M25 Parkway Station?

[Zoe]

What is the problem with that? Let people have the choice of whether to pay up to £1,000 a year to park - or get a bus season (circa £400 a year) and travel that way. Or cycle. Or walk.

It's not just about financial cost though, it's about encouraging a modal shift to sustainable transport.

 

[Failed Unit]

It's not just about financial cost though, it's about encouraging a modal shift to sustainable transport.

Then we shouldn't be building parkway stations at all.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's not just about financial cost though, it's about encouraging a modal shift to sustainable transport.

Surely the incentive of saving £600 is enough without then actively seeking to remove peoples free choice?

 

[Zoe]

Surely the incentive of saving £600 is enough without then actively seeking to remove peoples free choice?

It's only a choice if you can afford it. The car park will end up getting used by rich people in the Stevenage area commuting to London rather than as a parkway station for ECML intercity services.

 

[Aictos]

You might just be talking about Manningtree which gained a deck onto part of its carpark in about 2009. It added about 150 spaces according to various Google results.

Yes that's the one, wasn't sure of the location.

 

[Tiny Tim]

This is a mad idea. As a regular sufferer of the M25 I can say that the last thing needed is more traffic heading towards a 'parkway' station. It seems something of a white elephant from another point of view as well: It isn't much use to to people travelling out of London (they already have numerous access points to the national network) and it's not likely to have a frequent enough service to attract those wanting to go into London. Put the money towards improving the trains in and out of London and get commuters out of cars instead of this half-baked scheme.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think I cna see a lot of benefits from this scheme. If the intention is to try and attract car users on to trains for the north, then that is a laudable idea, but I fear that it will be swamped by people who are already rail users into London and who will just drive to a location where there is better (more) parking than wherever they currently travel from.

 

[LE Greys]

What is the problem with that? Let people have the choice of whether to pay up to £1,000 a year to park - or get a bus season (circa £400 a year) and travel that way. Or cycle. Or walk.

I go to Stevenage a lot (by car, it has to be said as it's mostly to the retail parks) and there seems to be a pretty good network of buses operated by Arriva, Uno and possibly others. However, many don't run very late into the night - and that can put off commuters who may work long hours, work overtime or simply get delayed.

My local bus was going to stop running around 7pm before the local residents, a councillor and then my MP helped get it restored to 11pm, seven days a week. If it had been cut to 7pm, there would be countless times I'd finish work and get back to my station after it had left. Even working until 6pm would make it tight, and I quite regularly worked until 6.30-7pm.

If there's a demand for car parking, build a car park. Then, if you want local people to use public transport, improve the options and people will choose the most convenient. Meanwhile, the car park can be used by people who have driven from further away (and possibly at a time when you wouldn't expect buses to be running) to go a lot further away than merely commuters going into London. Who knows, EC could even offer free parking for people buying open returns, or at least a nice discount.

I agree. I normally only ever go by car (lift or taxi since I don't drive) if I have luggage, because getting it up the steps or all the way from the bus station is a major pain in the backside. The buses to Graveley stop quite early as well, 18:30 IIRC. Also, I can't remember the last time I went past that car park during the week when it wasn't full. The demand is evidently there, so really there ought to be more provision for it.
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I don't think I cna see a lot of benefits from this scheme. If the intention is to try and attract car users on to trains for the north, then that is a laudable idea, but I fear that it will be swamped by people who are already rail users into London and who will just drive to a location where there is better (more) parking than wherever they currently travel from.

That's why the only new one I'd approve would be West Drayton, which happens to have a massive airport next door, so ought to have a lot of traffic for other reasons. Otherwise, it's more about improving facilities at existing stations.

 

[Zoe]

The demand is evidently there, so really there ought to be more provision for it.

By not providing parking it is managing the demand in line with encouraging modal shift to public transport.

That's why the only new one I'd approve would be West Drayton, which happens to have a massive airport next door, so ought to have a lot of traffic for other reasons. Otherwise, it's more about improving facilities at existing stations.

Iver would be better as it's close to the motorways and wouldn't increase congestion in urban areas.

 

[LE Greys]

By not providing the parking it is managing the demand in line with encouraging modal shift to public transport.

There is a limit to that, and when you get commuters parking in side-streets as far away as the Old Town, I think you've reached it.

Iver would be better as it's close to the motorways and wouldn't increase congestion in urban areas.

You're quite right. Looking at it, there's a big open area to the north, although building on top of it might not be popular, since it looks like a nice place to walk your dog.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.510425,-0.50638&spn=0.007746,0.021136&t=h&z=16

 

[Zoe]

There is a limit to that, and when you get commuters parking in side-streets as far away as the Old Town, I think you've reached it.

If think if interchange between buses and trains could be improved to avoid stupid situations like the bus leaving empty just as people are walking up the stairs from the platform then at least some people would consider using public transport and so reduce the demand for parking at the station.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm surprised the owners of the leisure park haven't considered offering paid-for parking in the day at the section nearest the station. Usage of the park is low in the week, so they could have a gated off section that becomes free after, say, 5 or 6pm and at weekends.

Used that once. Cost £90. F'king clampers:mad:

 

[jon0844]

If think if interchange between buses and trains could be improved to avoid stupid situations like the bus leaving empty just as people are walking up the stairs from the platform then at least some people would consider using public transport and so reduce the demand for parking at the station.

I am hopeful that this problem will go away now that buses are being fitted with new ticketing machines that a) accept smartcards (or will do soon) and b) can be tracked in realtime.

Herts County Council is, at long last, installing real-time screens at key bus stops and for their mobile app. Hopefully this is going to stop the bus drivers that happily leave early if they see people just arriving on a train. Why wait and have to deal with confused students and tourists asking 'is this the bus to xxx?' when you can just leave empty - and fly back to the depot?

Since the new system has been installed on my bus route, I've not heard the bus pass my house early one single time!

However, some buses will leave early simply because of the timetable, and if the train is delayed - the bus can't wait as they run to a fairly tight turnaround. Unless you're in London where they can slow down/speed up bus turnarounds to regulate the flow, you're never going to be able to have all buses meeting trains. For a start, does the bus company try and get the bus to the station before a train leaves, or slightly after a train arrives? If it's not a terminus for the bus, you can't do both unless passengers don't mind waiting for 5-10 minutes.

 

[LE Greys]

I am hopeful that this problem will go away now that buses are being fitted with new ticketing machines that a) accept smartcards (or will do soon) and b) can be tracked in realtime.

Herts County Council is, at long last, installing real-time screens at key bus stops and for their mobile app. Hopefully this is going to stop the bus drivers that happily leave early if they see people just arriving on a train. Why wait and have to deal with confused students and tourists asking 'is this the bus to xxx?' when you can just leave empty - and fly back to the depot?

Since the new system has been installed on my bus route, I've not heard the bus pass my house early one single time!

However, some buses will leave early simply because of the timetable, and if the train is delayed - the bus can't wait as they run to a fairly tight turnaround. Unless you're in London where they can slow down/speed up bus turnarounds to regulate the flow, you're never going to be able to have all buses meeting trains. For a start, does the bus company try and get the bus to the station before a train leaves, or slightly after a train arrives? If it's not a terminus for the bus, you can't do both unless passengers don't mind waiting for 5-10 minutes.

Well, I'm hopeful for all that. One thing it won't crack, though, is idiots parking in the bus stop just outside the station. The majority of drivers know to pull into the short-stay bit, but quite a few seem to think that the bus stop is actually a layby. They don't just stop to drop people off, they sit around for ages sometimes. I've had buses refuse to stop because someone is parked, and presumably the drivers don't want to block the nearside lane.

 

[jon0844]

Don't come to Hatfield then. There's no official drop off point, so the bus stops are always used for this - and taxis happily park there when they've been pre-booked. Bus drivers get very frustrated, and often have to hoot repeatedly. It also means that many cars get blocked in, or drive out the no-entry to avoid being stuck.

Nobody enforces the double yellow lines there, so it seems to get worse every year. On a Friday night, it's hell.

 

[stut]

Well, I'm hopeful for all that. One thing it won't crack, though, is idiots parking in the bus stop just outside the station. The majority of drivers know to pull into the short-stay bit, but quite a few seem to think that the bus stop is actually a layby. They don't just stop to drop people off, they sit around for ages sometimes. I've had buses refuse to stop because someone is parked, and presumably the drivers don't want to block the nearside lane.

Can't say I'm surprised, it's really not clear what to do when you drive up to the station (and the stop is far too small, and signs far too confusing, for the number of services that stop their - just try figuring out which ones go to the Lister!)

It would make more sense to get people to use the turning point near the leisure park (where the replacement buses go from) - loads of room, and you don't have to walk up that awful stepped ramp to the overbridge.

 

[LE Greys]

Don't come to Hatfield then. There's no official drop off point, so the bus stops are always used for this - and taxis happily park there when they've been pre-booked. Bus drivers get very frustrated, and often have to hoot repeatedly. It also means that many cars get blocked in, or drive out the no-entry to avoid being stuck.

Nobody enforces the double yellow lines there, so it seems to get worse every year. On a Friday night, it's hell.

There are times when I wish we had a mayor like the one in Vilnius. Borrow a BTR-90 for a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-fWN0FmcIU

Sorry about going so far off-topic.

 

[causton]

Don't come to Hatfield then. There's no official drop off point, so the bus stops are always used for this - and taxis happily park there when they've been pre-booked. Bus drivers get very frustrated, and often have to hoot repeatedly. It also means that many cars get blocked in, or drive out the no-entry to avoid being stuck.

Nobody enforces the double yellow lines there, so it seems to get worse every year. On a Friday night, it's hell.

Hatfield is the worst. I always seem to leave on a train that leaves Kings Cross at (let's say) 2311.
This train gets to Hatfield at 2346.
Guess what time the bus leaves? 2345. And because this bus comes from Welwyn Garden City, by then it has gained some time and so will not be late enough for anyone to catch it, usually leaving about 2343.

So I wait for the next bus at 0015.
However, this bus comes from the depot which mysteriously delays *every* driver of buses that get to the station at 15 past the hour.
The 0016 train arrives. I sigh, as I have now been waiting half an hour and all the passengers from the 0016 train are now waiting for my bus.
The bus arrives at around 0020 and has to navigate around the flotsam and jetsam of all these car drivers (as there is *no* pick-up/set-down space and taxi drivers come and go as they please) - and departs at about 0025 because 2 train loads of people are fiddling around with change and trying to use TfL travelcards (only one specific example is valid on this bus and I think I'm the *only* person to use it. These people all have invalid ones and so have to fiddle around with change)

So I get home about 45 minutes after I get to Hatfield station. *sigh*

Hatfield is fun, guys

 

[Aictos]

There are times when I wish we had a mayor like the one in Vilnius. Borrow a BTR-90 for a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-fWN0FmcIU

Sorry about going so far off-topic.

Nah, have him become the new UK Prime Minister

 

[jon0844]

Hatfield is fun, guys

Indeed it is.

(Off topic) The station is being upgraded though, which I believe not only includes a new bridge/lifts, a new ticket office but also a modification to the car parks and the bus stops.

I am not sure when the work starts, but I believe it is to be completed by mid/late 2013.

 

[philjo]

I am hopeful that this problem will go away now that buses are being fitted with new ticketing machines that a) accept smartcards (or will do soon) and b) can be tracked in realtime.

Herts County Council is, at long last, installing real-time screens at key bus stops and for their mobile app. Hopefully this is going to stop the bus drivers that happily leave early if they see people just arriving on a train. Why wait and have to deal with confused students and tourists asking 'is this the bus to xxx?' when you can just leave empty - and fly back to the depot?

Since the new system has been installed on my bus route, I've not heard the bus pass my house early one single time!

Are the screens actually showing real time?
The screens thye installed at the bus stops at Potters Bar Station all show the timetabled departure times, not the actual running times. So at 08:06 the 08:05 84 service will disappear from the screens but this service often does not turn up until 08:15 (especially on Mondays) !!

Sullivans buses have tracking - if you phone their office they can say when the bus is due.
Pity we can't track this ourselves online -it would be good to check online before leaving work how long we will have to wait in the train for the bus!


Getting back to Stevenage - I take it that the new lifts to be installed will be passenger operated? That will make things easier as at present staff have to operate the lifts which means having to wait until they have a gap between trains that need despatching. Getting from platfrom 1 to 3 can sometimes take at least 10 minutes at the moment if having to use the lifts.

 

[jon0844]

They WILL show the correct time in the near future, but only for operators that can provide it (Uno has the new system on ALL of its buses - can't speak for the likes of Arriva and others).

They are putting up all new screens (LED dot matrix displays) at new bus stops, instead of the colour LCD panels that just show the timetable information. They currently say 'refer to timetables' or similar.

HCC has also introduced some trials of new timetables, which completely changes how times are shown - and also has a route map complete with the time per stop shown (like some tube maps on platforms).

I keep meaning to ask HCC or Intalink when they'll have the real time info working (and likewise, when the info will show on their smartphone app, which you sadly need to pay for). I saw one of their vans at Asda in Hatfield the other day, but didn't have time to stop.

 

[Fred26]

Getting back to Stevenage - I take it that the new lifts to be installed will be passenger operated? That will make things easier as at present staff have to operate the lifts which means having to wait until they have a gap between trains that need despatching. Getting from platfrom 1 to 3 can sometimes take at least 10 minutes at the moment if having to use the lifts.

Yes, passenger operated.

 

[ntg]

Hatfield is fun, guys

Don't get me started on Uno. Probably burst a few blood vessels with rage...

 

[bengley]

Kings Langley? Literally touching the M25 at the London end of the platforms!