Maltese cross at Kentish Town

[mugam4]

As Kentish Town is not a London Terminal, is a ticket from Kentish Town marked with a Maltese cross valid on the Northern line there (ignoring the current temporary closure)?

Or, put another way, to reach Victoria from Kentish Town, is it valid to directly take the tube, or must you take the Thameslink and join the tube at St Pancras when on a ticket with a Maltese cross?

 

[jfollows]

Yes.
Kentish Town is valid on the underground with a Maltese Cross.
The list of stations has been quoted several times on recent threads, search the forum for "cross london" or see https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...tese-cross-via-district-from-richmond.251552/

List of London Underground, Elizabeth line, and DLR Stations between which single/return tickets valid for travel ‘via London' may be used - subject to route of the through journey being made

Abbey Wood
Aldgate
Amersham
Baker Street
Balham
Bank
Barking
Battersea Power Station
Blackfriars
Blackhorse Road
Brixton
Canada Water
Cannon Street
Charing Cross
Ealing Broadway
Edgware Road
Elephant & Castle
Embankment
Euston
Euston Square
Farringdon
Finsbury Park
Greenwich (DLR)
Highbury & Islington
Kensington Olympia
Kentish Town
Kings Cross St Pancras
Lancaster Gate
Lewisham (DLR)
Limehouse
Liverpool Street
London Bridge
Marylebone
Moorgate
Old Street
Paddington
Queens Park
Richmond
Seven Sisters
Shadwell
Shepherds Bush
Southwark
Stratford
Stratford International (DLR)
Tottenham Hale
Tower Hill
Upminster
Vauxhall
Victoria
Walthamstow Central
Waterloo
West Brompton
West Ham
West Hampstead
Whitechapel
Wimbledon
Woolwich Arsenal (DLR)
Woolwich (Elizabeth line)

Or https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/permitted-cross-london-routes.251684/#post-6317084

 

[Surreytraveller]

Doesn't matter whether its a terminal or not, there's plenty of stations which interchange between National Rail and London Underground.
Wimbledon and Balham are other examples

 

[mugam4]

Thanks for the info! I was denied travel on one recently at Tufnell Park, which was disappointing.

 

[redreni]

Thanks for the info! I was denied travel on one recently at Tufnell Park, which was disappointing.

Given the closure of Kentish Town, the lack of flexibility and common sense is indeed disappointing but, I'm sad to say, not altogether surprising.

There has been, as far as I can see, a general hostility towards holders of paper tickets where this closure is concerned, with Thameslink even claiming customers must buy tickets before travelling from the Thameslink station at Kentish Town despite the fact they have provided no means of doing so (and the fact their website still says there's a TVM there, which I understand there is not).

The option of walking to Tufnell Park is suggested by TfL for Northern Line passengers who would normally board at Kentish Town, but isn't suggested for passengers wanting to change between the Northern Line and Thameslink (presumably because both TfL and Thameslink hope, rather opportunistically, that people will travel via zone 1 instead).

 

[AlbertBeale]

As Kentish Town is not a London Terminal, is a ticket from Kentish Town marked with a Maltese cross valid on the Northern line there (ignoring the current temporary closure)?

Or, put another way, to reach Victoria from Kentish Town, is it valid to directly take the tube, or must you take the Thameslink and join the tube at St Pancras when on a ticket with a Maltese cross?

I've always understood the Maltese Cross tickets to be for using the tube/DLR to link two NR journeys. But if your origin is, eg, Kentish Town, is there any problem with starting your cross-London transfer there, even though that's the start of your journey and you haven't used NR first? Or is there a different NR to U1/2 (or similar) ticket that you'd be expected to use instead? (Of course from Kentish Town you can always hop on an NR and then get the tube, which is presumably why it's possible to get that ticket with a Maltese Cross.)

 

[jfollows]

A Kentish Town to Brighton, any permitted with maltese cross, can use the tube/DLR to cross London in exactly the same way as a Cricklewood to Brighton, any permitted with maltese cross.
That's to say, both can be used to travel to Saint Pancras before changing to the tube (as you say), or both can be used on the tube from Kentish Town, and the fact that the former's origin is also Kentish Town doesn't make a difference. There are also "via City Thameslink" season ticket fares, and in other similar cases there can be simpler "not via London" fares.
I understand that the concept of the maltese cross primarily applies to linking two NR journeys as you say, but I don't see an issue if one of them is null.

 

[redreni]

I've always understood the Maltese Cross tickets to be for using the tube/DLR to link two NR journeys. But if your origin is, eg, Kentish Town, is there any problem with starting your cross-London transfer there, even though that's the start of your journey and you haven't used NR first? Or is there a different NR to U1/2 (or similar) ticket that you'd be expected to use instead? (Of course from Kentish Town you can always hop on an NR and then get the tube, which is presumably why it's possible to get that ticket with a Maltese Cross.)

When I lived in Walthamstow I used to use Maltese Cross tickets with Walthamstow Central as the origin and get straight on the Victoria Line. The barriers always accepted them. Same for the return. I must say it had never occurred to me that this might not be allowed.

 

[AlbertBeale]

When I lived in Walthamstow I used to use Maltese Cross tickets with Walthamstow Central as the origin and get straight on the Victoria Line. The barriers always accepted them. Same for the return. I must say it had never occurred to me that this might not be allowed.

Thanks - good to know. It's a conceptual point I hadn't thought about before, hence my query.

A Kentish Town to Brighton, any permitted with maltese cross, can use the tube/DLR to cross London in exactly the same way as a Cricklewood to Brighton, any permitted with maltese cross.
That's to say, both can be used to travel to Saint Pancras before changing to the tube (as you say), or both can be used on the tube from Kentish Town, and the fact that the former's origin is also Kentish Town doesn't make a difference. There are also "via City Thameslink" season ticket fares, and in other similar cases there can be simpler "not via London" fares.
I understand that the concept of the maltese cross primarily applies to linking two NR journeys as you say, but I don't see an issue if one of them is null.

Thanks.

 

[miklcct]

I've always understood the Maltese Cross tickets to be for using the tube/DLR to link two NR journeys. But if your origin is, eg, Kentish Town, is there any problem with starting your cross-London transfer there, even though that's the start of your journey and you haven't used NR first? Or is there a different NR to U1/2 (or similar) ticket that you'd be expected to use instead? (Of course from Kentish Town you can always hop on an NR and then get the tube, which is presumably why it's possible to get that ticket with a Maltese Cross.)

There is no issue here. National Rail Enquiries does suggest the use of such ticket for such journeys, for example, Woking to Queen's Park even though a ticket to Underground Zones 1-2 is cheaper.

I always use a ticket starting from West Hampstead Stations, routed +Any Permitted, to start directly at West Hampstead (Underground) for the cross-London tube journey to Victoria.

 

[yorkie]

I've always understood the Maltese Cross tickets to be for using the tube/DLR to link two NR journeys. But if your origin is, eg, Kentish Town, is there any problem with starting your cross-London transfer there, even though that's the start of your journey and you haven't used NR first? Or is there a different NR to U1/2 (or similar) ticket that you'd be expected to use instead? (Of course from Kentish Town you can always hop on an NR and then get the tube, which is presumably why it's possible to get that ticket with a Maltese Cross.)

West Hampstead through to Elephant & Castle / London Bridge is inter-available anyway; whether you use NR or LU is immaterial

 

[SAPhil]

West Hampstead through to Elephant & Castle / London Bridge is inter-available anyway; whether you use NR or LU is immaterial

During the recent RMT strike on Sat 29th, trains from the North were only running to St Pancras. I needed to go to either London Bridge or the Elephant but was only offered a travelcard by the online planner. I had thought that theoretically a ticket to London Thameslink should have been valid using the tube but didn't feel that I could be bothered to have the argument if I'd tried it! Presumably a London Thameslink ticket won't work the barriers?

 

[miklcct]

Presumably a London Thameslink ticket won't work the barriers?

I tried. It works the barrier at West Hampstead (Underground).

The ticket I used was London Thameslink to West Hampstead Stations, route Any Permitted, entering at Farringdon and exiting at West Hampstead (Underground).

 

[paul1609]

West Hampstead through to Elephant & Castle / London Bridge is inter-available anyway; whether you use NR or LU is immaterial

Im not sure that is correct. West Hampstead to Elephant & Castle/ London Bridge on NationalRail is treated as being in Zone U1. National Rail Tickets (e.g London Thameslink) are not available on LU. Through Railtickets + can be used on either.

 

[Haywain]

Im not sure that is correct. West Hampstead to Elephant & Castle/ London Bridge on NationalRail is treated as being in Zone U1. National Rail Tickets (e.g London Thameslink) are not available on LU. Through Railtickets + can be used on either.

It is correct, although there are some limitations:

National Rail tickets which include validity
Between West Hampstead Thameslink OR Kentish Town and London Thameslink Group stations (London St Pancras Intl, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge, Elephant & Castle)

are also valid on LU / DLR services
between West Hampstead / Kentish Town and Kings Cross-St Pancras Und / Farringdon / Blackfriars / London Bridge / Elephant & Castle via any reasonable route but NOT intermediately, and also NOT where tickets are routed ‘THAMESLINK ONLY’, ‘LDN NOT UNDERGROUND’, 'VIA CITY THAMESLINK' or ‘NOT UNDERGROUND'

 

[paul1609]

It is correct, although there are some limitations:

Indeed but from south of London anyway nearly every non Travel card ticket to London Thames link is either Thames link Only or Not Underground.

 

[Haywain]

Indeed but from south of London anyway nearly every non Travel card ticket to London Thames link is either Thames link Only or Not Underground.

From the south tickets to London Thameslink won't include validity "Between West Hampstead Thameslink OR Kentish Town and London Thameslink Group stations", so it won't apply. It's really only applicable to Midland Main Line Thameslink tickets.

 

[yorkie]

Indeed but from south of London anyway nearly every non Travel card ticket to London Thames link is either Thames link Only or Not Underground.

The question from @AlbertBeale was regarding cross London transfers; my reply was purely in the context of the question asked, so I didn't address the issue of any other tickets.