Manchester - Stalybridge Electrification

[faltskog36abba]

At Man Vic is there any form of basement level that could be used?

There is a huge area underneath Victoria stations buffet bar, When I worked there ten years ago-There were porters rooms,a scullery, offices, store rooms, an empty loading bay, all in a sorry state that haven't been used for years. There is also the old Brsa social club over the road that was connected to the station via stairs and a tunnel near where the old gents toilets were, The only problem is the many millions that it would cost to renovate these areas to be used once again.

 

[edwin_m]

If it were to happen if would be Blackburn. From Blackburn it'd still be quicker to change for the Airport at Salford Crescent though, or even Victoria. Currently it seems unlikely there will be room for anything beyond the franchise requirements through Oxford Road and Piccadilly, if indeed those can be accommodated reliably without the promised infrastructure improvements.

This is presumably the Todmorden Curve service. Although it might start at Blackburn for operational convenience and to provide some extra local links, I'd guess the quicker alternatives for Blackburn mean that most of the Manchester passengers are to/from Accrington, Burnley (Manchester Road) and south therof.

 

[wrinkley]

Travelled Victoria to Stalybridge today, there are long lengths of empty ducting on the floor and trunking on posts. Is this for the 25kV supply from Stalybridge or for signal cables.

 

[IanXC]

Travelled Victoria to Stalybridge today, there are long lengths of empty ducting on the floor and trunking on posts. Is this for the 25kV supply from Stalybridge or for signal cables.

Both are currently underway. There is the Ashton Moss resignalling project, and the 'extension lead' works.

 

[Foggycorner]

the 25 Kv cable route is marked on the side of the route ducting as such so as not to be confused with normal signalling cable route

 

[snowball]

Pictures eastward from Victoria posted by Freel07 on SSC:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=144679016&postcount=3971

 

[billh]

Both are currently underway. There is the Ashton Moss resignalling project, and the 'extension lead' works.

Crossed the Denton Jct to Ashton Moss line next to the M60 today. I saw a lot of new concrete ducting stacked and set in place along the line. I was most interested to see a large steel staging presumably for location cabinets behind the Ashton Fire Station. I am convinced that the staging is built into the brick recess into the low embankment that was the site of Ashton Moss Colliery Sidings signal box, closed nearly sixty years ago. Looking through rose tinted specs one could believe the new construction was the base for a new 'box.

 

[Mollman]

There's a track lower still to be done, this could be for that. There's a series of weekend blocks East of Vic over the next few months which should see more steel erected.

You are correct sir:
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...chester-victoria-closed-to-trains-over-easter

 

[snowball]

From Mollman's link:

Manchester Victoria station will be closed to trains over the Easter weekend 30 March - 2 April 2018 so that Network Rail can prepare a section of the railway for electric trains.

As part of the Great North Rail Project work will take place around platforms five and six and will involve lowering and realigning existing track under Cheetham Hill road bridge. This will result in no trains being able to access or depart the station. Bus replacement services will be in operation.

The station building will remain open and Metrolink services will be running as normal from the station.

Normal services will resume on Tuesday 3 April 2018.

We've already had one round of track lowering under Cheetham Hill Road bridge, a few years ago when the through platforms were wired. By about 170mm if I remember correctly. Presumably the new lot is just for the tracks leading to the bay platforms.

 

[twpsaesneg]

From Mollman's link:



We've already had one round of track lowering under Cheetham Hill Road bridge, a few years ago when the through platforms were wired. By about 170mm if I remember correctly. Presumably the new lot is just for the tracks leading to the bay platforms.

No, Platforms 5 & 6, Rochdale Fasts. They've been deferred a few times now but can't be again.

 

[snowball]

Modern Railways, Feb, page 13, says the feeder station near Stalybridge was commissioned in December.

 

[snowball]

No, Platforms 5 & 6, Rochdale Fasts. They've been deferred a few times now but can't be again.

Thanks. I always assumed they were done last time.

 

[Grumpy]

Apologies if this seems a naïve question, but why is it necessary to electrify east of the platforms i.e. under Cheetham Hill road bridge? If only diesel services are to operate eastwards why cant any electric arrivals from the west simply reverse as at a dead end station?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Modern Railways, Feb, page 13, says the feeder station near Stalybridge was commissioned in December.

Yes I noticed this last night and was going to comment as such but forgot. It is at Heyrod yes?

 

[Starmill]

Apologies if this seems a naïve question, but why is it necessary to electrify east of the platforms i.e. under Cheetham Hill road bridge? If only diesel services are to operate eastwards why cant any electric arrivals from the west simply reverse as at a dead end station?

This is what currently happens. The new works will allow electric trains to shunt east of the station.

 

[snowball]

Apologies if this seems a naïve question, but why is it necessary to electrify east of the platforms i.e. under Cheetham Hill road bridge? If only diesel services are to operate eastwards why cant any electric arrivals from the west simply reverse as at a dead end station?

They seem to have been managing up to now but I suppose the current works will give a bit of operational flexibility by allowing electric trains to change platforms without getting in the way of trains arriving/departing to/from the west. For example an electric train could be parked in one of the bays if necessary. The work will enable Network Rail to tick off Victoria as a completely electrified station

 

[snowball]

It is at Heyrod yes?

Yes. The MR piece also uses Joseph's terminology, "extension lead".

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes. The MR piece also uses Joseph's terminology, "extension lead".

Yes I forgot - I noticed that too - unless of course Modern Railways read these forums and got the terminology from here.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Apologies if this seems a naïve question, but why is it necessary to electrify east of the platforms i.e. under Cheetham Hill road bridge? If only diesel services are to operate eastwards why cant any electric arrivals from the west simply reverse as at a dead end station?

There is a reversing siding west of Victoria (next to the old Exchange station), where Liverpool trains park up.
However it's not reachable from P5/6 where Bolton route trains normally arrive.
Victoria will need all the flexibility it muster for the new timetable.
There's no reversing siding east of Victoria, just the 4 main running lines and the 2 east-facing bays.
The bays will see less use in the future, so maybe they will be used to park up EMUs between jobs.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is a huge area underneath Victoria stations buffet bar, When I worked there ten years ago-There were porters rooms,a scullery, offices, store rooms, an empty loading bay, all in a sorry state that haven't been used for years. There is also the old Brsa social club over the road that was connected to the station via stairs and a tunnel near where the old gents toilets were, The only problem is the many millions that it would cost to renovate these areas to be used once again.

Has any recent "general" upgrading work been carried out in those disused areas in recent times?

 

[twpsaesneg]

There is a reversing siding west of Victoria (next to the old Exchange station), where Liverpool trains park up.
However it's not reachable from P5/6 where Bolton route trains normally arrive.
Victoria will need all the flexibility it muster for the new timetable.
There's no reversing siding east of Victoria, just the 4 main running lines and the 2 east-facing bays.
The bays will see less use in the future, so maybe they will be used to park up EMUs between jobs.

In all honesty I don't think there will be routine use of the East side electrification - the gradient there is 1:47 which isn't the most desirable conditions to change ends. However it will give the flexibility to put away a 769 if it fails to complete the changeover to diesel and has another unit behind preventing withdrawal to the West.
In addition arguably the most technically complex bit of the Manchester to Stalybridge section will have been electrified which is a big plus - future works will not need to have special provision for DC stray current since they will be outside of the Metro zone of influence and shouldn't need a Metrolink shutdown either, which many of the structures being landed in this current work phase do.

 

[lejog]

There is a reversing siding west of Victoria (next to the old Exchange station), where Liverpool trains park up.
However it's not reachable from P5/6 where Bolton route trains normally arrive.
Victoria will need all the flexibility it muster for the new timetable.
There's no reversing siding east of Victoria, just the 4 main running lines and the 2 east-facing bays.
The bays will see less use in the future, so maybe they will be used to park up EMUs between jobs.

There is a "reversing siding" or track used as such east of Victoria at Brewery Junction e.g. see 5J38 1548 Manchester Victoria - Manchester Victoria (NT), although not reachable by EMUs under the current plans. There are opportunities to build more if ever required.

However in the planned May timetable there is only 1 EMU per hour into Victoria from Preston and in normal operation it reverses in Platform 5, leaving 5 mins after it arrives. I certainly hope there's a minimum use of the points under the wires as that would just block the eastern approaches to the station.

 

[CdBrux]

However in the planned May timetable there is only 1 EMU per hour into Victoria from Preston and in normal operation it reverses in Platform 5, leaving 5 mins after it arrives. I certainly hope there's a minimum use of the points under the wires as that would just block the eastern approaches to the station.

To the layman here it does seem a strange prioritisation of resources to do this, admittedly quite small, bit now. I wonder if there is a bit of politics in play from NR to reduce the cost of future Stalybridge electrification and give it a better chance of approval

 

[edwin_m]

It may be that this is insurance in case something goes wrong on one of the flat junctions between Salford Crescent and Castlefield and they have to send all the electrics into Victoria instead of via Piccadilly.

 

[snowball]

Remember that less than a year ago NR were still saying in public that the whole of Victoria to Stalybridge would be electrified by the end of 2017. That scheme was cut back at the last minute to 10% of its former track miles. So it seems a bit mean to quibble about the remaining bit.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Remember that less than a year ago NR were still saying in public that the whole of Victoria to Stalybridge would be electrified by the end of 2017. That scheme was cut back at the last minute to 10% of its former track miles. So it seems a bit mean to quibble about the remaining bit.

Maybe the debate last year was "How much can we do before May 2018 when Bolton/Blackpool is ready", and cut back accordingly.
Now they've got more time, but no plan!

 

[Elecman]

Maybe the debate last year was "How much can we do before May 2018 when Bolton/Blackpool is ready", and cut back accordingly.
Now they've got more time, but no plan!

j

And more importantly no money!

 

[snowball]

A lot of recent Network Rail publicity about closures and disruption avoids using words like "electrify" in explaining what the work is for, but this about the Sunday closures at Victoria is an exception:

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/964518759175217153

 

[coxxy]

I wonder of people would be happy about Vic being closed for "electrification" if they understood that only about 200 yards was being electrified..

 

[childwallblues]

This is what currently happens. The new works will allow electric trains to shunt east of the station.

If there were any to go there. The service from Liverpool ceases in May.