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Manchester Metrolink

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Welshman

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Why do certain trams which are terminating at Piccadilly go forward to Velopark to reverse?

I appreciate this has probably been answered before, but I'm afraid I wasn't paying much attention. However, today I went specially from North Wales to Manchester to travel over the Mid-Cheshire line diversion, and while I was there, sampled the run to Droylsden.

The turn-back siding at Piccadilly was empty, but I noted several trams going "Not in Service" to Velopark and back. Does anyone know why there is this extra dead mileage?
 
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34D

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Believe capacity in the turnback, though I agree that seems very strange
 

edwin_m

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At present the Altrincham, Bury, Eccles and Media City trams run into Piccadilly every 12min but only the Bury goes forward to Droylsden. They can't reliably turn back three trams in 9min in the Piccadilly (Sheffield Street) turnback and they probably couldn't run any more to Droylsden.

The Ashton route is supposed to have a tram every 6min when complete, so the Piccadilly turnback will then only be used every 6min.
 

Welshman

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Ah - thank you, 34D for the general answer and edwin_m for the details.
 

Starmill

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The most commonly asserted explanations are summed up pretty well by the following two quotes:

Most of the time, four trams arrive outbound at Piccadilly per 12 minute cycle: ex-Altrincham, ex-Eccles, ex-MediaCity and ex-Bury. The first two terminate there and reverse in the Sheffield Street turnback. The MediaCity service continues 'ECS' to the turnback at Velopark, last I checked they do this in the Velopark outbound platform. The Bury services, of course, run in service through to Droylsden.


Its partly that the Sheffield Street turnback siding isn't giving them the capacity they expected I think but also the Media City trams were supposed to turn back at Cornbrook not Piccadilly so there's currently a third more trams terminating at Piccadilly than planned. The under construction third platform at Victoria should give them better city centre terminal capacity.

They are also considering a third platform at Deansgate Castlefield as part of 2CC but its not been approved yet and may rely on office/residential tower development around Manchester Central for funding.

Basically, they don't want to try to reverse 3 trams in a single turnback (which can only hold two vehicles and only has access at one end) per 12-minute cycle. Some people think that the turnback could cope with reversing the full 15tph, but TfGM do not share this optimism (apparently... I am not in contact with Metrolink's management!); I can understand their unwillingness to introduce even more unreliability into the system than it already has, even though it costs them an extra tram on the duty to maintain the 12-minute headway. To the best of my knowledge, reversing all of them there has never been tried anyway, because whenever there is an event at City and there are extra doubles on running Victoria - Etihad Campus, the MCUK shuttles seem to be cancelled and the Eccles service runs via MediaCity. Weather this is because the trams need to be borrowed from the Picc-MCUK service to run the special doubles or just because, with the doubles using the turnback at Velopark there is just nowhere for the MCUK service to reverse, is open to debate.
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The Ashton route is supposed to have a tram every 6min when complete, so the Piccadilly turnback will then only be used every 6min.

Indeed. Eventually, the current MediaCity service will turn back at Cornbrook and the frontrunner for extension to Ashton, along with the current 5tph from Bury will be the 5tph from Eccles.

This comfortably spreads the turnbacks (in theory!!!): 5 at Cornbrook (ex-MediaCity) 5 at Piccadilly (ex-Altrincham) and 10 at Ashton (5 ex-Eccles and 5 ex-Bury).
 

34D

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I don't see why the mediacity services can't run in service to near Velopark, at least until they cut them back to mediacity.
 

Welshman

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Thank you, starmill, for the even more-detailed explanation. :D
 

edwin_m

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I don't see why the mediacity services can't run in service to near Velopark, at least until they cut them back to mediacity.

They probably could, but extra stops might slow them down and (except on event days) the demand at the stops New Islington to Velopark isn't exactly huge.
 

Manchester77

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Media City Trams reverse at Velopark because Sheffield Street cannot cope with any more trams reversing, this is because of lack of TMS there. Currently to run out of service to Velopark requires one extra tram than when it turned at the old Piccadilly terminating crossover. If it was to call at stops between Piccadilly and Velopark it'd require additional trams to maintain the 12 minutes service and as more double M5000s are being introduced this would be impracticle and a waste. This procedure will stop when Deansgate - Cornbook is converted to TMS meaning the turnback at Cornbrook can actually be used thus creating extra paths across the city and viaduct increasing capacity and adding slack into the timetable making the network more reliable and recoverable in the event of a delay.

Apologies if I've trod on what others have said I only skimmed the thread ;)

EDIT - regarding the above point, on event days they run football specials anyway which go Victoria - Piccadilly - Velopark so even then it'd be pointless. On match days the media services are combined with Eccles services because the turnback is used by football specials
 

Starmill

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Media City Trams reverse at Velopark because Sheffield Street cannot cope with any more trams reversing, this is because of lack of TMS there. Currently to run out of service to Velopark requires one extra tram than when it turned at the old Piccadilly terminating crossover. If it was to call at stops between Piccadilly and Velopark it'd require additional trams to maintain the 12 minutes service and as more double M5000s are being introduced this would be impracticle and a waste. This procedure will stop when Deansgate - Cornbook is converted to TMS meaning the turnback at Cornbrook can actually be used thus creating extra paths across the city and viaduct increasing capacity and adding slack into the timetable making the network more reliable and recoverable in the event of a delay.

I thought TMS was now working all the way from Droylsden to the City Centre inclusive?


Anyway, yes demand at Velopark (it would be in the wrong platform here anyway), Etihad Campus, Holt Town and New Islington is microscopic when there are no events on atm :( And despite not stopping, the MCUK service still sometimes holds up the in service tram from Droylsden on its way into Piccadilly! They have to run slowly through all the platforms :(
 

Manchester77

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I thought it stops just after PIC otherwise EML would have the initial planned 6 minute frequency. And I think in one of those TfGM committee reports says the interim system is in use on ORL, SML, EML with TMS in CC and ECC line and heavy rail fixed block in the other places
 
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