 9 as aside from rush hour, there is no need for it to be every 20min due to how quiet it is (I say as someone who finds themselves in Blackford way more than they should)
• adds use to the 45 (not saying it’s useless, but there is still very little use to it)

I doubt many people will agree with me on this one, but I’m willing to see the Lothian community’s reaction
 
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