WorriedFather
New Member
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2012
- Messages
- 4
I found this forum via a Google search when looking for advice regarding my daughters case, and there seemed to be plenty of knowledgeable replies so I hope you don't mind me trying to gather your opinions.
Basically, my teenage daughter was travelling from our local train station to a larger town a few stops away to do some shopping with a friend. This is now just under 6 months ago. She purchased her ticket, and having not used the railway before, stupidly disposed of her ticket after going through the barriers and boarding her train.
She was later stopped by an RPI and was unable to produce a ticket. The RPI issued her with a penalty notice and took her name & address (but did not ask to see any photo ID to verify the information given).
The penalty notice was for over 4x the amount of the original fare, and my daughter explained her situation to the RPI. The RPI did not appear very sympathetic but said the penalty notice would be cancelled if it later transpired that a ticket had been purchased. She was not given the chance to buy another ticket despite having the cash on her.
My daughter didn't say anything to me at the time for fear of getting into trouble, and ignored the penalty notice thinking that the RPI would check with the original station and confirm a ticket was issued.
She heard nothing for 5 months and presumed the matter had been resolved internally. She has now had a letter from the Magistrates Court out of the blue, summonsing her to appear in court next month with an offence under '18 (2) Railway Byelaws 2005' for failing to hand over a ticket for inspection when required to do so by an authorised person.
Inside the envelope is a formal court summons, RPI witness statement, Prosecutions Manager's witness statement, and a copy of the original penalty notice (albeit illegible). The witness statement from the prosecutions manager states that my daughter was sent 2x written reminders prior to a summons being lodged, and that they received no reply, therefore he/she feels it was my daughters intention to travel and evade payment.
Neither of the 2x reminder letters have ever been received. We often have problems receiving mail as the post office confuse our post code and street name, which means we get other peoples mail and they get ours. I don't know whether the 2x letters were lost in the post or whether they just weren't sent at all. The witness statement does not refer to recorded delivery being used to prove receipt.
From my initial research on here, 18 (2) is a strict liability offence and my daughter has no defence whatsoever. She has not yet returned the slip indicating plea, so I feel we have 3 options (please let me know which one you would recommend):
1) Plead guilty by post, and submit written mitigation explaining daughters previous good character (no previous convictions/cautions and no history of fare dodging) and youthful naivety of the railway system, in addition to situation regarding not receiving any penalty notice reminders in the post. And then hope the Magistrates show some leniency.
2) Plead guilty and appear in person, read out a prepared statement apologising for wasting the courts time and outline the same mitigation as above. And then hope the Magistrates are more lenient having received a remorseful apology in person.
3) Contact the TOC Prosecutions Manager and request to settle the matter out of court ASAP. In the summons, the prosecution are requesting £120 contribution to costs and payment for the original fare.
Just a few questions:
1) My daughter only works 10 hours a week at minimum wage, earning no more than £65 a week. Out of that she has to pay for her mobile phone bill and £35 a week 'keep' to her mother and I. She has no savings. She has been asked to complete a means testing form sent in the summons pack in case she is given a heavy fine. The prosecution are seeking £120 costs + original fare, and I presume she will be fined on top of this, as well as a £15 victim surcharge and court courts? What kind of figure can she expect to be paying in total if she pleads guilty? Will she be allowed to pay the figure in installments given her low salary?
2) Are the TOC likely to settle out of court given they have now started proceedings in the Magistrates Court? If so, what would be a reasonable figure? Will they perhaps accept an offer of the original fare and/or the penalty fare? Or will she be expected to pay a similar amount to the final judgement in court, and if so, will the TOC accept installments?
3) Would anybody with significant experience of railway byelaw cases in the magistrates courts be willing to view the summons and witness statements via PM and see whether there are any technical errors or irregularities which could invalidate the TOC's case? I don't normally look favourably on people trying to avoid justice on a technicality but it seems only fair to pull the TOC up on minor mistakes when they did the same to a young girl who hadn't been on a train since she was 7 years old and who tried to explain the lost ticket to the RPI.
Thank you in advance for any help with this matter.
WorriedFather!
Basically, my teenage daughter was travelling from our local train station to a larger town a few stops away to do some shopping with a friend. This is now just under 6 months ago. She purchased her ticket, and having not used the railway before, stupidly disposed of her ticket after going through the barriers and boarding her train.
She was later stopped by an RPI and was unable to produce a ticket. The RPI issued her with a penalty notice and took her name & address (but did not ask to see any photo ID to verify the information given).
The penalty notice was for over 4x the amount of the original fare, and my daughter explained her situation to the RPI. The RPI did not appear very sympathetic but said the penalty notice would be cancelled if it later transpired that a ticket had been purchased. She was not given the chance to buy another ticket despite having the cash on her.
My daughter didn't say anything to me at the time for fear of getting into trouble, and ignored the penalty notice thinking that the RPI would check with the original station and confirm a ticket was issued.
She heard nothing for 5 months and presumed the matter had been resolved internally. She has now had a letter from the Magistrates Court out of the blue, summonsing her to appear in court next month with an offence under '18 (2) Railway Byelaws 2005' for failing to hand over a ticket for inspection when required to do so by an authorised person.
Inside the envelope is a formal court summons, RPI witness statement, Prosecutions Manager's witness statement, and a copy of the original penalty notice (albeit illegible). The witness statement from the prosecutions manager states that my daughter was sent 2x written reminders prior to a summons being lodged, and that they received no reply, therefore he/she feels it was my daughters intention to travel and evade payment.
Neither of the 2x reminder letters have ever been received. We often have problems receiving mail as the post office confuse our post code and street name, which means we get other peoples mail and they get ours. I don't know whether the 2x letters were lost in the post or whether they just weren't sent at all. The witness statement does not refer to recorded delivery being used to prove receipt.
From my initial research on here, 18 (2) is a strict liability offence and my daughter has no defence whatsoever. She has not yet returned the slip indicating plea, so I feel we have 3 options (please let me know which one you would recommend):
1) Plead guilty by post, and submit written mitigation explaining daughters previous good character (no previous convictions/cautions and no history of fare dodging) and youthful naivety of the railway system, in addition to situation regarding not receiving any penalty notice reminders in the post. And then hope the Magistrates show some leniency.
2) Plead guilty and appear in person, read out a prepared statement apologising for wasting the courts time and outline the same mitigation as above. And then hope the Magistrates are more lenient having received a remorseful apology in person.
3) Contact the TOC Prosecutions Manager and request to settle the matter out of court ASAP. In the summons, the prosecution are requesting £120 contribution to costs and payment for the original fare.
Just a few questions:
1) My daughter only works 10 hours a week at minimum wage, earning no more than £65 a week. Out of that she has to pay for her mobile phone bill and £35 a week 'keep' to her mother and I. She has no savings. She has been asked to complete a means testing form sent in the summons pack in case she is given a heavy fine. The prosecution are seeking £120 costs + original fare, and I presume she will be fined on top of this, as well as a £15 victim surcharge and court courts? What kind of figure can she expect to be paying in total if she pleads guilty? Will she be allowed to pay the figure in installments given her low salary?
2) Are the TOC likely to settle out of court given they have now started proceedings in the Magistrates Court? If so, what would be a reasonable figure? Will they perhaps accept an offer of the original fare and/or the penalty fare? Or will she be expected to pay a similar amount to the final judgement in court, and if so, will the TOC accept installments?
3) Would anybody with significant experience of railway byelaw cases in the magistrates courts be willing to view the summons and witness statements via PM and see whether there are any technical errors or irregularities which could invalidate the TOC's case? I don't normally look favourably on people trying to avoid justice on a technicality but it seems only fair to pull the TOC up on minor mistakes when they did the same to a young girl who hadn't been on a train since she was 7 years old and who tried to explain the lost ticket to the RPI.
Thank you in advance for any help with this matter.
WorriedFather!
