I recall that the evening and Sunday 31s went into the Murrays as service 31A for a few years from August 1995, but this ended at the March 2000 service revision. It was to give a service to there at these times, when the 80 didn't run. The 80 stopped on Lasswade Road and didn't go into the Murrays.
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Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)
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LothianLover88
Member
With a service change upon us in the next months, what do you guys speculate could change?
There’s been a lot of discussion about Services 15/45, 30 to the Fort, 38 to Newton Village and a load of other possible changes.
What do you all think could come out of this change?
There’s been a lot of discussion about Services 15/45, 30 to the Fort, 38 to Newton Village and a load of other possible changes.
What do you all think could come out of this change?
stevenedin
Established Member
I can’t see much changing which is a shame but it would be nice to have some changes for the better.With a service change upon us in the next months, what do you guys speculate could change?
There’s been a lot of discussion about Services 15/45, 30 to the Fort, 38 to Newton Village and a load of other possible changes.
What do you all think could come out of this change?
It would be nice to have an X44 west back from Waterloo Place to Balerno even hourly during the day.
X44 east withdrawn and replaced with a new route operated under East Coast Buses.
New service from Armadale to Calderwood via Bathgate, Blackburn, Seafield, Livingston Village, St John’s Hospital, Alderstone Road, West Lothian College, Livingston Centre, A899, A71, Kirknewton, Wilkieston and B7015.
It would be nice to have the X29, X31, X33, X37 & X47 express services running hourly during the day.
LothianBusesPh
Member
I would keep the east side 44 exactly how it is, maybe extending it to Ormiston (and Pencaitland?) under the East Coast Buses name. The X44 is well used in Tranent from what I’ve seen.
CSB0241
Member
We can confirm that the 22 is moving to Longstone & the 15/Saturday 45 are moving to Marine (see post #12656 in the main thread), but that seems about it.With a service change upon us in the next months, what do you guys speculate could change?
There’s been a lot of discussion about Services 15/45, 30 to the Fort, 38 to Newton Village and a load of other possible changes.
What do you all think could come out of this change?
First off, with the 22 going to Longstone, it’ll be interesting to see how the 22A gets affected. If it doesn’t get fully withdrawn, I think a good idea would be timing them so that they can just go onto 2/31/47 runs from the Gyle Centre. I was originally thinking of running extra 12 journeys in the morning, but they’d have to leave Marine way earier than there’s demand for, but this was suggested in the main thread, & I feel that that’s a much better option.
It’d be nice to see the 15 extended to Penicuik. In my opinion, I think Bush-Auchendinny-Ladywood-Penicuik Town Centre-Deanburn would be best, but everyone always proposes it going through Auchendinny & it never seems to happen, as has been the case since before I eventually made an account on the forum. Admittedly, the most likely extension is to either Lochend, Marine, or if we’re lucky, Eastfield.
The 45 running from Marine on Saturdays is a bit odd. Wonder how the route’ll be changed if it is. One thing worth noting is when the 12 was extended to Portobello & moved to Marine, it ran from Marine daily even if it only went as far as Bristo Square on Sundays. The only valid argument I can think of is that Elm Row is basically right next to the Central depot, whereas Bristo is quite it’s way away. I’m honestly unsure what could happen, but I’m excited for the new registrations to be published.
Lothian aren’t gonna change the 38 route. As bice as a southern extension would be, it’s a bit too unreliable to warrant the ~8min to get to Newton. I had an idea for the 38 to be split into two routes last year (Granton - Baberton & ERI (or maybe even Lasswade) to Heriot Watt), but that’s also not gonna happen, it’s been worked out perfectly so changing it would be a bit ridiculous.
I dunno, these are sounding like they’re gonna be big. to be fair, the September changes usually aren’t the biggest, they seldom have been, especially compared to the Spring changes, but with the BZLs being imminent & multiple buses switching depots, I think we can see a lot happening this time. Besides, aside from several routes getting frequency increases & the X47 introduction, there wasn’t too much to write home about in March.
I do think a wester X44 would be good. The 44 is extremely busy to the west, especially at rush hour, so I would like this.
I’d just increase the X6 to every 20min at rush hour. If not, maybe just renumbering it to the X6A.
I’d have it run via Almond Park Road to Mid Calder instead.
This is a very odd suggestion. I can see the X31, X33, & X37 working, but the X29 & X47 are just too similar to the daytime 29 & 43/Stagecoach routes for it. X26 is also a shout for getting an hourly daytime service.
I actually came up with my own flavour of changes today, what do you guys think?:
- 1: Reduced to every 20min Mon-Fri & every 30min weekends. Allocation changed to BZLDDs.
- 2: Extended to Gyle Centre. PVR Unchanged.
- 4: Frequency increased from every 20min to every 12min Mon-Fri, every 15min Weekends, & every 20min evenings.
- 8: Evening frequency increased to every 30min.
- 9: Frequency reduced to every 30min Mon-Sat & hourly in evenings, with Sunday timetable unchanged. Peak frequency increased to every 15min. Service rerouted from Goldenacre to Trinity via 23 route.
- 12: Extra bus interworked into rota Mon-Sat to provide longer layby times & improve reliability.
- 15: Extended from Bush to Deanburn via Auchendinny, Ladywood, & Penicuik Town Centre. Extended from Waterloo Place to Lochend. Buses moved from Central to Marine.
- 22: 22A withdrawn but replaced by extra service 12 journeys. Buses moved from Central to Longstone. PVR unchanged.
- 23: Service withdrawn. Services 9, 27, & 36 will act as replacements.
- 25: Frequency increased to every 10min Mon-Sat, every 15min Sunday, & every 20min Evenings (every 30min Sunday evenings). During the day off-peak, every other journey will curtail at Elm Row, with other journeys remaining unchanged.
- 27: Frequency increased to every 20min on Sundays, with extra journeys introduced during peak.
- 30: Service shortened to Fort Kinnaird, with the frequency reduced to every 15min Mon-Sat & every 20min on Sundays. Buses will now use double deckers as a result. PVR to 13.
- 33: Extra bus introduced to rota daily to increase waiting times & improve reliability.
- 36: Frequency increased to every 20min Mon-Sat. Buses will be rerouted from Greenbank Junction to Greenbank Village every hour daily to replace service 23.
- 72: Frequency increased to every 30min Daily between Fauldhouse & Broxburn. Every other journey will divert to East Mains Industrial Estate.
- 73: Service rerouted from Bathgate to Blackridge via old McGills 21 route.
- 75: New route between Livingston & Bathgate via Livingston Village & Blackburn. Buses will run hourly daily.
- 106: Service withdrawn & replaced by Prentice 108.
- 124: Sunday frequency decreased to every 60min to more effectively combine with service 113. Service X5 will now provide extra buses to North Berwick on Sundays.
- 140: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Fri. Some peak journeys will now run as service 140B, which’ll follow the 141 route.
- 141: Service withdrawn & replaces by service 140 & 140B.
- X5: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat, with every other journey being rerouted from Blindwells to Seton Sands via Port Seton. New hourly Sunday service introduced between Edinburgh & North Berwick. This will mean that there will be a bus service every 10 minutes between Edinburgh City Centre & the A1 Mon-Sat, & every 15min on Sundays.
- X6: Minor retimings so there can be a bus service every 10 minutes between Edinburgh City Centre & the A1 Mon-Sat, & every 15min on Sundays.
- X7: Minor retimings so there can be a bus service every 10 minutes between Edinburgh City Centre & the A1 Mon-Sat, & every 15min on Sundays.
- X40: Frequency increased to every 60min on Saturdays.
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SoloSR334022
Member
I actually suggested something similar a few pages back, but mine ran by East Calder instead.
LothianLover88
Member
During the Cameron Toll diversions, the X33 stopped at Glenvarloch Crescent, I’d personally like the X29 do this too as I live on the X29 and have family round the Inch.
stevenedin
Established Member
It does sound like a good route and would create new links as well.
Even if they stopped at Cameron Toll again.
LothianLover88
Member
That would be beneficial for people going from town to Cameron Toll and avoiding busier city routes.
I don’t know why but I doubt this would happen. The 36, the Tram and now the 32 provide the connection between Hermiston Gait and the Gyle. I don’t think this needs to be reinforced.
Is it terminating there? If it is, this once again leaves the Waterfront without a route. Though it stayed like that for many years, so I’m sure it could work.
It’s fun to speculate, but in all honesty, the 38 doesn’t need any change. If Newton was to be served, it would probably be by the 14.
SoloSR334022
Member
Service change from Sunday 8 September - Lothian Buses
Changes to Lothian Buses’ network will take effect from Sunday 10 September in response to customer feedback, improving reliability and connectivity and increasing services for returning students.
www.lothianbuses.com
stevenedin
Established Member
They will probably be waiting for the arrival of their 50 new buses before making any expansions.Quite surprised there weren't any changes in West Lothian...Service change from Sunday 8 September - Lothian Buses
Changes to Lothian Buses’ network will take effect from Sunday 10 September in response to customer feedback, improving reliability and connectivity and increasing services for returning students.
SoloSR334022
Member
Fair enough.
LothianLover88
Member
As some others have been giving a go at Service Changes, I think it's time for me to give it a go. Tell me what you all think.
LOTHIAN CITY
NOTE 2 - Network Map attached below.
LOTHIAN CITY
- 3 - Frequency reduced to every 15 minutes. Service will operate on E400XLBs and E400MMCs.
- 8 - Now operated by BZLs (when they arrive). Old buses will go to Service 30.
- 9 - Now operated by BZLs (when they arrive). Old buses will go to Service 30.
- 10 - Now operated by BZLs (when they arrive). Old buses will go to Service 47.
- 12 - Extra bus added to increase reliability.
- 15 - Extended to Eastfield via Portobello High Street & Joppa Road.
- 22 - 22A withdrawn and replaced by extra 12 journey.
- 30 - Sunday services only operating to Fort Kinnaird. Mon-Sat services will operate via the A1 to & from QMU. Deckers in use after BZLs arrive. PVR = 14 Mon/Sat, 13 Sun
- 33 - Route changed. From Wester Hailes Road, buses will operate via Westside Plaza, Westburn, Baberton and will terminate at Wester Hailes. Service 30 will continue to provide links along East Murrayburn Road, and Hailesland Road.
- 47 - Frequency increased to every 25 minutes. 47B terminated, 47 will call at Easter Bush going both ways between 7am to 9.30am in the morning and 3.30pm to 6pm in the evening. Buses operated by E400MMCs/G2s after BZLs arrive.
- 49 - Service terminated. See Service 50.
- 50 - NEW loop service to/from Royal Infirmary via current 49 route to Fort Kinnaird, then via Newcraighall Road, the Wisp and Old Dalkieth Road. Buses operate half hourly.
- X27 - Extended to Whitburn via Seafield, Blackburn and East Whitburn.
- X28 - Current route between Edinburgh and Bathgate increased to every 30 minutes.
- 120 - Moved to ECB
- 121 - Moved to ECB
- 122 - Moved to ECB
- 130 - Renumbered 125 - Moved to ECB
- COACHES - Moved to Lothian Motorcoaches
- 120 - Moved from Eve
- 121 - Moved from Eve
- 122 - Moved from Eve
- 125 - Renumbered SC1
- 126 - Renumbered SC2
- 127 - Renumbered SC3
- 128 - Renumbered SC4
- 130 - Moved from Eve, Renumbered 125
- 140 - Service half-hourly. Peak time buses will follow current 141 route as 140B.
- 141 - Service terminated. See increased 140 service and 140B.
NOTE 2 - Network Map attached below.
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Avenger20
Member
- Joined
- 8 Aug 2011
- Messages
- 210
If the 22A exists to bring workers to Royal Mail etc from the 22 corridor then an extra journey on the 12 to replace won't do much good. There is clearly the need for the 22A as it is.
Not sure why there is the obsession with merging Eve routes with ECB. Keep in mind that it was a condition of the sale that the Eve brand was retained. What you're suggesting basically winds Eve up in its entirety.
A 25 minute frequency is just a headache. Make it every 30 and use the extra 5 mins to allow for traffic or other delays.
LothianBusesPh
Member
No need for the Service 50. The 49 is fine as it is and isn't meant as a link from Fort Kinnaird to Royal Infirmary/areas in Portobello and Leith are covered by the 21. I would explore extending it from Royal Infirmary when the time comes. No need to renumber the established 130 service either and I feel the school services are also fine and no need to be renumbered.
122 is operated by Prentice Coaches which is the Gullane Circular, I presume you mean 120/121.
Every 25 minute frequency on the 47? Why such an odd frequency? You may as well have it every 20 or every 30 minutes doing that! The new system would be rather complicated as the current 47B works fine as it is and doesn't need tampering with numbers/operations either.
Why would you reduce the frequency of one of Lothian's most used services? Service 3 could probably still get full every 12 minutes on XLBs by the way.
I like that all Eve services are operated by East Coast Buses, that makes things less complicating and some people may not know that you can use East Coast Buses tickets on Eve, probably most!
141 doesn't need renumbering as a four digit number isn't ideal, particularly for a daytime service. Just keep it numbered the 141 and have it peak time only.
TheEastCoaster
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 1,407
First of all, really was impressed with your work on the revised network map, how did you do it?
Whilst I agree with the option for the 15, I think cutting the 3 back to every 15 minutes is not ideal, and the 50 idea might not be everyone's cup of tea, personally I would like to see a bus go from the Fort via The Wisp to the hospital full time but that's probably not the way I would go.
Whilst I get the idea of having all the East Lothian Operations under one name, I think the fact you can use the Daytickets on Eve services whilst they still have their own fares is good enough for everyone involved.
LothianLover88
Member
I used a software called paint.net. You might of heard of it, I use it often so I've managed to edit the network map with it!First of all, really was impressed with your work on the revised network map, how did you do it?
I know there was some buzz in both Lothian threads about running a route through the Wisp during the Greendykes Road works, and it seemed like a decent route for the 49 (or 50) to take. I feel like the loop could work more if it was both-ways half-hourly, which is possible but it takes up a lot of resources.
As @LothianBusesPh said, the 3 would still be busy with E400XLBs. I do feel like a 12-15 minute frequency is the most the 3 can do without requiring extra resources. I take the 3 often and thought it would be great with larger buses, I feel like it requires it the most, along with maybe the 25.
A lot of people who use Eve services don't know this, as @LothianBusesPh said again. I don't think it would work though, maybe advertising the daytickets more on ECB and Eve along with stating the fact that they are eligible on both services would do.
I haven't seen anyone saying anything about my 30 change, only cutting it back on Sundays and running it via the A1 on Mon-Sat, so what do you guys think?
LothianBusesPh
Member
At this time I think we should focus on the West Lothian Network and making buses available for that and building city services. The 30 provides a great link for the residents of Newcraighall and is used heavily in that area. An extension to Musselburgh would be ideal but I don't see them changing the 46/48 unfortunately. Once resources are available, I think it would be good if there would be a way to incorperate something like every second 30 extending to Queen Margaret Univeristy, during term times it is a well used route. Possibly an X30 in the future which goes via the A1 and has a limited stop section at peak times.I haven't seen anyone saying anything about my 30 change, only cutting it back on Sundays and running it via the A1 on Mon-Sat, so what do you guys think?
LothianLover88
Member
The 46/48 do provide a good connection, but what if the 30 was extended to someplace other than Musselburgh?
LothianBusesPh
Member
The 46/48 aren't ideal and the customers in the area aren't happy with them. I'd keep the link between Musselburgh by extending the 106 to Royal Infirmary via QMU and Fort Kinnaird. This would also free up single deckers if the 46 was withdrawn entirely with the 49 (or another route I suppose) taking its place between Royal Infirmary and Rosewell. This would keep all of the residents happy other than the select few travelling from Rosewell to Musselburgh which if you keep an eye on passenger numbers is next to none. Whilst I'm unsure what to do with the 48 (keeping it going to Musselburgh or cut short to Fort Kinnaird), enough single decks would be free for the 48 anyway.
If the 30 was to be extended somewhere other than Musselburgh, it would have to be somewhere like Wallyford (via QMU) and going via Mason's way and come in the other direction from the 44. If this were to happen you can forget the suggested changes above which would have been complimented by the reintroduction of the 30 to Musselburgh. Having two very frequent buses serving Wallyford and terminating at Fa'Side Avenue which already gets clogged up with 44s. The 112 already provides similar links to what this 30 would provide though it could be a nice alternative for those wishing to travel further, though the X6 is available. Another option is to terminate the route at Musselburgh Grammar School going via Mason's Way and Wallyford Park and Ride, skipping the town centre.
Somewhere like Blindwells is always an option when it becomes more developed, which is currently served by the X5 and 26 only serving Blindwells South. It would be a great opportunity to give Blindwells a direct link to Fort Kinnaird from Lothian. This would go inside the new Blindwells town, not terminating at the roundabout. Looking at the plans, it doesn't look like the shopping area will have any places for a bus to terminate at, it could do a loop along where the school is expected to be which would stop just outside the shops both ways. This could be extended via Prestonpans and Wallyford or go straight onto the A1 for reliability.
I am not suggesting that these will happen but I am just providing theories on where the 30 would be extended other than Musselburgh. These would have to serve the Queen Margaret University campus though, whether going via Newcraighall or straight onto the A1, I don't know but when these changes would happen I'd think resources would be available for a double decker 30.
GusB
Established Member
You need to provide evidence to back this statement up - how do you know customers aren't happy?
LothianBusesPh
Member
Passengers in person (on buses) and on online platforms such as Facebook vocalising their support for the 30 and 49 coming back respectively.
GusB
Established Member
In that case, please link to and quote from those platforms!
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LothianBusesPh
Member
Although many of these comments don't directly involve the service 46, they don't like the scenario that took place to ensure the 46 would be commercially viable. Another way they mention is by simply extending Polton Mill runs on the 31 to Rosewell. These comments still involve the 46 in some way, on the 46, I've heard more critiques.
I am happy to provide more statements if requested. Comments gathered over two posts (the two latest service changes) and haven't been altered. Click links below for more information:
A service change will take effect on the Lothian network from Sunday 24 March, affecting Lothian Buses, East Coast Buses, Lothian Country and Nightbus... | By Lothian BusesFacebook
A service change will take effect on the Lothian network from Sunday 24 March, affecting Lothian Buses, East Coast Buses, Lothian Country and Nightbus...
www.facebook.com
Lothian Buses
From Sunday 8 September a service change will take effect across the Lothian network to improve reliability and add capacity on certain routes. There will be a review of bus stops on Princes...
www.facebook.com
LothianLover88
Member
What I get from this is revert the 30, 46, 48 and 49 to the pre-May changes.
How did the 48 do when it was ran by deckers before then? Was it well used? It is something to consider, if Lothian does decide to cut the 46 and curtail the 48.
The 30 provided the link between the Southside and the West to Musselburgh. Sure, the 46/48 do provide a stable connection between places like the Hospital and East Lothian, but Service 30 just provides more used links. My family still immediately brings the 30 to mind when going to places like Musselburgh.
I've came up with an idea though. Extending different routes to keep links, and wiping the 46. It is stupid and takes up quite a few resources, but there is a small window of it working. What do you think?
19: Extended to Fort Kinnaird from Portobello High Street via current 49 route.
30: Extended to Musselburgh. From Fort Kinnaird, buses will operate via A1, QMU, A1, Mason's Way, Wallyford P&R, and Pinkie, terminating at Musselburgh Grammar School.
31: Extended to Rosewell.
45: Extended to Eastfield via Portobello.
46: Route cut. Services 31, 48 and 49 will continue to provide links to Rosewell, Dalkieth and Musselburgh.
48: Route curtailed to Fort Kinnaird. Services 30/49 will continue to provide links to Musselburgh.
49: Service will now terminate at Marine instead of Fort Kinnaird. Buses will do a loop from Sleigh Drive via Wakefield Avenue, Marine (where it will terminate), Portobello Road and Craigentinny Avenue. Service 19 will replace the connection from Craigentinny to Fort Kinnaird. Service extended to Musselburgh from Royal Infirmary via current 46/48 route.
Not only will this reinstate the link to Musselburgh from the south provided by Services 46/48, Rosewell will be served by a city service, the North-Fort link will remain, the London Road-Eastfield will remain and people will be able to get to QMU from Wallyford much faster!
LothianBusesPh
Member
Now you've got the issue that Newcraighall doesn't even have a bus service! You've also lost the Musselburgh to Royal Infirmary link provided by the 46/48 although Prentice do cover this link with their 111/111A.
LothianLover88
Member
My service changes below, the 49 provides these links.
LothianBusesPh
Member
Apologies I didn't catch the 49 at the end. I think that is a poor decision as the 49 is already a busy route and if anything could have a frequency increase in the Leith area. If only there was a way to serve Newcraighall without going under the bridge, but there doesn't seem to be an area which would suit buses in a loop. I haven't quite thought of a great solution yet although I've experimented with the 2 being extended to Musselburgh via the old 30 route which I thought was almost perfect with the 48 going to The Jewel, though the 2 doesn't serve Princes Street. There would also be the issue that the 2 would become as busy on the eastern end as the 30 was which would make the route awkward.
Extending a route like the 15, 19 or 45 to Queen Margaret University via Stoneybank is also an alternative which would give the area a link to the city. This would make the 30 to QMU via the A1 viable, Newcraighall would retain the 46/48 but the link to the city from Newcraighall would still not be available. There is potential with the 106 and to do something with the route, but after working out timings for being extended to Royal Infirmary, I figured it wouldn't work out. A smart thing to do with the 106 is to possibly extend it to Cameron Toll via Royal Infirmary, because it gives East Lothian a link to Cameron Toll and frequent link to the Royal Infirmary.
I've also considered extending the 31 to Rosewell, whilst it is a good idea, Rosewell would lose a link to Bonnyrigg and the Royal Infirmary. I was thinking having two frequent buses serving Rosewell wouldn't be commercially viable. I've not managed to come up with a solution for this yet. I would definitely keep the 49 serving Fort Kinnaird though as it serves areas like Leith Walk and is unique in itself, and I imagine it's useful for locals.
TheEastCoaster
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 1,407
Surely you could extend the 31 whilst keeping the 46? Have the local route for connections with the Hospital and obtain a direct link to the city?
I don't see them extending the 106 beyond the Royal Infirmary, as anyone could just swap over to an 8/24/33/38/49 from Royal Infirmary easily, and unless Prentice drop the 111 for whatever reason then I doubt we will see the 106 beyond Fort Kinnaird.
If the 46/48 became more frequent in the future between Musselburgh and Royal Infirmary then I doubt swapping over would be that much of an issue for passengers, the 30 turning into a double decker route would surely free up all the single deckers.
If Lothian wanted to bring the 45 back to QMU then we would of gotten it in the next change, heck they even had a chance with the 15, but my guess if they are still wanting folk to use the 4/30 instead.
Personally I would extend the 15/45 both to QMU and have a timed 15 minute frequency between the University and Abbeyhill during the day, it would also help improve the bus service in Joppa and free up the pressure on the 19/26.
I would also keep the 46/48 as they are with a frequency increase and an improved 46 service in the evening, follow your 30 suggestion and have some timings for connections in Fort Kinnaird.
I would maybe trial some 106's to run to the Hospital at peak times via The Wisp, worse case scenario they get cut back to Fort Kinnaird again.
Anyone know if the renumbered 107 is going to keep the odd Dunbar journeys to Fort Kinnaird in the early evening?
How are we extending the 31, bearing in mind that it still is split across two termini meaning one leg is going to be longer than the other - going to Rosewell on one of these may force an extra bus on the route so layovers at Bonnyrigg would be massive compared to the ones at Rosewell.
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