Manchester Metrolink master thread

[martin2345uk]

Purdy said this week that they were planning to open the line this summer, so fingers crossed everyone!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Purdy said this week that they were planning to open the line this summer, so fingers crossed everyone!

Some "good news" as this would surely have had an entry about it posted upon the TfGM media centre board on its website, to act as a check on all the other "bad press" Metrolink reported problems......but alas, I see no such announcement this evening when I looked at it.

 

[martin2345uk]

I guess he doesn't want to commit himself quite so publicly as to put it on a website. That is however most definitely what he said in the presentation / question and answer session he gave last week in the Rain Bar boardroom.

Edit - think it might have already been mentioned but he also confirmed he was hoping to open the east manchester line to velopark in advance of opening to droylsden, and they are currently putting together a business case for the building of the line to port salford via the Trafford Centre although obviously no funding exists as yet...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They are currently putting together a business case for the building of the line to Port Salford, via the Trafford Centre, although obviously no funding exists as yet...

I don't want to go through the same explanation again, as this matter has been discussed in depth at least twice already in the past on the forum, but whilst Peel Holdings do retain much of a presence in this part of the North-West Region, they have sold off their interests in the Trafford Centre and when the Port Salford project was first mooted, it was expected that Peel Holdings would make a financial contribution to the line costs, on account of their involvement with the Trafford Centre.

 

[martin2345uk]

That's nice but I was merely repeating what Phillip Purdy stated, I have no knowledge other than that!

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Purdy said this week that they were planning to open the line this summer, so fingers crossed everyone!

The Tamworth and The Gloucester Old Spot are currently undergoing safety checks ready for a potential take off...

 

[martin2345uk]

I don't know what those are..! They sound like pubs?

 

[Samtron2000]

Although Peel technically sold the TC to Capital Shopping Centres, they became CSC major shareholder at 40% and John Whittaker became CSC's Deputy Chairman. Believe me, Peel are still very much in charge at the TC!!!

 

[Chapeltom]

I don't know what those are..! They sound like pubs?

I thought Tamworth's and Gloucester Old Spot were breeds of pig?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Although Peel technically sold the TC to Capital Shopping Centres, they became CSC major shareholder at 40% and John Whittaker became CSC's Deputy Chairman. Believe me, Peel are still very much in charge at the TC!!!

But would you really think that they will now make any financial contribution to the Port Salford extension to the Metrolink system, with much of their financial committment being their other projects ? There is the matter of the other 60% of the shareholders in Capital Shopping Centres to consider.

 

[Samtron2000]

But would you really think that they will now make any financial contribution to the Port Salford extension to the Metrolink system, with much of their financial committment being their other projects ? There is the matter of the other 60% of the shareholders in Capital Shopping Centres to consider.

Its my belief they would. Peels 40% makes them the majority shareholder . The 'sale' to CSC was more of an equity release! Having done some work recently for CSC, it's clear that the TC is still very much John Whittaker's baby. As much as the man doesn't like spending cash unless it makes HIM money, I reckon Peel/Whittaker feel the time is right to cough up!

 

[telstarbox]

Peel also retain their HQ at the TC.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

....although obviously no funding exists as yet...

This, from the actual statement made in an earlier posting, still remains the most relevant matter. If this route is critically important, why then was it not included in the funding that was granted to enable the current project extension works to proceed. Could it have been that the area in question has already been given the line to Eccles and also the Media City UK project on the same line?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Peel also retain their HQ at the TC.

This is a commercial decision on their part, as that establishment lies on the line of a motorway network, which allows ease of travel to and from their headquarters.

 

[Samtron2000]

TfGM have always stated this line would only proceed if it was funded by significant private contributions! The fact that Mr Purdy implies this will be the next line AND it now appears on Metrolink future maps again suggests there have been discussions with funders. It's also important to remember that the TC is no longer the planned terminus! It's intended to run to 'Port Salford', peels huge container base planned for the Ship Canal at Barton. From what I've heard, they also have plans for a huge P&R site next to this. Like I said, Whittaker will only invest if it returns!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's intended to run to 'Port Salford', Peel's huge container base planned for the Ship Canal at Barton. From what I've heard, they also have plans for a huge P&R site next to this. Like I said, Whittaker will only invest if it returns!

In the phrase made famous by Mrs Slocombe in "Are you being served"....We are both "unanimous" in this..

 

[WatcherZero]

Word is also some funding has been found from the 2012 Budgets City Deal signed with Greater Manchester, a tax increment cashback has been agreed in principle (with the formula still to be decided) that would allow GM to claim back upto £30m per year for 30 years of any extra tax revenues generated for central Government from the £1.2bn Transport Investment Fund starting from 2015.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Word is also some funding has been found from the 2012 Budgets City Deal signed with Greater Manchester, a tax increment cashback has been agreed in principle (with the formula still to be decided) that would allow GM to claim back up to £30m per year for 30 years of any extra tax revenues generated for central Government from the £1.2bn Transport Investment Fund starting from 2015.

With the Eccles Line and the Media City UK already being in the Port Salford region, there will surely be protestations made from the councils of other areas (such as Wigan and Stockport) that are administered by TfGM, who are not to benefit from the latest four regional extensions to the Metrolink system. What are the "future" Metrolink forward extension plans, beside that of Port Salford, noting that Rose Hill Marple seems always to be "tram-train" in statements and Leigh already having the Guided Busway system in its early stages.

 

[WatcherZero]

Several years ago when deciding the projects for the Transport Fund a list of schemes was drawn up, these were then ranked by economic return. They then financed each project going down the list till they ran out of money, when more money becomes available they continue going down the list until they reach the end. For the last decade Bolton and Wigan recieved extra funds through a rebate that could only be spent on transport to compensate them for Metrolink not running through or directly benefitting their districts (other districts it didnt run through were judged to benefit indirectly), this has now ended but there are many projects on the list that do benefit them, Bolton Interchange, Leigh Guided Bus and Wigan Inner Relief Road in particular.

 

[Nym]

With the Eccles Line and the Media City UK already being in the Port Salford region, there will surely be protestations made from the councils of other areas (such as Wigan and Stockport) that are administered by TfGM, who are not to benefit from the latest four regional extensions to the Metrolink system. What are the "future" Metrolink forward extension plans, beside that of Port Salford, noting that Rose Hill Marple seems always to be "tram-train" in statements and Leigh already having the Guided Busway system in its early stages.

Not to mention Bolton, currently having it's rail capacity to soon be dractically reduced, and some prime real estate available at the station for lines to radiate out towards Bury, onto Rochdale with Tram Trains? (rather busy bus route) and Trafford via Walkden, (Bolton - Moses Gate - Farnworth - Walkden - Worsley - ?Eccles - ?Port Salford - Trafford Centre)

Stockport could really do with the E Dids line reaching there (although it would have been better off with it being re-opened as heavy rail so it can take services from Hazel Grove, but we're stuck with Metrolink now, see the recent HS2 discussion on how that can help)

Oh, and Bolton Interchange would be nice, Leigh Guided busway should just go away and die quietly, to be replaced with an electrified heavy rail line linking into Walkden for Victoria via Salford Crescent, and Wigan doesn't need an Inner Releif Road, it needs the M58 to be FINISHED!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For the last decade Bolton and Wigan recieved extra funds through a rebate that could only be spent on transport to compensate them for Metrolink not running through or directly benefitting their districts (other districts it didnt run through were judged to benefit indirectly), this has now ended.

Thank you for this information. This just leaves the matter of Stockport. What was the indirect benefit for that particular area?

 

[WatcherZero]

Traffic, was thought with Altrincham line it relieved their roads and they could park and ride into the city. Course now the South Manchester lines benefit them even more.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

South Manchester "improvements" afforded by the Metrolink system are not really looked on as benefiting Stockport (unlike Chorlton and East Didsbury), by the residents of those parts of Stockport such as Brinnington, Romiley, Marple, Hazel Grove, High Lane, Hawk Green, Offerton, Bramhall and Woodford, to whom Parrs Wood seems to be very far away.

The nearest part of Stockport to directly benefit will be North Reddish, but that will be by the East Manchester Metrolink line to Ashton-under-Lyne.

 

[martin2345uk]

In other news, one of the regulars on SSC has just posted a photo of what is probably the first platform sections now installed on the airport line, at Benchill stop. Pretty good going for a line not due to open until 2016!

 

[WatcherZero]

South Manchester "improvements" afforded by the Metrolink system are not really looked on as benefiting Stockport (unlike Chorlton and East Didsbury), by the residents of those parts of Stockport such as Brinnington, Romiley, Marple, Hazel Grove, High Lane, Hawk Green, Offerton, Bramhall and Woodford, to whom Parrs Wood seems to be very far away.

The nearest part of Stockport to directly benefit will be North Reddish, but that will be by the East Manchester Metrolink line to Ashton-under-Lyne.

Still benefits them indirectly as they benefit from congestion relief. Also originally planned the line would continue into Stockport and even in its present ending point makes extension in the future far more likely.

 

[Mattmatt]

South Manchester "improvements" afforded by the Metrolink system are not really looked on as benefiting Stockport (unlike Chorlton and East Didsbury), by the residents of those parts of Stockport such as Brinnington, Romiley, Marple, Hazel Grove, High Lane, Hawk Green, Offerton, Bramhall and Woodford, to whom Parrs Wood seems to be very far away.

The nearest part of Stockport to directly benefit will be North Reddish, but that will be by the East Manchester Metrolink line to Ashton-under-Lyne.

I must ask; do you live in that area; Reddish North is so far away from a new metrolink stop. You'd still have to get a couple indirect of buses to the nearest stop. By the time you've reached a new stop you could have travelled into Manchester several times by train from Reddish North.

One of better ways of getting Metrolink into Stockport; Tram-train on the Marple route, with a branch off at Reddish Vale using the former route (don't know it's name) and Trans-Pennine trail. Thus bringing it into Stockport, covering Brinnington, Tesco's, Lancashire Hill etc & then utilising the roads into Stockport. It's fairly direct, covers a number stockport areas.
any thoughts?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Still benefits them indirectly as they benefit from congestion relief. Also originally planned the line would continue into Stockport and even in its present ending point makes extension in the future far more likely.

Would the "congestion relief" to which you refer, be the funding given to provide the "bus lane" system on the A6 between Stockport and the route into Manchester ? Whilst being good for public transport, this system has channelled two lanes of traffic into only one lane for other road users and as far as they are concerned, the "congestion" has grown worse on the A6.

Originally, as you will be aware, Stockport would have greatly benefited from the full SEMMS project had it not been "mothballed" by John Prescott, despite the A555 being constructed to its full specification between Bramhall and Handforth. This results in the entire length of Finney Lane in Heald Green (part of Stockport) still being a main feeder route to Manchester Airport. Again, I speak from seeing this with my own eyes when I was invited to view this congested traffic flow, by a group of road users (both public and private), which affects the bus services 312, 368 and 369 as well as the private and commercial vehicles. "Congestion" is very much alive and well in Heald Green.

The approval given at last for the completion of the SEMMS scheme will not see it coming to total fruition for many years hence.

 

[Nym]

And even now, it won't be completed all the way to Bredbury from what I have read, considering it was supposed to be THE M60... With the M63 running through Stockport.

With the change to the layout around Manchester of Motorways, it would still be rather helpful for the A555 to become a motorway of some kind, and if I'm thinking right, M56 could well fit this, people will then drive on the blue line with the same number, avoiding the current M56 unless the're aiming for the A34 Kingsway into Manchester or Central Stockport, and all 'ring road' traffic will route out via Bredbury, would need some small modifications to signage on the M56 with more priority given to traffic leaving onto the 'new' M56, but it would work if the SEMMS project was built as D3M with D2M under(by)pass at Manchester Airport for through traffic, with airport traffic using a double overhead roundabout type arangement so through traffic doesn't see anything but a nice smooth D2M through Manchester Airport, coming off the M56 (Current) from Manchester the traffic patterns fit too, not as much in the other direction, but it's no worse than some other kak junctions I've seen, and if it gets bad, a S2MS junction bypass can be put in to access the M56West.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

North Reddish is so far away from a new metrolink stop. You'd still have to get a couple indirect of buses to the nearest stop. By the time you've reached a new stop you could have travelled into Manchester several times by train from Reddish North......any thoughts?

I thank you for helping me to prove that any area of Stockport (with the possible exception of Heaton Moor) will not obtain any travelling benefit from the Metrolink system for years to come.

The main A57 road from Manchester to Denton that passes the northern border of North Reddish is in need of some relief, at times, as the M67 from Denton eastwards grinds to a halt just past Hattersley, being a problem that has affected the traffic flows in Hollingworth and Tintwistle for far too many years now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Back to Manchester Metrolink matters in the pipeline, a formal application has been made to the Government for the required powers to operate the Second City Crossing line from St Peters Square to Manchester Victoria station which will include one new station at Exchange Square.

 

[martin2345uk]

Indeed, with construction due to start next year and completion hoped for in 2016 to tie in with the Wythenshawe & Airport Line exciting times ahead!