M25 Parkway Station?

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ntg

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I was raeding ECML RUS final recommendations and read one item in the table of recommendations, which was the construction of a new station at the intersection of the ECML and the M25.

I thought GNER had killed of this idea over a decade ago, but apparently it's back on the table again.

Does anyone have any idea what this would actually constitute...especially give the intersection between the ECML and the M25 is the 600m long Potters Bar tunnel, and sits directly between Potters Bar and Hadley Wood, and is green belt land? And furthermore why have Network Rail resurrected this idea now? Obviously being the line closest to the junction of the A1 and M25 and soon due for a major increase in tph gives this idea some weight but is it really possible?

To me it'd make more sense to to build it on or near the site of the much-opposed planned freight terminal near Radlett on the MML which sits right on the M25 too...
 
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jopsuk

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Probably wouldn't be hugely popular locally, but what about a large carpark at Hadley Wood and a spur from the A111 avoiding the village to give it quick access to the M25?

Even then, who is this really for?
 

Failed Unit

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Considering how few trains call at Stevenage (which I suspect will be replaced by the new station for East Coast services) i don't think it will happen.
 

NSE

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If ever we wanna come to London from Cambridge, we drive to High Barnet or Cockfosters (depending on eventual destination). Both are reached within the hour and straight from the M25, so I don't really see the need for a parkway station. Plus also the Parkway wouldn't ever have the turn up and go frequency of the tube, and to really be profitable, it would have to be in the Oyster Boundaries with Hadley Wood and not outside like Potters Bar.
 

jscho84233

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I always use Hillingdon as a parkway station when I come to london from the north. I'ts just about 5 minutes away from the M25 / M40 junction, has a frequent service on both Metropolitan and Piccadilly lines into London, and is in zone 6. It's ideal from Oxford / Birmingham / The North West.
 

jopsuk

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If ever we wanna come to London from Cambridge, we drive to High Barnet or Cockfosters (depending on eventual destination). Both are reached within the hour and straight from the M25
Which really rather illustrates how poor the public transport linsk for you are from Cambourne to Cambridge or St Neots railway stations...
 

swt_passenger

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If ever we wanna come to London from Cambridge, we drive to High Barnet or Cockfosters (depending on eventual destination). Both are reached within the hour and straight from the M25, so I don't really see the need for a parkway station. Plus also the Parkway wouldn't ever have the turn up and go frequency of the tube, and to really be profitable, it would have to be in the Oyster Boundaries with Hadley Wood and not outside like Potters Bar.
You seem to be assuming the sole purpose of the Parkway station would be for travel towards London, in which case it would not really be relevant to the ECML intercity operator.

But if you look at it as a railhead for travel to the Northeast and Scotland, then it does become relevant to the intercity operator.

So which traffic was it aimed at last time?
 

Failed Unit

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You seem to be assuming the sole purpose of the Parkway station would be for travel towards London, in which case it would not really be relevant to the ECML intercity operator.

But if you look at it as a railhead for travel to the Northeast and Scotland, then it does become relevant to the intercity operator.

So which traffic was it aimed at last time?
Which it will be, but will it also be a bit of a white elephant like ebbsfleet? As mentioned in another thread? A lot of Eurostars fly through, most people I know that use ebbsfleet would prefer to use Ashford.

Still say Stevenage has good road access and at least you can connect to other routes. Just like if Eurostar stopped at Stratford instead of Ebbsfleet other public transport user could take advantage (especially when cross-rail opens)
 

Zoe

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Just like if Eurostar stopped at Stratford instead of Ebbsfleet other public transport user could take advantage (especially when cross-rail opens)
You can still take advantage of Ebbsfleet by public transport if you are travelling from the east of London. Just use the Southeastern 395 service from Stratford to Ebbsfleet.
 

Failed Unit

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You can still take advantage of Ebbsfleet by public transport if you are travelling from the east of London. Just use the Southeastern 395 service from Stratford to Ebbsfleet.
Why not just stop at Stratford instead of Ebbsfleet? Much better! Next you will be telling me that taking the 395 from Ashford is better than a direct service! (where many people now need to change twice from places such as Tonbridge)

I don't think the network is a better place with Ebbsfleet, for many it is much worse!
 

yorksrob

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Why not just stop at Stratford instead of Ebbsfleet? Much better! Next you will be telling me that taking the 395 from Ashford is better than a direct service! (where many people now need to change twice from places such as Tonbridge)

I don't think the network is a better place with Ebbsfleet, for many it is much worse!
That's certainly true. Ashford is far better for Kent and East Sussex connections.
 

Ivo

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An M25 Parkway station on any of the ECML, MML and WCML would be very useful for travellers around the South-East. Having such a facility on the M25, with easy road connections from there to all manner of places, would mean that these people would have easy access to a station with direct services to myriad other places in england without needing to worry about either (a) accessing Central London or (b) driving to somewhere well out of the way (e.g. Peterborough). They could then have InterCity services stopping on the basis of no local travel to London.
 

Failed Unit

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An M25 Parkway station on any of the ECML, MML and WCML would be very useful for travellers around the South-East. Having such a facility on the M25, with easy road connections from there to all manner of places, would mean that these people would have easy access to a station with direct services to myriad other places in england without needing to worry about either (a) accessing Central London or (b) driving to somewhere well out of the way (e.g. Peterborough). They could then have InterCity services stopping on the basis of no local travel to London.
What is wrong with Stevenage, good access from the A1.

Not sure about Luton and Watford junction in terms of access but they would struggle to better Stevenage. If the are going to spend loads of money, just improve Stevenage, bigger car park etc.
 

Aictos

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What is wrong with Stevenage, good access from the A1.

Not sure about Luton and Watford junction in terms of access but they would struggle to better Stevenage. If the are going to spend loads of money, just improve Stevenage, bigger car park etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't NXEA deliver more car park spaces at one of their stations by making it a multi story car park?

Stevenage could do with a multi story car park, that and having the lifts refurbished.
 

Bald Rick

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't NXEA deliver more car park spaces at one of their stations by making it a multi story car park?

Stevenage could do with a multi story car park, that and having the lifts refurbished.
Stevenage car park doesn't belong to the railway unfortunately, and the council has no cash.
 

jopsuk

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Frankly, even Stevenage is too close for EC intercity trains to be stopping- I'd make Peterborough closest first stop Northbound/last stop Southbound to London, ensuring that everywhere on the Great Northern route (including Cambridge and Ely) had a connection to get them to the first northbound and from the last southbound (via March for Cambridge) be that connecting to Peterborough or a double back via Kings Cross (with appropriate easements). Road connections might need improved, but the car parks at Peterborough, both railway owned and other private, are sprawling affairs in an area that can only be improved by multi story
 

NSE

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Which really rather illustrates how poor the public transport linsk for you are from Cambourne to Cambridge or St Neots railway stations...
Not at all, I use the Citi4 all the time. What it illustrates is that its cheaper to drive to the outskirts of London for the cheap travel card (zones 1-6) than for all my family (even with two railcards) to get the train.
 

Fred26

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't NXEA deliver more car park spaces at one of their stations by making it a multi story car park?

Stevenage could do with a multi story car park, that and having the lifts refurbished.
The lifts at Stevenage are due to be replaced at the end of the year, after the platforms are lengthened and resurfaced. The booking hall and public toilets are being replaced too. The lifts will cost £550 000, according to the local rail user group.
 

philjo

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Frankly, even Stevenage is too close for EC intercity trains to be stopping- I'd make Peterborough closest first stop Northbound/last stop Southbound to London, ensuring that everywhere on the Great Northern route (including Cambridge and Ely) had a connection to get them to the first northbound and from the last southbound (via March for Cambridge) be that connecting to Peterborough or a double back via Kings Cross (with appropriate easements).

My home station is on the Hitchin-Cambridge branch so that means an additional change to join the trains at Peterborough - this can add up to 45 minutes to the journey time compared to using an EC train directly with 1 change at Stevenage.
It is actually quicker to go via Kings cross for some trains then change at Hitchin & again at Peterborough but that costs more.

Stevenage also has the local bus service to Luton airport.
 

LE Greys

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A revival of the old 'gateway station' principle from Intercity days, which included Stevenage, Watford Junction and Reading. Plenty of parking and regular trains stopping to get people out of their cars. Taking them one at a time, Stevenage definitely needs an upper deck to its car parks, ideally at booking office level. Plus perhaps some way to make sure that rail users don't have to pay as much as shoppers, to avoid any overspill. The Police Station nicked some of the south car park a few years ago. Watford Junction needs better access, being so close to the middle of Watford does not help, but the Croxley Green branch should do some of that. Reading is the one that needs serious replacement. I'd do it by upgrading West Drayton, extending the ULTRA system and renaming it Heathrow Airport Parkway. That could shorten the coach link from Slough, apart from anything else. Add a bay for XC, unless they want to go right through to Brighton (if there is the capacity for it).

Also, a dedicated road link from South Mimms to Cockfosters would be very useful, although that junction needs improvement since it clogs up easily. Plus better bus services from villages to the nearest station. Graveley is fine, but places such as Cambourne certainly need it.
 

stut

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Taking them one at a time, Stevenage definitely needs an upper deck to its car parks, ideally at booking office level. Plus perhaps some way to make sure that rail users don't have to pay as much as shoppers, to avoid any overspill.
Oxford does that quite well, with a changing location code visible only from the platforms, that allows rail passengers to park at a reduced rate.

However, most shoppers at the Nidge just park at Tescos for free...
 

NSE

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Also, a dedicated road link from South Mimms to Cockfosters would be very useful, although that junction needs improvement since it clogs up easily. Plus better bus services from villages to the nearest station. Graveley is fine, but places such as Cambourne certainly need it.
Cambournes bus service is fine, there is one an hour to St. Neots, which connects perfectly with the Semi-fast, and there is so much padding in the bus timetable its never late. A Peterborough train is only a slightly slonger wait so its not a problem.
 

jon0844

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Stevenage could surely get planning for a multistorey car park quite easily? No views to block (not that a view is ever protected) and no residential properties nearby.

I'm surprised the owners of the leisure park haven't considered offering paid-for parking in the day at the section nearest the station. Usage of the park is low in the week, so they could have a gated off section that becomes free after, say, 5 or 6pm and at weekends.

Perhaps they're not allowed to?
 

Aictos

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Stevenage car park doesn't belong to the railway unfortunately, and the council has no cash.
Pity about the council, :(

The lifts at Stevenage are due to be replaced at the end of the year, after the platforms are lengthened and resurfaced. The booking hall and public toilets are being replaced too. The lifts will cost £550 000, according to the local rail user group.
I know, I've read the said poster ;)

The resurfacing works was meant to start in April 2012, no sign yet of work :(
 

Zoe

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Stevenage could surely get planning for a multistorey car park quite easily? No views to block (not that a view is ever protected) and no residential properties nearby.
Restricting parking though does discourage car use where public transport alternatives exist. If you build a large car park then you could end up with people from Stevenage driving to the station and parking there rather than using public transport.
 

OliverS

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't NXEA deliver more car park spaces at one of their stations by making it a multi story car park?

Stevenage could do with a multi story car park, that and having the lifts refurbished.
You might just be talking about Manningtree which gained a deck onto part of its carpark in about 2009. It added about 150 spaces according to various Google results.
 

jon0844

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Restricting parking though does discourage car use where public transport alternatives exist. If you build a large car park then you could end up with people from Stevenage driving to the station and parking there rather than using public transport.
What is the problem with that? Let people have the choice of whether to pay up to £1,000 a year to park - or get a bus season (circa £400 a year) and travel that way. Or cycle. Or walk.

I go to Stevenage a lot (by car, it has to be said as it's mostly to the retail parks) and there seems to be a pretty good network of buses operated by Arriva, Uno and possibly others. However, many don't run very late into the night - and that can put off commuters who may work long hours, work overtime or simply get delayed.

My local bus was going to stop running around 7pm before the local residents, a councillor and then my MP helped get it restored to 11pm, seven days a week. If it had been cut to 7pm, there would be countless times I'd finish work and get back to my station after it had left. Even working until 6pm would make it tight, and I quite regularly worked until 6.30-7pm.

If there's a demand for car parking, build a car park. Then, if you want local people to use public transport, improve the options and people will choose the most convenient. Meanwhile, the car park can be used by people who have driven from further away (and possibly at a time when you wouldn't expect buses to be running) to go a lot further away than merely commuters going into London. Who knows, EC could even offer free parking for people buying open returns, or at least a nice discount.
 
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