Manchester Central

[Philip]

Is there any possibility that this station could be reopened in order to take a lot of the pressure off the line through Oxford Road and Piccadilly? The building still looks in good condition and fairly accessible. With trams running through from Deansgate to the Airport, you could make an interchange between the two stations (Central and G-Mex tram stop) and thus reduce the number of rail services going through to the Airport (and freeing up paths on that line) by putting them into Manchester Central. I'm thinking of all of the services that will be using the Ordsall Chord when it opens and perhaps all of the services from Liverpool and North Wales currently running into Piccadilly.

Surprised there is talk of Mayfield platforms reopening but nothing has been mentioned about reopening Central!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Erm, it's in use as an exhibition centre.

 

[Philip]

Erm, it's in use as an exhibition centre.

You could put a similar argument forward for the steam train running out of Liverpool Road, but that wasn't spared when plans for the Ordsall Chord became firm.

I'm sure if the DfT had serious plans for reopening the station then this would take precedence over retaining the exhibition centre.

 

[fireftrm]

Simple answer - No

 

[plannerman]

You could put a similar argument forward for the steam train running out of Liverpool Road, but that wasn't spared when plans for the Ordsall Chord became firm.

I'm sure if the DfT had serious plans for reopening the station then this would take precedence over retaining the exhibition centre.

The two cases are in no way similar. The exhibition centre is a flourishing private business, the cost to the railway industry of buying it would be hundreds of millions, and if they went down a compulsory purchase route the legal wrangles would go on for years. It's a total non-starter.

 

[Altfish]

Simple answer - No

Spot on, not a chance. There are other reasons too...

• Approach viaducts. One is used by Metrolink, the other is in a very dubious condition.

• At the throat of the station the Metrolink station takes up most of the land

• It faces in the wrong direction.

 

[DarloRich]

Is there any possibility that this station could be reopened in order to take a lot of the pressure off the line through Oxford Road and Piccadilly? The building still looks in good condition and fairly accessible. With trams running through from Deansgate to the Airport, you could make an interchange between the two stations (Central and G-Mex tram stop) and thus reduce the number of rail services going through to the Airport (and freeing up paths on that line) by putting them into Manchester Central. I'm thinking of all of the services that will be using the Ordsall Chord when it opens and perhaps all of the services from Liverpool and North Wales currently running into Piccadilly.

Surprised there is talk of Mayfield platforms reopening but nothing has been mentioned about reopening Central!

no chance this side of hell freezing over - the current owners might object to loosing their nice conference and exhibition centre...............

 

[dggar]

Surprised there is talk of Mayfield platforms reopening but nothing has been mentioned about reopening Central!

What talk?

Watcher Zero has mentioned many times that remaining bird cage structure is no longer suitable so unless you rip up the metro tracks how are your trains going to get in to Central?

I believe Metrolink do not recommend using the tram to get from the city centre to the airport.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

• The route south eastwards from Throstle Nest to Didsbury has a tramway on it
• The only way to connect to anything on the east also requires re-opening the route through Fallowfield to Fairfield which isn't going to be quick
• It'd wouldn't help things to have a third terminus in the city

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What talk?

Much gibberish spouted, but not by realists ...

 

[Philip]

I didn't mention running services along the old CLC/Midland route that is now a tram route through Didsbury, I was thinking more along the lines of a spur either just before Castlefield Junction and under the viaducts then up into Central, or just after Castlefield and then under the Metrolink and up into Central. I don't see why having a third terminus station is a problem?

 

[Greenback]

It's a problem because of the practical and financial considerations, as the replies have tried to explain.

 

[Philip]

It's a problem because of the practical and financial considerations, as the replies have tried to explain.

No I was referring to the mention of simply having a third terminus station in the city being a problem, not specifically the problems they would encounter by reopening Central. I'm not denying there would be financial and practical problems, but in the long run would it not be worth considering with the amount of capacity it would free up? That's my question really.

 

[TheGrew]

Isn't the capacity problem going to be largely solved by an extra 2 through platforms at Piccadilly which is really the current pinch point.

 

[Greenback]

No I was referring to the mention of simply having a third terminus station in the city being a problem, not specifically the problems they would encounter by reopening Central. I'm not denying there would be financial and practical problems, but in the long run would it not be worth considering with the amount of capacity it would free up? That's my question really.

Is another terminal station needed at all? It seems that through platforms are more flexible and they feed into the long established principle that the railway industry prefers to join services together rather than have trains spending a lot of time sitting in a terminal station being turned round.

 

[Altfish]

Isn't the capacity problem going to be largely solved by an extra 2 through platforms at Piccadilly which is really the current pinch point.

That is part of the solution. But also...
Upgrading of Victoria and diversion of some of the TPE expresses and Northern services through/into there.
Longer platforms at Oxford Road
Longer term we will hopefully have HS2 platforms at Piccadilly.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Much gibberish spouted, but not by realists ...

This forum so desperately needs a "Like" button.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Surprised there is talk of Mayfield platforms reopening but nothing has been mentioned about reopening Central!

You must have missed an enormous number of "aspirational" Manchester Central hoped-for reopening postings over the last few years on this website....:roll:

Nym appears to have made a goodly number of these.

 

[HowardGWR]

I haven't read anything here that didn't belong under the 'Ordsall Chord' thread, (putting forward yet another option, which makes no sense).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Erm, it's in use as an exhibition centre.

Party conferences have been held there, so the political parties know its true use in the 21st century.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I was thinking more along the lines of a spur either just before Castlefield Junction and under the viaducts then up into Central, or just after Castlefield and then under the Metrolink and up into Central.

From where / which line, in each case?

 

[Philip]

From where / which line, in each case?

The former option; it would leave the Ordsall Lane-Castlefield junction section of line just before it goes under the disused GN Castlefield viaduct and after the Ordsall chord junction. The latter; basically just after Castlefield junction and the viaducts, before Deansgate station.

 

[Altfish]

The former option; it would leave the Ordsall Lane-Castlefield junction section of line just before it goes under the disused GN Castlefield viaduct and after the Ordsall chord junction. The latter; basically just after Castlefield junction and the viaducts, before Deansgate station.

That would take the line through the Roman remains of Castlefield and require them to knock down Beetham Tower (you could talk me into that!) and other modern buildings. There would also be a significant gradient to get into the newly opened Central Station.

 

[telstarbox]

To look at it another way - if the old station building wasn't still there you wouldn't be thinking about building a new station on that land.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

The former option; it would leave the Ordsall Lane-Castlefield junction section of line just before it goes under the disused GN Castlefield viaduct and after the Ordsall chord junction. The latter; basically just after Castlefield junction and the viaducts, before Deansgate station.

So, in the former case that's a gradient of about 1 in 100, possibly costly as Altfish suggests and with massive archaeology issues, but the new junction would be toe to toe with Water Street Junction, on a viaduct; in the latter you're proposing a flat junction toe to toe with Castlefield junction, on a listed bridge, in a space about 50 m long and then a gradient of about 1 in 30 on a bridge over the Deansgate road junction (this assumes you can rise under the Metrolink viaduct, through the Comedy Store, which I doubt).

Put the crayons down ...

 

[krus_aragon]

To look at it another way - if the old station building wasn't still there you wouldn't be thinking about building a new station on that land.

Hear, hear.

 

[andyb2706]

Party conferences have been held there, so the political parties know its true use in the 21st century.

More importantly it was where the Manchester Beer and Cider festival was held this year, we need to get our priorities right
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So, in the former case that's a gradient of about 1 in 100, possibly costly as Altfish suggests and with massive archaeology issues, but the new junction would be toe to toe with Water Street Junction, on a viaduct; in the latter you're proposing a flat junction toe to toe with Castlefield junction, on a listed bridge, in a space about 50 m long and then a gradient of about 1 in 30 on a bridge over the Deansgate road junction (this assumes you can rise under the Metrolink viaduct, through the Comedy Store, which I doubt).

Put the crayons down ...

Definitely agree with Philip Phlopp we definitely in need of a "like" button.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

More importantly it was where the Manchester Beer and Cider festival was held this year, we need to get our priorities right

ab-so-lute-ly

Definitely agree with Philip Phlopp we definitely in need of a "like" button.

Again I agree

 

[muddythefish]

No I was referring to the mention of simply having a third terminus station in the city being a problem, not specifically the problems they would encounter by reopening Central. I'm not denying there would be financial and practical problems, but in the long run would it not be worth considering with the amount of capacity it would free up? That's my question really.

Manchester (and London and the rest of the UK) needs more through stations not terminus stations. Terminus stations are my main objection to HS2.

 

[6Gman]

The former option; it would leave the Ordsall Lane-Castlefield junction section of line just before it goes under the disused GN Castlefield viaduct and after the Ordsall chord junction. The latter; basically just after Castlefield junction and the viaducts, before Deansgate station.

Two questions.

Would these be flat junctions?

What services would run into New Central?

[On the first question I had the 'pleasure' today of taking 18 minutes to get from Salford Crescent to Piccadilly, caused by conflicts at:

Windsor Bridge South Junction
Ordsall Lane Junction
Castlefield Junction.

More flat junctions not wanted! ]

 

[SodTheDrummer]

I didn't mention running services along the old CLC/Midland route that is now a tram route through Didsbury, I was thinking more along the lines of a spur either just before Castlefield Junction and under the viaducts then up into Central, or just after Castlefield and then under the Metrolink and up into Central. I don't see why having a third terminus station is a problem?

Sorry bud, but ain't ever going to happen. Maybe if they hadn't closed it it could still feature, its a beautiful building and its a shame it's not being used as it was designed, but times change and Labour governments occasionally get elected to ruin the country's economy and infrastructure... (I expect severe grief for that statement, but hey, this is a forum for debate..)

At least the building is still standing and being used, unlike a lot of railway stations closed during the 60's and 70's...