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Manchester Piccadilly - Avanti use platform 5

Peter0124

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Hi, according to RTT, a lot of Avanti services seem to be using Platform 5 now rather than 7. Platform 7 seems to have all of the Northern services using it, why the swap?
Platform 6 is being used for Avanti as normal.
 
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DMU180

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Unsure of the exact reason but is there a performance benefit? Looks like using platform 5 and 7 allows for a simultaneous arrival and departure.
 

Signal Head

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Unsure of the exact reason but is there a performance benefit? Looks like using platform 5 and 7 allows for a simultaneous arrival and departure.
Simultaneous departure from 5 and arrival into 7 (or 6 for that matter), but the other way round would I suspect require crossing the Down arrival onto the Up Fast at Ardwick, while the Up departure leaves on the Down Fast and has to cross to the Up between the throat and Ardwick. The two movements would share a portion of track, so timing could be critical in avoiding bringing one to a stand.
 

jfollows

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(Still) using platforms 5 & 6 today, for whatever reason. Sharing a single island (as in 6 & 7) seems to make more sense. So presumably another reason for the change.
 

QueensCurve

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Historically Platforms 1 to 4 were electrified at 1500V DC. Does the track layout favour those for the "East" lines?
 

jfollows

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Historically Platforms 1 to 4 were electrified at 1500V DC. Does the track layout favour those for the "East" lines?
Slightly.
Today: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/manchester-piccadilly-platform-12.261069/#post-6590056
Previously: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/line-pairings-on-a-4-track-railway.241547/#post-6003988
When the voltages were different it was unheard of for western trains to transgress onto the eastern side, and vice-versa, except when required (Harwich Boat Train ran into platform 5 because the engine had to run round).
Nowadays platform 4 is used for services to Stockport and beyond, I used it on Saturday evening on a service to Wilmslow via Styal. I've used it for Pendolino services to London in the past too.
The diagram above shows 1V53 on platform 3 also. 11:03 to Bristol Temple Meads today.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Happy to be corrected, but believe that all platforms remain accessible (depending on train length) on the approach into Manchester Piccadilly until Ardwick Junction is passed, but some moves, e.g. coming off the Styal Line before terminating at platform 1, would normally never ever happen, because of the large number of conflicting moves resulting, across the station throat.
 

Greybeard33

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Scanning platform usage by Avanti on RTT over the past week, nearly all M-F services are booked to use P6 or P7 in the WTT. But P5 has been fairly consistently substituted for P7 M-F daytimes, with P7 only used early mornings and evenings.
 

jfollows

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Scanning platform usage by Avanti on RTT over the past week, nearly all M-F services are booked to use P6 or P7 in the WTT. But P5 has been fairly consistently substituted for P7 M-F daytimes, with P7 only used early mornings and evenings.
… which is pretty much what the first post above says, yes. There will be a reason, there always is …..
 

plugwash

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Happy to be corrected, but believe that all platforms remain accessible (depending on train length) on the approach into Manchester Piccadilly until Ardwick Junction is passed, but some moves, e.g. coming off the Styal Line before terminating at platform 1, would normally never ever happen, because of the large number of conflicting moves resulting, across the station throat.
It used to be common for trains to use the terminus platforms as part of a through journey. It became less common after the introduction of the ordsall chord which diverted the airport-leeds services via 13/14 and victoria and even less common when most of the sheffield <-> manchester airport services were cut back at picadilly.

There don't seem to be any trains booked from the airport to platform 1, but there does seem to be one booked from the airport to platform 3 before reversing and heading off to sheffield via huddersfield. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G67233/2024-01-23/detailed#allox_id=1
 

waterboo

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According to a linkedin post from a Performance Improvement Manager at Avanti(which I'm struggling to find again) - the use of platform 5 is for the performance benefit (simultaneous arrivals and departures), but additionally platform 5 offers a better PTI (platform train interface) corridor for the dispatchers.
 

northwichcat

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Scanning RTT there's been a number of unusual platform allocations today. Chester, Hadfield and Bournemouth departures from platform 2, Rose Hill Marple and Macclesfield from platform 8 etc.
 

Thomas6187

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Scanning RTT there's been a number of unusual platform allocations today. Chester, Hadfield and Bournemouth departures from platform 2, Rose Hill Marple and Macclesfield from platform 8 etc.
That's because there has been lots of disruption in South Manchester today. There has been point failures at Marple, Cheadle Hulme and Longport plus and unfortunate incident early this morning at Congleton
 

Greybeard33

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According to a linkedin post from a Performance Improvement Manager at Avanti(which I'm struggling to find again) - the use of platform 5 is for the performance benefit (simultaneous arrivals and departures), but additionally platform 5 offers a better PTI (platform train interface) corridor for the dispatchers.
Remind me, how many years was it that Virgin then Avanti operated from P7, before this light bulb lit up in someone's head? :lol:
 

QueensCurve

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Slightly.
Today: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/manchester-piccadilly-platform-12.261069/#post-6590056
Previously: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/line-pairings-on-a-4-track-railway.241547/#post-6003988
When the voltages were different it was unheard of for western trains to transgress onto the eastern side, and vice-versa, except when required (Harwich Boat Train ran into platform 5 because the engine had to run round).
Nowadays platform 4 is used for services to Stockport and beyond, I used it on Saturday evening on a service to Wilmslow via Styal. I've used it for Pendolino services to London in the past too.
The diagram above shows 1V53 on platform 3 also. 11:03 to Bristol Temple Meads today.
Thank you.
 

The Planner

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According to a linkedin post from a Performance Improvement Manager at Avanti(which I'm struggling to find again) - the use of platform 5 is for the performance benefit (simultaneous arrivals and departures), but additionally platform 5 offers a better PTI (platform train interface) corridor for the dispatchers.
Id seen that as well and can't find it again either, but what you have said is correct.
 

Crossover

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It used to be common for trains to use the terminus platforms as part of a through journey. It became less common after the introduction of the ordsall chord which diverted the airport-leeds services via 13/14 and victoria and even less common when most of the sheffield <-> manchester airport services were cut back at picadilly.

There don't seem to be any trains booked from the airport to platform 1, but there does seem to be one booked from the airport to platform 3 before reversing and heading off to sheffield via huddersfield. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G67233/2024-01-23/detailed#allox_id=1

In an unusual turn of events, whilst that train was booked p3, it actually used to p1 from the Airport last night! (screenshot attached for posterity)
1706100817003.png

Ultimately, these trains have to cross the throat one way or another, but since the introduction of the Ordsall Chord and re-routing of services via Victoria, the extreme moves seem to be now the preserve of early morning/late night trains (where pre that, there were hourly services crossing from Ardwick to and from p13/14)
 

jfollows

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Platforms 5 & 8 seems to be the two being used for Avanti services today.
1A71 (16:35) & 1A74 (17:15) anyway on p8.
 
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