Manchester Piccadilly platforms 15, 16 pulled, but £72m nearby

[Snow1964]

Manchester Evening z news reported that plans for 2 extra platforms for busy platforms 15 and 16 have been pulled, but £72m going to be spent on other stations

Long-held plans for two new platforms at Manchester's Piccadilly station have been pulled with a 'new approach' to ease congestion on the railways to be prepared. The application which also affects Oxford Road station has been withdrawn by Network Rail with 'alternative options' set to be developed.

The plans for platforms 15 and 16 at Piccadilly which date back more than a decade were drawn up as a solution to the North's crippling rail congestion. But rail bosses will now go back to the drawing board, the government has said as it announces a £72m boost for other train stations in Greater Manchester.

Plans for new Piccadilly platforms to solve Manchester rail chaos pulled

The plans for platforms 15 and 16 were drawn up more than a decade ago as a solution to the North's crippling rail congestion

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

The £72m is DfT money including third platform at Salford Cresent

Passengers across the north are set to benefit from fewer delays and more reliable trains after the government announced a £72 million package in Manchester today (25 May 2023).

At Manchester Victoria Station, Rail Minister Huw Merriman revealed the latest of 4 infrastructure upgrades to improve day-to-day journeys for passengers across the region while supporting productivity and economic growth.

The funding will deliver a third platform at Salford Crescent station and track improvement work across north Manchester to help reduce delays, bottlenecks and station overcrowding, meaning passengers will enjoy more comfortable and reliable journeys.

Manchester Victoria Station will also benefit from extra entry and exit points to platforms, making it easier for passengers to travel through the station during busier periods.

We also have ambitious plans for the future of Manchester Oxford Road. We’re removing our previous planning application so we can move forward with a new approach, something we’ll be consulting residents and businesses on later in the year.

£72 million boost for train services in Manchester and the north

This package will improve the passenger experience by having more reliable trains and fewer delays.

www.gov.uk

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The way that railway infrastructure is costed these days, just how far will £72mln go? There's something like 91 railway stations in Greater Manchester aren't there, that's not that much per station if every one is to have some of the money spent on it.

 

[The Planner]

The way that railway infrastructure is costed these days, just how far will £72mln go? There's something like 91 railway stations in Greater Manchester aren't there, that's not that much per station if every one is to have some of the money spent on it.

You already know the answer, they wont be, the vast majority will go on Oxford Road.

 

[Snow1964]

You already know the answer, they wont be, the vast majority will go on Oxford Road.

As the DfT statement clearly states £72m is being spent on things like third platform at Salford Crescent, and no work will commence on Oxford Road, because it is going to be reappraised and consulted on in few months time, how can you say will be spent on Oxford Road.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm surprised a 3rd platform at Salford Crescent will cost as little as £72m.
What does "new entry/exit points at Victoria" mean? Something along platform 3?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cheap and nasty.

15/16 are needed (and this now means I guess the land can be built on so it'll be prevented forever), and Salford Crescent needs to be two islands with flyovers so there can be cross-platform interchange between Picc and Vic trains one way and Boltons and Athertons the other.

Very disappointing.

 

[fgwrich]

Cheap and nasty.

15/16 are needed (and this now means I guess the land can be built on so it'll be prevented forever), and Salford Crescent needs to be two islands with flyovers so there can be cross-platform interchange between Picc and Vic trains one way and Boltons and Athertons the other.

Very disappointing.

The sticking plaster approach continues. The worry is, as you mention, the land surrounding ends up being developed and the opportunity lost - eg, a reverse Birmingham New Street (and the Bullring development).

 

[TheManOnThe172]

First Euston, now Manchester - carefully-developed plans are abandoned on the basis that politicians can't cope with the reality of how expensive they will be. The announcement that there will be a search for a "new approach" is never accompanied by any hint about why they think that a new look might find a more palatable solution. If there is a major change in requirements, then share that and help everyone see why a re-evaluation is necessary. If there has been some technical change, then explain what that is. If the country is now too broke to afford the scheme, then say that.

But in the absence of any explanation, it feels as if the public are being taken for fools - a chunk of public money is to be wasted on a unicorn hunt that is primarily designed to put off the issue until the key players have moved on.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Nice to the can fly off down the road into the sunset, aided by the boot of the DfT.

 

[jonnyfan]

This looks to be the funding and delivery confirmed for Manchester Recovery Taskforce tranche 2. Which includes the additional platform at Salford Crescent, turnback sidings east of Victoria and at Salford Central, track alterations east of Victoria and increased passenger flow capacity at Victoria.
Good news to see Transport for North's plans coming into fruition. Next step CLC upgrade, Oxford Road re-model and Airport platform extensions.

 

[thealexweb]

What about the extra platforms for Salford Central that Network Rail took TfGM's money for but accidentally spent elsewhere.

 

[Sm5]

I wonder if HS2 will someday take use common sense and head over to Manchester Central, reducing Piccadillys role and thus negating the need for extra platforms ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if HS2 will someday take use common sense and head over to Manchester Central, reducing Piccadillys role and thus negating the need for extra platforms ?

Makes no sense. Why create a need to interchange across multiple stations?

It's 13/14 that are the issue, not the main trainshed.

 

[CdBrux]

Cheap and nasty.

15/16 are needed (and this now means I guess the land can be built on so it'll be prevented forever), and Salford Crescent needs to be two islands with flyovers so there can be cross-platform interchange between Picc and Vic trains one way and Boltons and Athertons the other.

Very disappointing.

What difference, on top of this package, would they make? My impression is the assumptions behind the original plan of the northern hub have been shown to be more or less unworkable so it could well be a lot of money to make little difference, certainly in terms of capacity which was the initial objective IIRC. If the objectives have changed to something more workable then it follows the solutions may also change.

 

[InOban]

My understanding us that the capacity issues, which led to the timetable collapse, lie with the mess of flat junctions in the Salford area, not with the Castlefield corridor.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My understanding us that the capacity issues, which led to the timetable collapse, lie with the mess of flat junctions in the Salford area, not with the Castlefield corridor.

The problem is that if a train has to stop for an extended period for whatever reason it delays the whole North West. Plus the number of passengers on the platform. (The latter, which is by far the greater issue, could be dealt with by rebuilding them to wide side platforms, same as Liverpool Central).

 

[WatcherZero]

I'm surprised a 3rd platform at Salford Crescent will cost as little as £72m.
What does "new entry/exit points at Victoria" mean? Something along platform 3?

Another station entrance adjacent to the River Irwell to the end of platform 3 has been mooted in the past, but with that budget they are probably just going to go for something cheap and useless like adding a bridge between the overbridge at the eastern end of the platforms that no one uses and the ring road's dual carriageway.

 

[Geeves]

Since the last timetable change the need for 15 and 16 has definitely been reduced. Improvements around Victoria unpicking the terrible layout at the east end is a good investment as are the additional sidings.

As for the Crescent it's not a huge job. The new platform goes on the bypass loop and the station was always designed to have steps and a lift going down from the current station building. At Victoria I would imagine a new entrance will head out towards Cheetham Hill Road bridge.

 

[dunc695]

Since the last timetable change the need for 15 and 16 has definitely been reduced. Improvements around Victoria unpicking the terrible layout at the east end is a good investment as are the additional sidings.

As for the Crescent it's not a huge job. The new platform goes on the bypass loop and the station was always designed to have steps and a lift going down from the current station building. At Victoria I would imagine a new entrance will head out towards Cheetham Hill Road bridge.

I'd imagine the new turnbacks at Salford Central would run alongside the Hope St freight line as far as Ordsall Lane (the site of slow lines until 1989) and accessed via the existing turnout at Central?

 

[Pub]

Being covered on BBC North west local news. Andy Burnham GM Mayor said he had not been prewarned of the Picc. cancellation.

 

[david1212]

Cheap and nasty.

15/16 are needed (and this now means I guess the land can be built on so it'll be prevented forever), and Salford Crescent needs to be two islands with flyovers so there can be cross-platform interchange between Picc and Vic trains one way and Boltons and Athertons the other.

Very disappointing.

As we discussed some time ago just building the Ordsall Chord without platforms 15 & 16 at Piccadilly significantly reduced the benefits. For the full benefit additional tracks needed too but they are never going to happen in the current financial climate.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Andy Burnham GM Mayor said he had not been prewarned of the Picc. cancellation.

Probably because he would've (rightfully) gone to the press first. P15 & 16 are needed to prevent knock on delays to other services and their cancellation is silly and typical of the dft.

 

[tomuk]

Probably because he would've (rightfully) gone to the press first. P15 & 16 are needed to prevent knock on delays to other services and their cancellation is silly and typical of the dft.

P15 & P16 are pretty useless without wider supporting infrastructure across the Manchester Area, they are no good if trains can't arrive at them or depart from them to a ready terminus. Of course there is some DfT parsimony invloved but it is really the outcome of back to basics logical approach of the Manchester Recovery Taskforce.

 

[M60lad]

When will works start on the extra platform/turnback sidings at Salford Crescent and Manchester Victoria? Will it be sometime next year and what blockades will be needed?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Probably because he would've (rightfully) gone to the press first. P15 & 16 are needed to prevent knock on delays to other services and their cancellation is silly and typical of the dft.

It's a silly half billion pounds the DfT/Treasury does not have.
The "Manchester Hub" had a long gestation period, and things have changed since it was given partial approval (for the Ordsall Chord, Victoria/Airport upgrades etc).
I don't think Network Rail were ready at Piccadilly/Oxford Road at the point where money might have been available, but the prospects of approval declined thereafter.
We now have a notional plan to build HS2 to Manchester, which will free up capacity on the approach to Piccadilly from the south.
If NPR also gets built using the HS2 access, there will be more capacity on cross-Manchester routes away from the Castlefield corridor.

I haven't seen anything on the once-promised "digital signalling" solution for Castlefield.
The TPU ETCS scheme seemingly won't extend west of Stalybridge.

 

[childwallblues]

When will works start on the extra platform/turnback sidings at Salford Crescent and Manchester Victoria? Will it be sometime next year and what blockades will be needed?

Are there not turn back sidings already at Salford Crescent? If not what are those on the Atherton Line?
From my observations the only terminators at Victoria during the day use Platforms 1/2. All other trains run through. In peak hour there are some terminators from Liverpool and Wigan which are electric powered and could easily run through to Stalybridge when the OHL is switched on.

 

[The Planner]

When will works start on the extra platform/turnback sidings at Salford Crescent and Manchester Victoria? Will it be sometime next year and what blockades will be needed?

2025.

 

[Viscount702]

I thought those works were to be finished in 2025. What is not clear is where the turn back sidings at Salford Central and to the east of Victoria are to be located

 

[Geeves]

Are there not turn back sidings already at Salford Crescent? If not what are those on the Atherton Line?

These sidings are useful only in times of absolutely everything else being tried emergency affair. There's no official walking route, no lights just rough ground so can't be used in regular service (currently).

As for sidings at Vic we had heard maybe something on the old loop line viaduct with access from 5 and 6.

 

[The Planner]

I thought those works were to be finished in 2025. What is not clear is where the turn back sidings at Salford Central and to the east of Victoria are to be located

Salford ones are two sidings in between the Hope St sidings and the down Salford. The Brewery turn back is between Miles Platting Jn and Brewery Jn off the Down Rochdale.