Manchester Piccadilly manual ticket inspection logic

[trover]

Just an interesting experience to share. I was travelling from A to C using two advance tickets, first ticket being A to B, second ticket being B to C changing train at Man Picc. I popped to the shops within the station (not break of journey), ticket passed with no problem.

When returning to the platform side, I presented the same B to C ticket, which was printed in the old paper ticket format - 1 ticket coupon and 2 reservation coupons, with both reservations have MANCHESTER PIC clearly printed on them (obvs as I’m changing here). The staff said he couldn’t see I was changing at Man Picc. As I’ve time before my train departs, I decided to test his logic. I showed him my A to B ticket which had nothing related to Manchester and Man Picc wasn’t printed on it. Guess what? He said “That’s what I wanted to see”, and let me through. The staff members were polite anyway.

I’ve also had Man Picc staff claiming my ticket with 16-25 railcard discount was a 16:25 departure before, amazing. I’ve heard a lot about the incompetence of Man Picc ticket inspection staff but still wish to share it.

 

[Kilopylae]

I’ve also had Man Picc staff claiming my ticket with 16-25 railcard discount was a 16:25 departure before

Words fail me.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

I’ve never had an issue with them. The whole setup at Picc is a tad ridiculous though, with half the platforms gated and half not, and the fact that some people bypass the staff by using the lift directly up to the platforms from street level…

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I’ve never had an issue with them. The whole setup at Picc is a tad ridiculous though, with half the platforms gated and half not, and the fact that some people bypass the staff by using the lift directly up to the platforms from street level…

Similar to Lime St, really, with the northern half (mainly Northern/TPE) gated but the southern half (mainly Avanti/LNWR/TfW) not.
Down below, the Merseyrail main entrance is gated but the lift entrance isn't, though sometimes there's a manual check.

 

[Gathursty]

I’ve never had an issue with them. The whole setup at Picc is a tad ridiculous though, with half the platforms gated and half not, and the fact that some people bypass the staff by using the lift directly up to the platforms from street level…

There was a time when the Fairfield Street lifts were out of use or use was restricted. If they are open all the time now then that is good to hear as I've often just walked past because I've taken it as a given they won't work.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I’ve never had an issue with them. The whole setup at Picc is a tad ridiculous though, with half the platforms gated and half not, and the fact that some people bypass the staff by using the lift directly up to the platforms from street level…

Plus the fact groups of platforms have separate barriers so you have to exit the Avanti platforms and re-enter the TPE platforms, the walkway behind the buffer stops and glass wall having been blocked off. Of course you can always walk south and use the footbridge.

Got pulled up once on a Hadfield to Stockport ticket, exiting at Piccadilly only to re-enter two doors further along (no desire to use the concourse at all). But your ticket says Stockport, this is Manchester Piccadilly. Why yes it does, that's because I have come from Hadfield and am now going to Stockport and this is the only way of doing it!

 

[trover]

Words fail me.

Haha it was noon when my connection was missed, I asked if I could use the next train he told me to go back to the waiting area as it was still a while before 16:25 departure

I’ve never had an issue with them. The whole setup at Picc is a tad ridiculous though, with half the platforms gated and half not, and the fact that some people bypass the staff by using the lift directly up to the platforms from street level…

Similar to Lime St, really, with the northern half (mainly Northern/TPE) gated but the southern half (mainly Avanti/LNWR/TfW) not.
Down below, the Merseyrail main entrance is gated but the lift entrance isn't, though sometimes there's a manual check.

Are both of the stations going to have barriers installed as a requirement for the next contract? But I’d say Lime St is less problemetic as fewer people change trains between the upper level platforms.

Got pulled up once on a Hadfield to Stockport ticket, exiting at Piccadilly only to re-enter two doors further along (no desire to use the concourse at all). But your ticket says Stockport, this is Manchester Piccadilly. Why yes it does, that's because I have come from Hadfield and am now going to Stockport and this is the only way of doing it!

Not sure if you were using paper tickets, anyway they shouldn’t have said that no matter medium of ticket you were presenting as they should be able to check had they been competent, but mine had two MANCHESTER PIC printed and was clearly visible. I’m curious how many passengers had missed their connection spending time arguing explaining with the gateline staff if the connection was tight or the previous leg was slightly delayed.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Not sure if you were using paper tickets, anyway they shouldn’t have said that no matter medium of ticket you were presenting as they should be able to check had they been competent, but mine had two MANCHESTER PIC printed and was clearly visible. I’m curious how many passengers had missed their connection spending time arguing explaining with the gateline staff if the connection was tight or the previous leg was slightly delayed.

It was a paper ticket, it was probably a Carlisle operative, I guess they had limited knowledge of the rail network and also simply read 'destination Stockport' and assumed I had overtravelled rather than being mid-journey. That's the peril of using agency staff and also having ticket checks/barriers in the wrong location. Just as it was when they gripped on the footbridge plaza to/from platforms 13/14.

 

[plugwash]

this is the only way of doing it!

Well most of the week anyway

 

[L401CJF]

Ive had the staff question me at Man Picc before whilst in TOC uniform, with staff card, on duty!!!

I assume the guy that did was new though, as the guy checking on the platform next to it shouted to let me through.

 

[Aaron1]

Sadly in my experience there are too many people working on the railways who literally don't have a clue about the railways, just see my thread from the other week about a EMR conductor threatening me with arrest as he thought my railcard was invalid (it wasn't invalid)

I have also been informed before by national rail enquiries that advance tickets under no circumstances are valid on a later train should I miss my first train through no fault of my own, I got told by them I had to purchase a new ticket as I need to allow atleast an hour wait between connections! I didn't buy a new ticket, I just jumped on the next train and the conductor never said a word.

I've been told by LNER on twitter before that it is not possible to claim delay repay on an anytime ticket as I "should have decided to catch another train" I claimed anyway and of course it got approved.

Of course there are some genuinely knowledgeable staff who do care about helping passengers but unfortunately there are a lot of staff who don't have a clue and they see passengers as an inconvenience, and sadly I have seen on one occasion a member of staff deliberately mislead a passenger then laugh about it to a colleague, luckily a senior member of staff over heard them laugh about it and severely reprimanded them in public.

 

[Djgr]

Sadly in my experience there are too many people working on the railways who literally don't have a clue about the railways, just see my thread from the other week about a EMR conductor threatening me with arrest as he thought my railcard was invalid (it wasn't invalid)

I have also been informed before by national rail enquiries that advance tickets under no circumstances are valid on a later train should I miss my first train through no fault of my own, I got told by them I had to purchase a new ticket as I need to allow atleast an hour wait between connections! I didn't buy a new ticket, I just jumped on the next train and the conductor never said a word.

I've been told by LNER on twitter before that it is not possible to claim delay repay on an anytime ticket as I "should have decided to catch another train" I claimed anyway and of course it got approved.

Of course there are some genuinely knowledgeable staff who do care about helping passengers but unfortunately there are a lot of staff who don't have a clue and they see passengers as an inconvenience, and sadly I have seen on one occasion a member of staff deliberately mislead a passenger then laugh about it to a colleague, luckily a senior member of staff over heard them laugh about it and severely reprimanded them in public.

I am sure that there is nobody on this forum who hasn't had an incident where a member of the railway "industry" has demonstrated that they have less knowledge than themselves (even though they are getting paid for this and you aren't)

 

[Haywain]

I am sure that there is nobody on this forum who hasn't had an incident where a member of the railway "industry" has demonstrated that they have less knowledge than themselves (even though they are getting paid for this and you aren't)

The problem isn’t with rail staff ‘not knowing’, it’s with some of them stubbornly insisting that they’re right rather than looking into things properly. It’s a very complex industry and it is totally unrealistic to expect everybody to know everything.

 

[a_c_skinner]

I've been asked for a photocard to go with a Rover (Halifax). I said it didn't need one and they seemed happy, so not very likely to protect revenue either if they just take the passenger's word.

 

[TUC]

The problem isn’t with rail staff ‘not knowing’, it’s with some of them stubbornly insisting that they’re right rather than looking into things properly. It’s a very complex industry and it is totally unrealistic to expect everybody to know everything.

Except that some people on this forum who don't work for the rail industry know a darn sight more than some of those who do.

 

[The Conductor]

I believe the guys at Piccadilly are private security staff, not NR/TOC employees?

Last Friday I travelled from Hereford to Sheffield. The connection to Sheffield- I realised after I had booked the Hereford-Stockport leg- was the 2142 from MCR which doesn't call at Stockport (it was originally pathed via Romiley when introduced, and this is a stopgap solution according to the Guard). So we had to go in and out of Piccadilly, by when we were desperate for a drink. I thought I would have to do a long story at the barrier to get through to Sainsburys but was waved through once the guy saw I had a ticket, which he never even bothered looking at!!

(The AP fare to Manchester is the same as to Stockport by the way, so I wasn't depriving anyone of revenue!)

 

[Watershed]

I believe the guys at Piccadilly are private security staff, not NR/TOC employees?

Yes, Carlisle Security I understand? I think it used to be STM, or perhaps it's the other way around. Either way, contractors on (near) minimum wage

Last Friday I travelled from Hereford to Sheffield. The connection to Sheffield- I realised after I had booked the Hereford-Stockport leg- was the 2142 from MCR which doesn't call at Stockport (it was originally pathed via Romiley when introduced, and this is a stopgap solution according to the Guard). So we had to go in and out of Piccadilly, by when we were desperate for a drink. I thought I would have to do a long story at the barrier to get through to Sainsburys but was waved through once the guy saw I had a ticket, which he never even bothered looking at!!

Ah, that issue was discussed on the forum here. Surprised to see it hasn't been fully fixed with a Stockport stop inserted!

Technically you probably needed permission to travel via Manchester but in the circumstances, it's very unlikely anyone would quibble.

 

[trover]

Except that some people on this forum who don't work for the rail industry know a darn sight more than some of those who do.

Some (maybe plenty, who knows?) of them not only have a lack of knowledge but also being incompetent of carrying out their duties. The task of ticket inspection staffs is to determine whether a ticket is valid. The knowledge part being passengers can change trains at Man Picc to and from a variety of origins and destinations; the competence part being to read the words printed on tickets. Unfortunately the staff member I interacted with failed in both areas.

I thought I would have to do a long story at the barrier to get through to Sainsburys but was waved through once the guy saw I had a ticket, which he never even bothered looking at!!

I believe it varies from time to time. It was the first time I being asked to present a railcard when exiting the barrier, I’ve never had staff looking at paper tickets closely at barrier, and only a few do that on trains!

Yes, Carlisle Security I understand? I think it used to be STM, or perhaps it's the other way around. Either way, contractors on (near) minimum wage

However passengers would only view them as “the railway staffs” and what they do, either positive or negative, contribute to the image of the railway as a whole.