Manchester - Stalybridge Electrification

[snowball]

Pictures at Ashton posted on SSC by Freel07:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140717658&postcount=3536

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hands up who would like James Hodge's job on the TP upgrade?
Hopefully what he wants to do will get approved one day.
The Q&A was also illuminating.
The impression I got was that most of the route needs renewing and is "not TSI compliant", and is supporting the current level of services at the top of its capability.
The slides also talk about planning for in-cab signalling for fast services, meaning ETCS in 802s.
Did I hear him say the MML upgrade had TSR's only 3 weeks after line speeds were increased?
An excellent video - one can only guess what they wanted to say but couldn't because of the NR communications censor!
Had to laugh at the West Yorks Combined Authority comment (wanting "stops every quarter of a mile"!).

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Hands up who would like James Hodges' job on the TP upgrade?

I already do, but on other projects ....

 

[Ploughman]

Pictures at Ashton posted on SSC by Freel07:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140717658&postcount=3536

The 2.0m to Cope edge seems a bit inaccurate unless it is for a future yellow line.
If not a gauging issue may be looming as that red line looks about 50mm wide.

 

[snowball]

More pictures at Ashton by Freel07:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140791365&postcount=3543

 

[snowball]

And yet more:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140815273&postcount=3544

And a press release:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...or-engineering-work-to-improve-journey-times/

Ashton-under-Lyne station will close between Saturday 8 and Sunday 31 July while engineering work takes place to enable better journeys between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge.

The work is part of the Great North Rail Project which will see over £1bn invested in the railway across the north as part of the national Railway Upgrade Plan.

Network Rail engineers will be working round-the-clock over the three week closure to rebuild the railway bridge over Turner Lane and replace and realign over two miles of track.

Northern services will be replaced by buses between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge. Trains will continue to run between Stalybridge and Manchester Piccadilly.

Nick Brown, Network Rail’s project manager, said: “The railway corridor on which Ashton station sits is currently narrow with many curves which restrict the speed that trains can travel. Replacing the bridge deck and realigning the track will result in smoother and straighter track meaning trains will be able to travel faster which, in the long run, means more frequent services on the route.

“I would like to thank passengers for their patience while we improve the railway in their area.”

Liam Sumpter, regional director for Northern, said: “Fantastic improvements are coming for our customers in the north west, including those travelling through Ashton-under-Lyne; with quicker journeys, new and refurbished trains and more frequent services. Before we can deliver that, essential large scale engineering work has to take place and we thank our customers for their patience while this happens.”

This is part of a wider scheme on the line which will not only enable better journey times between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge, but also allow the increase of services from May 2018.

To find out more information visit url]www.networkrail.co.uk/Ashton/url]

 

[snowball]

And another press release, announcing a meeting at a pub:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...more-about-ashton-under-lyne-station-closure/

Tameside residents can find out more about the three week closure of Ashton-under-Lyne station at a public drop-in session next Monday (Monday 3 July).

Ashton-under-Lyne station is closing between Saturday 8 and Sunday 31 July while engineering work takes place to enable better journeys between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge.

The work is part of the Great North Rail Project which will see over £1bn invested in the railway across the north as part of the national Railway Upgrade Plan.

Network Rail engineers will be working round-the-clock over the three week closure to rebuild the railway bridge over Turner Lane and replace and realign over two miles of track. Turner Lane will be closed and an alternative pedestrian route will be clearly signposted.

Northern services will be replaced by buses between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge. Trains will continue to run between Stalybridge and Manchester Piccadilly.

The event will take place at The Prince of Orange Pub, 109 Warrington Street, Ashton-under-Lyne, OL6 6DW between 4pm and 7pm, where members of Network Rail’s project team will be on hand to answer questions about this work.

Nick Brown, Network Rail’s project manager, said: “The railway corridor on which Ashton station sits is currently narrow with many curves which restrict the speed that trains can travel. Replacing the bridge deck and realigning the track will result in smoother and straighter track meaning trains will be able to travel faster which, in the long run, means more frequent services on the route.

“I would like to thank passengers for their patience while we improve the railway in their area.”

Liam Sumpter, regional director for Northern, said: “Fantastic improvements are coming for our customers in the north west, including those travelling through Ashton-under-Lyne; with quicker journeys, new and refurbished trains and more frequent services. Before we can deliver that, essential large scale engineering work has to take place and we thank our customers for their patience while this happens.”

This is part of a wider scheme on the line which will not only enable better journey times between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge, but also allow the increase of services from May 2018.

To find out more information visit www.networkrail.co.uk/Ashton

 

[adrock1976]

A quick question - do these works include Stalybridge - Guide Bridge (maybe onwards to Heaton Morris Junction), or is that part of a separate project?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A quick question - do these works include Stalybridge - Guide Bridge (maybe onwards to Heaton Morris Junction), or is that part of a separate project?

That's part of the main TP electrification scheme, so will come later.
No plan to wire Guide Bridge-Heaton Norris.
The Ordsall Chord rather removes any need for a direct electrified Stalybridge-Stockport route.

 

[edwin_m]

No plan to wire Guide Bridge-Heaton Norris.
The Ordsall Chord rather removes any need for a direct electrified Stalybridge-Stockport route.

In principle it would be helpful for freight, but few if any of the trains that use it would be able to convert to electric haulage if it was wired.

 

[Hophead]

I can't help noticing that, once again, the word "electrification" is completely absent from this press release.

There's mention of "£1bn invested in the railway across the north", "Great North Rail Project"; the project also brings "straighter track" as well as "more frequent services". But the "e" word? Not a single mention; not even "eventual or forthcoming, or planned electrification".

Am I reading too much into this? Seems a strange omission.

 

[snowball]

From TfGM committee papers (thanks to Freel07 on SSC for drawing attention):

18. Ashton-under-Lyne works
18.1 As part of “The Great North Rail Project”, a major investment and an
integral part of both the North West and TransPennine route upgrades, a
package of works is being delivered by Network Rail at Ashton-underLyne
station.
18.2 The operational railway works, which affect the route between
Stalybridge and Manchester Victoria, will include: replacement of two
bridge decks on Turner Lane, works to abutment walls on Katherine
Street Tunnel and Oldham Road overbridge and 3.5 km of track
renewals. The current track alignment means a severe restriction in
speed to train services, the works listed above will address allowing
reduced journey times between Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield/
Leeds.
18.3 Ashton station will be closed with no trains between Victoria and
Stalybridge between 8 July and 31 July 2017, and will benfit from new
LED lighting (platforms and subway) customer information screens, ticket
machine and signage, as well as better pigeon netting, redecoration, and
a remodelled ticket office and waiting room.
18.4 Following the station works, Overhead Line Equipment (OLE) will be
installed.

https://www.greatermanchester-ca.go...l_rail_service_performance_and_station_update

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

From TfGM committee papers (thanks to Freel07 on SSC for drawing attention):
https://www.greatermanchester-ca.go...l_rail_service_performance_and_station_update

That's well and good, but it won't mean much until the junction speed from Victoria at Stalybridge is increased (currently 25mph, 50mph towards Guide Bridge).

 

[snowball]

That's well and good, but it won't mean much until the junction speed from Victoria at Stalybridge is increased (currently 25mph, 50mph towards Guide Bridge).

Pity about the 2012 Stalybridge reconstruction that didn't allow for the main route switching to Victoria.

 

[snowball]

I can't help noticing that, once again, the word "electrification" is completely absent from this press release.

Maybe that's because NR keeps being told to be more customer focussed, and whereas increases in speed, frequency or train length are assumed to mean something to passengers, words like "electrification" are seen as only of interest to techies and enthusiasts.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Maybe that's because NR keeps being told to be more customer focussed, and whereas increases in speed, frequency or train length are assumed to mean something to passengers, words like "electrification" are seen as only of interest to techies and enthusiasts.

Which is why bimodes are virtually orgasmic to politicians and the treasury. Shiny new trains, increased capacity etc etc

 

[Ploughman]

However in para 18.4 the E word is mentioned.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

However in para 18.4 the E word is mentioned.

Well spotted sir, I missed that

 

[swt_passenger]

Maybe that's because NR keeps being told to be more customer focussed, and whereas increases in speed, frequency or train length are assumed to mean something to passengers, words like "electrification" are seen as only of interest to techies and enthusiasts.

I think the PR wonks have a compulsory autocorrect feature that changes 'electric' to 'faster, greener, cleaner'. Has a side effect of filling space and increasing their achieved word count in press releases.

 

[coxxy]

Surely the gradients will have some impact on the efficiency of the bi mode 319's.. a 142 struggles to hit 40 mph climbing up towards miles playing junction as it is.. then you've got the gradients climbing up to Ashton Moss in both directions.

Must admit I need to have a read about the flex 319's to see what the capabilities are expected to be..

 

[snowball]

I think the PR wonks have a compulsory autocorrect feature that changes 'electric' to 'faster, greener, cleaner'. Has a side effect of filling space and increasing their achieved word count in press releases.

Yesterday I came accross a page on the London Reconnections website that advises reading press releases from the bottom up. Applied to that TfGM paper you would see the bit about electrification first.

 

[edwin_m]

Surely the gradients will have some impact on the efficiency of the bi mode 319's.. a 142 struggles to hit 40 mph climbing up towards miles playing junction as it is.. then you've got the gradients climbing up to Ashton Moss in both directions.

Must admit I need to have a read about the flex 319's to see what the capabilities are expected to be..

Porterbrook claims similar performance overall, but the laws of physics suggest that with fewer axles motored (than a 4-car 150) they will be slower off the mark and less able to cope with severe gradients or poor adhesion.

 

[snowball]

Two points:

1) Latest pictures of the work at Ashton by Freel07 on SSC:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=141059605&postcount=3571

2) As Mordac and GRALISTAIR have pointed out elsewhere, the new udate to the Enhancements Delivery Plan is now out:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan-June-2017.pdf

Where the previous version had electrification from Victoria to Stalybridge for completion by December 2017, the new one merely has Victoria to the Miles Platting area for completion by May 2018. There's a footnote to say the exact extent is to be determined. Miles Platting to Stalybridge has dropped out.

BMIFlyer says here it's because there's no money left and to enable NR to speed up other projects in the meantime.

They are not good at maintaining the overall consistency of the Enhancements Delivery Plan when bits are changed. The section on TP electrification still says it will interface to the NW programme at Stalybridge.

It appears that after May next year, for at least the remaining year of CP5, there will be no electrification work going on in the north of England, as Manchester-Preston-Blackpool and Victoria-Miles Platting will have been finished by then, and if there's no money for Stalybridge in CP5 it seems unlikely there'd be any for Windermere or Lostock-Wigan.

 

[deltic08]

Two points:

1) Latest pictures of the work at Ashton by Freel07 on SSC:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=141059605&postcount=3571

2) As Mordac and GRALISTAIR have pointed out elsewhere, the new udate to the Enhancements Delivery Plan is now out:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan-June-2017.pdf

Where the previous version had electrification from Victoria to Stalybridge for completion by December 2017, the new one merely has Victoria to the Miles Platting area for completion by May 2018. There's a footnote to say the exact extent is to be determined. Miles Platting to Stalybridge has dropped out.

BMIFlyer says here it's because there's no money left and to enable NR to speed up other projects in the meantime.

They are not good at maintaining the overall consistency of the Enhancements Delivery Plan when bits are changed. The section on TP electrification still says it will interface to the NW programme at Stalybridge..

Latest I heard this week is that if target times of 40 minute to Leeds and 62 minutes to York from Manchester can be achieved by diesel traction then there will be no wires saving £1.3b. Most astonishing announcement is alignment between Huddersfield and Dewsbury for 125mph running.

 

[Starmill]

Most astonishing announcement is alignment between Huddersfield and Dewsbury for 125mph running.

hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:

 

[YorkshireBear]

Latest I heard this week is that if target times of 40 minute to Leeds and 62 minutes to York from Manchester can be achieved by diesel traction then there will be no wires saving £1.3b. Most astonishing announcement is alignment between Huddersfield and Dewsbury for 125mph running.

That is indeed true.

They now are working on an Output and deciding the most cost effective way of meeting it. Said output is as you say.

125mph running i think might be a red herring. I saw 100mph running. But i could be wrong of course. It included four tracking so i doubt the alignment would give you 125mph.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Why wire to Miles Platting area then?

 

[edwin_m]

Why wire to Miles Platting area then?

Bi-modes can get them up to speed and up the hill on electric, while avoiding pollution in the central area, then switch to diesel.

The fly in the ointment is that they'll probably want to start the diesels in Victoria so they aren't marooned elsewhere in the event they don't start.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Where the previous version had electrification from Victoria to Stalybridge for completion by December 2017, the new one merely has Victoria to the Miles Platting area for completion by May 2018. There's a footnote to say the exact extent is to be determined. Miles Platting to Stalybridge has dropped out.

Probably as far as Manchester Victoria East Jn!
So that EMUs can park and reverse east of the station.

All very worrying.
I can understand rescheduling, and also waiting for the TP and NPR plans to develop before committing, but not being canned completely.
I guess it's much cheaper to order another batch of class 769 conversions instead in the short term.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The only positive, actually it might be a main reason for doing so, is that the route between Victoria and Stalybridge can now receive full TRU treatment instead of having to renew the OLE again....