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BR used to say you could book a compartment or coach by buying all the seats, but it's not something I've seen in that form recently.
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Also very little between seat backs due to lack of tables. 80x overheads are huge (and in the high floor vehicles* quite easy to reach, too), but I think they will come to regret this.
* I know these are pure EMUs, but other pure EMU 80x also have only the end vehicles as low-floor.
I never understood why every 80x vehicle wasn't just made high floor. It would have saved tooling and design costs, and the seats are too low to the windowsill on the low floor ones, as well as it being a stretch for some to reach the luggage racks. Weird design choice.
Would it be the same food (as in picked from M&S' distribution warehouse) or more likely just taking the same mass-produced food from Rail Gourmet but licensing the use of their logo?
I have a feeling that these days, it's about having the brand to add credibility without necessarily giving the added 'quality'. But I may be wrong.
The cynic in me thinks that the Customer Experience Ambassadors are given a list of orders before each journey and go around doing a bit of shopping. I bet initially it's not that far from the truth.
In regards to their catering does anyone have any more information regarding this? Is it a simple basic trolley offering or is there any hot food as well? I know there is no buffet but wondering if there is any kitchen or food preparation area onboard the trains? I on notice their website it says that you can pre order food at least six hours in advance and that it will come from a range of suppliers including Marks & Spencer and others so i am wondering how this will work?
4 services so far but Stevenage can only be accessed from one going south, stopping to drop passengers off at 20.21. How many is that likely to be?
I suspect no travellers on the trains will be bothered about the Stevenage pages. Nitpickers on Web forums, social media, and probably the Stevenage local press are different. All publicity can be good publicity!
If your using Stevenage as an ECML parkway to head to the North, the most important trains will be early morning going north and last train going south.
Im, being based on the North of Romney Marsh an extreme case but Stevenage Station is still off peak only 2 hours away (100 miles nearly all motorway).
If your using Stevenage as an ECML parkway to head to the North, the most important trains will be early morning going north and last train going south.
Im, being based on the North of Romney Marsh an extreme case but Stevenage Station is still off peak only 2 hours away (100 miles nearly all motorway).
I never understood why every 80x vehicle wasn't just made high floor. It would have saved tooling and design costs, and the seats are too low to the windowsill on the low floor ones, as well as it being a stretch for some to reach the luggage racks. Weird design choice.
Why? The long run position will be that Lumo can't offer cheaper fares and the coaches serve other places on their way between London and Scotland. Also, there doesn't appear to be any plan to run overnight.
The coach flow has always been greater to Glasgow than Edinburgh in any case.
If your using Stevenage as an ECML parkway to head to the North, the most important trains will be early morning going north and last train going south.
Im, being based on the North of Romney Marsh an extreme case but Stevenage Station is still off peak only 2 hours away (100 miles nearly all motorway).
Stevenage isn't the best parkway station as there are loads of different car parks (all with different rates and restrictions, with some being tiny), unless you're willing to chance using the leisure park.
Drop offs at Stevenage (and Peterborough) on the late trains back to London do however allow people to get to stations between PBO or SVG and London without going in and having to come back out, but I guess a lot of people using these trains will be people living in Edinburgh or London who aren't wanting stations in between (Newcastle being a possible exception).
With so few services to begin with and only 5 coaches, it may be a while before there's space to allow full flexibility.
I had just went through the Lumo passenger charter and found this in regards to the post Watershed made about tickets onboard:
"We do not operate a penalty fare scheme so you can come on board our trains and purchase your ticket with our colleagues. Please bear in mind that we do not accept cash. You will be able to pay by card, bank transfer, or through our portal where family or friends can make the payment in your favour."
So what will happen if you only have cash on you? What will the staff onboard do? Will you be told to buy your ticket at your destination? Or if there is no staff at your destination or the barriers are wide open you will just get a free ride?
For passengers travelling to Morpeth (which does not have ticket barriers) or to any of the other stations in the evening when the barriers are left open (especially Kings Cross where the barriers are left wide open half the time) this will basically mean they can get a free ride. I am sure it will not be long before passengers discover that they can easily get a free ride if they only have cash with them. It is a very foolish decision of East Coast Trains to not accept cash onboard the train. I hope that they will reverse this decision and start accepting cash onboard.
I await the TikTok 'videos' that will inform people of all the ways to 'game' the system.
I would assume what happens is details are taken, rather than a passenger being told they don't have to pay if they only have cash, but I can still see this being a bit of a loophole that needs to be fixed before it is abused.
designed an entirely new seat which optimises leg room and the tilt of the seat to give you a comfortable seating position;
designed a larger seat back tray table to balance all your essentials on during your journey;
optimised the location of the power and USB sockets so they’ll be no more scrabbling around under your seat for a plug point to keep your electricals charged!*
put in an additional reading light in, should you need it;
lowered the glare from overhead lights by toning the temperature of the light down for your comfort, an extra special touch if you are on an early train and trying to catch a few zzz’s!
Uh-oh! You've stumbled across a broken link or you've typed the URL incorrectly. Use our main menu to get back on track.
www.lumo.co.uk
It sounds like their marketing approach regarding their fleet is addressing everything the Azumas are unpopular for amongst customers. Comfy seats, no overly bright lighting, etc.
Plenty of companies are willing to 'sell out' for a few quid. Look at the car industry, or laptops (e.g. HP), where big audio brands are more than happy to have their logo added to kit they've had little to no involvement in (I suppose you can also apply this to TVs too). Indeed, I imagine it goes on all over the place.
So what will happen if you only have cash on you? What will the staff onboard do? Will you be told to buy your ticket at your destination? Or if there is no staff at your destination or the barriers are wide open you will just get a free ride?
You come and find me, and I take the cash off you and pay with my Amex.
You're happy, because you paid by cash, the inspector is happy, because there aren't any forms to fill out, and I'm happy because I just earned 69 Amex points.
It sounds like their marketing approach regarding their fleet is addressing everything the Azumas are unpopular for amongst customers. Comfy seats, no overly bright lighting, etc.
Which is fair enough, even if in reality the changes aren't going to be that significant. I suppose better positioned power/USB ports are a nice thing, but what exactly do they mean by the stuff about lighting? Will it be dimmer, or just a warmer colour temperature? Will it adjust to the ambient lighting to dim at night (with the reading lights filling in)?
I fully intend to try the train out as soon as possible to hopefully answer these questions for myself! While I think they're perhaps overselling themselves as some major change to rail travel (which they have to!) I think it will be good for the industry as a whole.
The cynic in me thinks that the Customer Experience Ambassadors are given a list of orders before each journey and go around doing a bit of shopping. I bet initially it's not that far from the truth.
You get what you ordered, conveniently delivered to your seat; there's no wastage; M&S get more custom, without 50 people traipsing through the shop at King's Cross buying one sandwich each. Win all-round.
It probably wouldn't work for me - because if I've thought far enough ahead to order through Lumo, I can probably think far enough ahead to sort my own food out. I hope there's stuff on-board for impulse purchases - even if it is only 'ambient' produce.
BA tried something similar. You couldn't get *any* food or drink on-board (except a bottle of water) without pre-ordering. Fancy a coffee? Sorry, you should have decided yesterday. Thankfully, they've relented!
BA tried something similar. You couldn't get *any* food or drink on-board (except a bottle of water) without pre-ordering. Fancy a coffee? Sorry, you should have decided yesterday. Thankfully, they've relented!
With an M&S on the station to obtain the food on the day depending what you feel like, I just can't see this concept working at all. XC's meal ordering service seems to have quietly gone away.
You get what you ordered, conveniently delivered to your seat; there's no wastage; M&S get more custom, without 50 people traipsing through the shop at King's Cross buying one sandwich each. Win all-round.
If it is truly a system of someone from the company doing a shop before each service departs then it is a bit naff, they would face the same pitfalls as the rest of us.
"Sorry sir, they were all out of Chicken Salad so here is Egg Mayonnaise instead"
One of the key things they seemed to be suggesting they would do is full "low cost airline" style pricing removed entirely from ORCATS, i.e. compulsory reservation, only Advance tickets (with no capping Anytime fare, though classically £299 was the highest easyJet/Ryanair fare) and potentially things like upselling stuff like seat selection and additional luggage entitlement. Basically to see how people saw that model in the UK.
I have to ask, why would any train operator in their right minds - let alone an open access one which has to turn a profit to survive - adopt a “reservations only” business mode?
This would drive away customers looking for maximum flexibility and potentially willing to pay more for it.
I await the TikTok 'videos' that will inform people of all the ways to 'game' the system.
I would assume what happens is details are taken, rather than a passenger being told they don't have to pay if they only have cash, but I can still see this being a bit of a loophole that needs to be fixed before it is abused.
Indeed i am sure there will. There are already of plenty of videos on Tik Tok showing how to evade fares. People will find out about this in no time. It is a very silly policy to not accept cash.
If they take your details how would that enable you to pay in cash? Would you then get something in the post which you then take to a Ticket Office to pay? Or would they make you pay it through a Paypoint or Payzone outlet or a Post Office maybe? I am not sure how this would work? Does anyone know?
Also anyone could just simply give a fake name and any random address. As long as they give a real address than they have no way of knowing if that person lives there or not. People will find out about this loophole very quickly. They really ought to just start accepting cash which will close this loophole.
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You come and find me, and I take the cash off you and pay with my Amex.
You're happy, because you paid by cash, the inspector is happy, because there aren't any forms to fill out, and I'm happy because I just earned 69 Amex points.
If only all passengers were as helpful as you! Sadly i do not think that all passengers would want to help another passenger and purchase a ticket for them by accepting the passengers cash and then paying with their card. So i do not think they can rely on this. I would certainly be happy to do this though!
If only all passengers were as helpful as you! Sadly i do not think that all passengers would want to help another passenger and purchase a ticket for them by accepting the passengers cash and then paying with their card. So i do not think they can rely on this. I would certainly be happy to do this though!
If only all passengers were as helpful as you! Sadly i do not think that all passengers would want to help another passenger and purchase a ticket for them by accepting the passengers cash and then paying with their card. So i do not think they can rely on this. I would certainly be happy to do this though!
Is this another of those purely theoretical problems? If you have cash....just go to the booking office before boarding.
The Venn diagram overlap of "people who only carry cash" and "turn up for long distance train only 2 minutes before departure with no pre-booking" must need an electron microscope to see...
So what will happen if you only have cash on you? What will the staff onboard do? Will you be told to buy your ticket at your destination? Or if there is no staff at your destination or the barriers are wide open you will just get a free ride?
If only all passengers were as helpful as you! Sadly i do not think that all passengers would want to help another passenger and purchase a ticket for them by accepting the passengers cash and then paying with their card. So i do not think they can rely on this. I would certainly be happy to do this though!
I would, if the other person gave me cash.
Not long ago I filled up my car and realised I'd forgotten my wallet. For some reason Amex pay wouldn't work so I was miles from anywhere with no means to pay. I suggested to the cashier that I could transfer him some money on Paypal there and then and he could pay using his card, he readily agreed and I did the Paypal transaction on front of him before he paid for my fuel. I bunged him another fiver via Paypal afterwards as a thank you.
Is this another of those purely theoretical problems? If you have cash....just go to the booking office before boarding.
The Venn diagram overlap of "people who only carry cash" and "turn up for long distance train only 2 minutes before departure with no pre-booking" must need an electron microscope to see...
I think it's a theoretical problem of nefarious punters realising there's a loophole and deliberately exploiting it. "Yeah I was running late and didn't have time to go to the booking office. Oh, you don't take cash, that's a shame as I've only got cash on me."
If only all passengers were as helpful as you! Sadly i do not think that all passengers would want to help another passenger and purchase a ticket for them by accepting the passengers cash and then paying with their card. So i do not think they can rely on this. I would certainly be happy to do this though!
Is this another of those purely theoretical problems? If you have cash....just go to the booking office before boarding.
The Venn diagram overlap of "people who only carry cash" and "turn up for long distance train only 2 minutes before departure with no pre-booking" must need an electron microscope to see...
No it is definitely not just a theoretical problem. This is a very real problem that will certainly occur. We are not yet an 100% cashless society and there are still many who do not have a bank account or who do not carry a card on them or maybe their card is not working.
There are a number of problems:
Firstly the ticket office at Morpeth is only open between 06:30 to 17:30 on Monday to Friday and 06:30 to 13:00 on Saturday and closed on Sunday so these hours are quite limited. Outside of these hours the station only has one TVM which accepts card only. There is no cash accepting TVM here. So if you are travelling when the ticket office is closed and only have cash on you then you have no choice but to board the Lumo service without a ticket.
Secondly many passengers may start their journey at a small minor unstaffed station where there are no ticket machines or where the ticket machines only accept card (there are hundreds and hundreds of these stations) and then change on to a Lumo service. Often on their first train the Guard may not have time to walk through or may he in a different unit so they will not be able to buy a ticket. So also in these situations someone with only cash on them will have no choice but to board the Lumo service without a ticket.
Thirdly many passengers may just board without any ticket thinking they can buy one onboard but not realise that they do not accept cash onboard.
So the fact that Lumo will only accept card onboard and will not accept cash is going to be a real problem.
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So how do Unpaid Fare Notices work? Once you get one of those where do you go to pay it? If you only have cash how do you pay that? Could you simply go to any Ticket Office anywhere and pay it?
No it is definitely not just a theoretical problem. This is a very real problem that will certainly occur. We are not yet an 100% cashless society and there are still many who do not have a bank account or who do not carry a card on them or maybe their card is not working.
How many adults these days embark on a long distance train journey carrying cash only and no cards whatsoever!? The answer will be so few that it’s no doubt easier/cheaper simply not to bother with cash handling at all.
No it is definitely not just a theoretical problem. This is a very real problem that will certainly occur. We are not yet an 100% cashless society and there are still many who do not have a bank account or who do not carry a card on them or maybe their card is not working.
There are a number of problems:
Firstly the ticket office at Morpeth is only open between 06:30 to 17:30 on Monday to Friday and 06:30 to 13:00 on Saturday and closed on Sunday so these hours are quite limited. Outside of these hours the station only has one TVM which accepts card only. There is no cash accepting TVM here. So if you are travelling when the ticket office is closed and only have cash on you then you have no choice but to board the Lumo service without a ticket.
Secondly many passengers may start their journey at a small minor unstaffed station where there are no ticket machines or where the ticket machines only accept card (there are hundreds and hundreds of these stations) and then change on to a Lumo service. Often on their first train the Guard may not have time to walk through or may he in a different unit so they will not be able to buy a ticket. So also in these situations someone with only cash on them will have no choice but to board the Lumo service without a ticket.
Thirdly many passengers may just board without any ticket thinking they can buy one onboard but not realise that they do not accept cash onboard.
So the fact that Lumo will only accept card onboard and will not accept cash is going to be a real problem.
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But how many people at Morpeth will this actually affect..... (given this will be the only station this is a problem at, which isn't a very busy one, and only affects those who specifically wants to travel on Lumo as opposed to other operators). There is no Lumo journey that is not possible on other operators.
Presumably the solution if someone demonstrates ability to pay (by presenting the cash) is to take name and details and seek payment later, or something. And joining at Morpeth gives people the opportunity to leave the train at Newcastle (heading south).
Presumably First Group have data from Hull Trains on how many folk pay cash on board.
How many passengers pay cash for long distance rail journeys? It's got to be very near 0 now. People are hardly ever paying cash for anything now other than odd small businesses that only take it like my local chippy, hand car wash etc.
On a fairly busy northbound Avanti last Wednesday, there were two out of maybe 30-40 people in my coach who offered up a paper ticket (for which I bet they paid by card), everyone else had an e-ticket which was by definition paid for by card.
To be honest I don't entirely get why they are allowing on board purchase in this way rather than following the standard system of allowing it only if there is no opportunity to pay. It's only creating them trouble.
How many passengers pay cash for long distance rail journeys? It's got to be very near 0 now.
On a fairly busy northbound Avanti last Wednesday, there were two out of maybe 30-40 people in my coach who offered up a paper ticket (for which I bet they paid by card), everyone else had an e-ticket which was by definition paid for by card.
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