Manchester-Whitby advice

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dggar

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My daughter intends spending a week in Whitby with three friends. Dates not fixed yet but will probably be last week in August.(Saturday to Saturday)

They will be travelling from Manchester and all have 16-25 railcards.

Where are the best places to split fares?

Is there any advantage in going via Sheffield/Doncaster rather than via Leeds?

Thanks in advance
 
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Nym

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Personally I'd say splitting at Middlesbrough and getting advance purchase TPE fares (via their website student offers thing, gives you more discount) would be the cheapest way to do it. I think that would work out cheaper than groupsave for four of them, although I'm sure I'll be corrected.
 

hairyhandedfool

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I can't comment for splits, but I would say make sure you have a decent connection time at Middlesborough. From experience I know Northern will NOT hold the Whitby train for a late connection and they are not at all frequent.
 

mikeg

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You may want to get a York to Whitby Bus ticket and travel on the train only as far as York. This ticket is available when you buy your train ticket at the station. This will typically be able bit faster than the Esk valley line. However the Esk Valley line is a nice line.:)
 

SickyNicky

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I'm not sure how much joy you'll have with GroupSave tickets. Most fares will be priced by Transpennine Express or CrossCountry, neither of whom do GroupSave.

For walk-up fares, there's very little benefit in splitting. York saves a pound or so, Church Fenton a little more (but that would be awfully inconvenient).

I would take Nym's advice and look for advances from Manchester to Middlesborough (which would attract the current special offer) and then Anytime Returns from Middlesbrough to Whitby.
 

Nym

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You may also want to look into rangers and rovers on the Esk Valley Line if they want to stop off anywhere on route.

Also, since you can only buy the via Bus via York tickets at stations, this will not attract the lower priced advance fares.

Although it is possible to use an Advance Purchase fare as I previously discribed to get as far as York or Leeds and then use the Yorkshire Coastliner (Travsdev) service to Whitby. Although coastliner services to whitby are only three times daily and are a bit of a long slog after Malton.
 

cuccir

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Firstly, if they're buying advance tickets, they'll save extra thanks to their railcards (a 50% rather than 33% discount) by buying through http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/train-tickets/student-discounts/ - they need to go through that link to get the discount.

Doing that, then, I'd have though the cheapest AND fastest option would be to get a Transpennine express advance ticket to Scarborough: there are a number of direct trains a day. Picking a random Friday in July (13th) there are currently advance fares at £6.45 each way. They can travel for £15.20 each way first class too.

Simply follow the National Rail booking horizons page and check when the desired dates of travel come up. Reinforce to them that they must get the booked train - otherwise their tickets are invalid!

After that, the Arriva 93 bus is fairly regular between Scarborough and Whitby. Not sure of the cost but I can't imagine it being too much. Even if it costs them a fiver each way, that's a total return price of around £22.45 if they can get those cheap advance tickets.

Edit - This thread suggests that the bus will be £5 each way. Given that there's four of them, a taxi might prove better value - and it would have the advantage of getting them to Scarborough station reliably on time for the return journey! Splitting with advances at Middlesborough is actually a little cheaper, but the Scarborough option should be faster. There's also a half hourly bus service, compared to 4 trains a day!
 
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6Gman

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After that, the Arriva 93 bus is fairly regular between Scarborough and Whitby. Not sure of the cost but I can't imagine it being too much. Even if it costs them a fiver each way, that's a total return price of around £22.45 if they can get those cheap advance tickets.

!

I'm sure I saw a letter in Buses magazine recently complaining that the 93 is regularly, seriously overcrowded!
 

Nym

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It is indeed, and compared to a pacer, the quality of the Whitby - Scarbrough bus is not that high, indeed the Whitby - Middlesbrough bus is much nicer.

If I had to make this journey as cheaply and comfortably as possible, I'd do the option I discribed, Student Special AP from Manchester Piccadilly to Middlesbrough and then from Middlesbrough to Whitby on the Esk Valley Line.
 

button_boxer

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My daughter intends spending a week in Whitby with three friends. Dates not fixed yet but will probably be last week in August.(Saturday to Saturday)

18th to 24th August is folk festival week. This may be a pro or con depending on your point of view...
 

Oscar

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Not sure of the cost but I can't imagine it being too much. Even if it costs them a fiver each way, that's a total return price of around £22.45 if they can get those cheap advance tickets.
I've used the 93 a few times before and I'm pretty sure that the maximum fare applies to Scarborough - Whitby. www.getdown.org.uk/bus says:
Maximum fare: £5.20 (single),
£7.00 (day return) - supplied by a site user, April 2011
(my bold). £7 Adult / £13 2 adults + 3 under 14s (Family) Arriva North East All Zones Day ticket

It is indeed, and compared to a pacer, the quality of the Whitby - Scarbrough bus is not that high, indeed the Whitby - Middlesbrough bus is much nicer.
I imagine that the Whitby - Middlesbrough bus you are thinking of is alone the 93 which runs Scarborough - Whitby - Middlesbrough. There is also a 5/5A from Whitby to Middlesbrough but this takes longer and as far as I am aware the buses are fairly similar.

On Saturdays in August I would imagine that it is likely that your daughter and her friends will have to stand on the 93 (or possibly even wait for the next one - they come every 30 minutes at that time of year). If they go straight to the bus station outside Scarborough Station from when the train arrives at around xx.25/xx.30 for the bus at xx.40 and get in the queue they should at least get on though. The bus starts at Scarborough. The business of the bus depends very much on the weather - huge numbers of passengers do day trips from Scarborough to Whitby in good weather (to a large extent even in Winter too). The journey takes around one hour. The Esk Valley train similarly starts at Middlesbrough but is also known to get very busy (it was even full to standing when I last used in on a Friday in April) but if you get on at Middlesbrough I think you will get a seat. The Coastliner is unfortunately not much better in August and has left me behind before.
You can probably avoid the congestion if this is an issue by travelling from Middlesbrough/York/Scarborough to Whitby in the afternoon and back in the morning. Otherwise your daughter and friends may have to stand and will have to accept that they may have to wait for the next bus (in the case of York / Scarborough) in case of overcrowding.
 

Marton

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I would say make sure you have a decent connection time at Middlesborough. From experience I know Northern will NOT hold the Whitby train for a late connection and they are not at all frequent.

Just to point out it is Middlesbrough, only one 'o'.

I have known the last Middlesbrough - Whitby (M-Sat 1740) delayed for passengers on connections; I have also seen taxis provided. Somewhere here there is a thread which makes it clear a split ticket for one journey is that - one journey.

Experience suggests that the 1730 TPE arrival in Middlesbrough does make the 1740, and it is certainly listed as a valid connection.

Better to get all the tickets in advance and have the relevant page printed out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It is indeed, and compared to a pacer, the quality of the Whitby - Scarbrough bus is not that high, indeed the Whitby - Middlesbrough bus is much nicer.

If I had to make this journey as cheaply and comfortably as possible, I'd do the option I discribed, Student Special AP from Manchester Piccadilly to Middlesbrough and then from Middlesbrough to Whitby on the Esk Valley Line.

The Esk Valley is booked for 156s on all services beyond Nunthorpe. If the occasional Pacer gets beyond there it is a terrible journey
 
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hairyhandedfool

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Just to point out it is Middlesbrough, only one 'o'.

Oh yeah, I seem to be doing that sort of thing a lot recently.

....I have known the last Middlesbrough - Whitby (M-Sat 1740) delayed for passengers on connections; I have also seen taxis provided. Somewhere here there is a thread which makes it clear a split ticket for one journey is that - one journey.

Experience suggests that the 1730 TPE arrival in Middlesbrough does make the 1740, and it is certainly listed as a valid connection....

Well, in my case I allowed a 24 minute connection and found the train to Middlesbrough to cancelled at short notice. The next train to Middlesbrough missed the Whitby train by 6 minutes and, despite it being Northern that cancelled the connecting service because of a different Northern service (using a different Northern unit and crew) breaking down, they wouldn't hold the Whitby train because "it would hold up other services" which would've meant a few hours sitting around in Middlesbrough for the next one.
 

142094

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Last time I went to Whitby a few years ago, the service we were on had to wait at Battersby for the Whitby - Middlesbrough train to pass. I'd therefore hazard a guess that if the train from Middlesbrough to Whitby was delayed, it could cause problems with this movement, and lead to delays further up the line towards Nunthorpe.

All trains to Whitby are booked as 156s. I have travelled the line on a 142, back in 2006 IIRC on a summer Sunday working direct from Newcastle. 142s of course do get as far as Nunthorpe on Hexham - Nunthorpe services.
 

Oscar

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As far as I understand it the Esk Valley Development Company specifically asked for the 142 to be replaced by a 156 (which happened fairly recently).
Mon-Sat - only one 142 working 4 return journeys from Middlesbrough to Whitby; when NYMR is running to Whitby the NYMR take up the spare paths for the Glaisdale to Whitby sector (the trains only runs from Grosmont though of course); occasionally there can also be steam specials running as far west as Battersby for example.
Summer Sundays - more than one Northern unit on the Esk Valley Line at one time and they therefore need to use the passing points.
 

142094

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IIRC it might have been the County Council, due to the widespread use of the services for scholars.
 

Marton

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Last time I went to Whitby a few years ago, the service we were on had to wait at Battersby for the Whitby - Middlesbrough train to pass. I'd therefore hazard a guess that if the train from Middlesbrough to Whitby was delayed, it could cause problems with this movement, and lead to delays further up the line towards Nunthorpe.

Only on Sundays are there booked crossovers. This summer there is one crossing at Battersby and two at Glaisdale.

On weekdays one 156 goes there and back 4 times, although there is a crossing at Nunthorpe on the early train as the first Nunthorpe - Middlesbrough - Hexham service goes down to Nunthorpe ECS and waits fro the Whitby service before starting for Middlesbrough.
 

Clip

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Just to point out it is Middlesbrough, only one 'o'.

Is this sort of pedantry and petty point scoring really necessary? Its an internet forum and as much as people strive to get things right we always wont. Its the nature of things.

So I ask you - Why bother? If the intention and the understanding of what someone has posted is clear enough then why nit pick about spelling or indeed grammar?

Its a shame that this has become more prevalent on this forum since I first started to use it. I don't like it and whilst my own personal opinion it cant be good for other either
 

MikeWh

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Is this sort of pedantry and petty point scoring really necessary? Its an internet forum and as much as people strive to get things right we always wont. Its the nature of things.

So I ask you - Why bother? If the intention and the understanding of what someone has posted is clear enough then why nit pick about spelling or indeed grammar?

Its a shame that this has become more prevalent on this forum since I first started to use it. I don't like it and whilst my own personal opinion it cant be good for other either

Because it's the thin end of the wedge. Maybe there's not much difficulty in understanding the difference between Middlesborough and Middlesbrough, but sometimes an extra letter can completely change the meaning, like county becoming country. It's the same with grammar; adding or moving a punctuation mark can completely change the meaning. Witness the title of the award winning book on grammar "Eats, shoots and leaves". That comma changes the description from the eating habits of a panda to the actions of a bandit in cowboy country.

"It's only an internet forum" is one of my biggest pet hates, and I for one am very happy that the staff here try to keep up the standards.
 

sprinterguy

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Last time I went to Whitby a few years ago, the service we were on had to wait at Battersby for the Whitby - Middlesbrough train to pass. I'd therefore hazard a guess that if the train from Middlesbrough to Whitby was delayed, it could cause problems with this movement, and lead to delays further up the line towards Nunthorpe.
EDIT: Hadn't read page two when I originally posted this: I see that other posters have already answered this point!

On Mondays to Saturdays all the Whitby services are operated by a single unit that shuttles up and down between Middlesbrough and Whitby all day.

The summer only Sunday service is different: At a particular time of the day there are no less than three units working on the Whitby line! This must be a rare example of where a lines' rolling stock requirement is considerably higher on a Sunday than it is on any other day of the week. I recall passing other trains on the Whitby branch in the past as well, though I cannot recall whether this would have been on a Sunday or whether the weekday rolling stock utilisation was different then. Certainly, the rolling stock allocation has gone full circle in recent years: 142s used to be the regular traction on the Whitby line, while the Nunthorpe services saw a lot more 156s: Going back a few years, I used to aim to catch the 15:00 Newcastle to Nunthorpe back to Sunderland on a Saturday as you knew it was definitely going to be a 156.
 

Marton

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EDIT: I recall passing other trains on the Whitby branch in the past as well, though I cannot recall whether this would have been on a Sunday or whether the weekday rolling stock utilisation was different then.

Back in 1983 there was a much greater service. Guisborough Junction to Nunthorpe was still double track and I think Grosmont to Whitby may have been as well.

From the timing Battersby still had both platforms in use rather than 1st in last out as now.

The timetable is attached with crossings ringed.

Not sure when it changed, but the 1992 timetable is as it is now.
 

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142094

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Cheers for the info. I've only done the line on a Sunday, but should have know about the weekday workings, seeing as I was looking at the timetable the other day :-x

Funnily enough Victoria Wood was on 'Yesterday' with the Great Rail Journeys programme in 1995. 2x142s in Tyne and Wear PTE yellow on the Esk Valley line did look quite good.
 
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